Here Comes Vladamir Putin

Justgetnby said:
Thank you for Service Mac!

What would lead you to believe the most highly funded, most technologically advanced and highest staffed military is weak?
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Downsized personnel, more focus on ghays and trannies, broken equipment, no replacement equipment, no parts, people are over deployed, wore out.

What you hear of military funding goes to contractors, not the actual service.  The morale is busted bad.  People aren't staying in. 

Technology???  The Military is always about 20 years behind due to ending, testing, BS...I flew helicopters that had the basic power of a Commodore 64.  it was in place from early 80s till 2013 when I retired.  We replaced it but they started building that platform in the late 90s.  By the time it hit the fleet sure...it was the latest and greatest but it was basically 20 years old.

 
Sucks! We're considered the "MOST POWERFUL" Country in the world. Let's Go Brandon! Peace 

 
LegitDuner said:
I have a question for the military people  there was a Russian military strategist that said that Putin knows how tied our fighting is to electronics and he knows how to defeat our electronic systems, is that true? Went on to say that Putin thinks he can take us in a conventional war.

In other news, anybody hear about the Russian ship and the soldiers on the small Ukrainian Island?

"Russian ship... GO EFF YOURSELF"🤣

TRUE BADASSES! RIP
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This is a real threat.

Cyber is the new nuke.

Electronic attacks really mess things up.  We rely so heavily on communications.  All, most of the senior brass are "YES MEN" and require higher approval and without a way to reach out, they are useless.  They no longer make decisions and require higher authority to make the decisions so they don't accept responsibility if something goes wrong.  I mean come on...gotta make that next pay grade.  The US does have a robust cyber defense but so do they.  Our Air and surface assets are most vulnerable.  Subs are designed to be autonomous.  They are HIGHLY functional and protected.  Satellites...that's a whole other realm. 

 
Mac said:
Downsized personnel, more focus on ghays and trannies, broken equipment, no replacement equipment, no parts, people are over deployed, wore out.

What you hear of military funding goes to contractors, not the actual service.  The morale is busted bad.  People aren't staying in. 

Technology???  The Military is always about 20 years behind due to ending, testing, BS...I flew helicopters that had the basic power of a Commodore 64.  it was in place from early 80s till 2013 when I retired.  We replaced it but they started building that platform in the late 90s.  By the time it hit the fleet sure...it was the latest and greatest but it was basically 20 years old.
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you retired in 2013? its been that long, man it seems like yesterday you posted you were retiring.

 
zilla68 said:
you retired in 2013? its been that long, man it seems like yesterday you posted you were retiring.
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How do you think I feel?? :lol:

Going on 9 years!  I've only been back working for 2.

 
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I know this will be hard for some people, Trump is not innocent in all of this.  He withheld arms to Ukraine, he also threaten to pull out of NATO.............not sure this had much impact but it did weaken the West a bit.

One other thing, Putin saw this opportunity in 2014 or earlier, he has been working towards this direction for a long time. 

He also saw our country divided politically which makes us weaker as well.  He saw the opportunity, we aren't going to fight on the ground to protect Ukraine, too many variables that would f..ck us.

 
Cookie said:
I know this will be hard for some people, Trump is not innocent in all of this.  He withheld arms to Ukraine, he also threaten to pull out of NATO.............not sure this had much impact but it did weaken the West a bit.

One other thing, Putin saw this opportunity in 2014 or earlier, he has been working towards this direction for a long time. 

He also saw our country divided politically which makes us weaker as well.  He saw the opportunity, we aren't going to fight on the ground to protect Ukraine, too many variables that would f..ck us.
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I'm not a YAY Trump guy but...

- It boils down to, do they view the president as "weak".  Trump was a wild card.  Biden is weak.
- While not presented to the American people, Trump not giving arms to Ukraine could have been an agreement to not poke Russia.  Also, all arms sales to other countries are "supposed" to get UN Security Council approval...something Russian is a member of.
- NATO...Freaking joke!  I have been saying to pull out of NATO and the UN for decades.  All they do is use US hardware, troops and resources...PLUS...hardly pay a dime into to it.  NATO is a Cold War leftover.  They should be paying the US to give our support.  Same with the UN.  They view our membership as a way to control us and make us pay for their projects.
- I have to disagree.  Trump wasn't even in office and the left started protesting.  They protested, held bogus hearings, obstructed progress the entire 4 years.  I can't say Trump divided the country.  obama did!  Trump never had a chance.  Mind you...I can't stand "The Donald", but President Trump was the first President in my adult life to push agendas that I had wanted my entire life.  I wish he could have done more.  Still, take a look, the GOP has done NOTHING!  Not a f*cking thing to groom anyone for 2024.  So...Trump will run again.  The GOP drops this ball every time.  Plus, they need to update their platform.  America does not what an aging, rich, white guy.  

 
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Cookie said:
I know this will be hard for some people, Trump is not innocent in all of this.  He withheld arms to Ukraine, he also threaten to pull out of NATO.............not sure this had much impact but it did weaken the West a bit.

One other thing, Putin saw this opportunity in 2014 or earlier, he has been working towards this direction for a long time. 

He also saw our country divided politically which makes us weaker as well.  He saw the opportunity, we aren't going to fight on the ground to protect Ukraine, too many variables that would f..ck us.
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He more than saw it, I'm sure a lot of our current divide is thanks to his efforts.  Putin worked as a KGB officer in causing unrest early in his career.

Mac said:
This is a real threat.

Cyber is the new nuke.

Electronic attacks really mess things up.  We rely so heavily on communications.  All, most of the senior brass are "YES MEN" and require higher approval and without a way to reach out, they are useless.  They no longer make decisions and require higher authority to make the decisions so they don't accept responsibility if something goes wrong.  I mean come on...gotta make that next pay grade.  The US does have a robust cyber defense but so do they.  Our Air and surface assets are most vulnerable.  Subs are designed to be autonomous.  They are HIGHLY functional and protected.  Satellites...that's a whole other realm. 
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I think cyber attack wise, we're fine.  Proof of this: you never hear about a US cyber attack on anything other than one attack so amazing and successful it went beyond its intended target (Stuxnet).  A lesson was learned there I'm sure.

Just like everything we do culturally here vs. Russia and China, our cyber is a more elegant solution.  China/Russia use giant rooms full of script kiddies that just HULK SMASH chit into uselessness.  We employee some PhD that invented half the scripts those Russian/Chinese "cyber experts" use when he was in High School (aged 11, most likely) and only got better.  I've met some.  They're smart and creative.

Satellites and comms back to command?  While a lot of attention (and humor) has been pointed at Space Force, we have other solutions that've been used in actual combat theatres that have worked to save a lot of soldiers lives from ending up like the Lone Survivor. I don't know what the capabilities of other nations are, but I think we'd survive knocking satellites out better than most countries.  See here: https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/battlefield-airborne-communications-node-bacn/

Mac, you know the Navy well, but my understanding there is cutouts and lack of SATCOM back to command are common, making El Capitan de facto God while underway.  Has this changed a lot?

Morale is a problem, mainly because we've been sending our boys out to die in useless theatres without objective to beat up on third world locals while simultaneously befriending them.  

Yes men: we've had years of peace, which tends to create Gentlemen Officers interested in careers more than mission...  But we've had this in the past.  Sucks that some good men will die because of stupid commanders, but that's every war and while we have "affirmative action" they have a lot of the usual nepotism...  

 
Rockwood said:
He more than saw it, I'm sure a lot of our current divide is thanks to his efforts.  Putin worked as a KGB officer in causing unrest early in his career.

I think cyber attack wise, we're fine.  Proof of this: you never hear about a US cyber attack on anything other than one attack so amazing and successful it went beyond its intended target (Stuxnet).  A lesson was learned there I'm sure.

Just like everything we do culturally here vs. Russia and China, our cyber is a more elegant solution.  China/Russia use giant rooms full of script kiddies that just HULK SMASH chit into uselessness.  We employee some PhD that invented half the scripts those Russian/Chinese "cyber experts" use when he was in High School (aged 11, most likely) and only got better.  I've met some.  They're smart and creative.

Satellites and comms back to command?  While a lot of attention (and humor) has been pointed at Space Force, we have other solutions that've been used in actual combat theatres that have worked to save a lot of soldiers lives from ending up like the Lone Survivor. I don't know what the capabilities of other nations are, but I think we'd survive knocking satellites out better than most countries.  See here: https://www.northropgrumman.com/what-we-do/air/battlefield-airborne-communications-node-bacn/

Mac, you know the Navy well, but my understanding there is cutouts and lack of SATCOM back to command are common, making El Capitan de facto God while underway.  Has this changed a lot?

Morale is a problem, mainly because we've been sending our boys out to die in useless theatres without objective to beat up on third world locals while simultaneously befriending them.  

Yes men: we've had years of peace, which tends to create Gentlemen Officers interested in careers more than mission...  But we've had this in the past.  Sucks that some good men will die because of stupid commanders, but that's every war and while we have "affirmative action" they have a lot of the usual nepotism...  
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Russia and China are VERY formidable as cyber adversaries.  The Government does not tell the people what goes on but this is a constant threat.  We haven't truly poked Russia since the Cold War and international treaties classify cyber warfare as acts of war.  We might get to see this first hand.  Plus, cyber warfare doesn't stop at military on military.  They will go after infrastructure, banking, communications (military and civil) and the list goes on.

SATCOM...and satellite sensors are something I know little about about but are simply next level stuff.  I couldn't even begin to talk about those.  But, almost all military aircraft have SATCOM now.  BUT, you are always attached to a ship or warfare commander.  That person has to make the call up and then back down.  It takes time.  YES...we have written and trained on ROE.  The problem is, when it's time to do killing stuff, people are afraid to do killing stuff.  So, people want to get the highest level of approval before saying shoot.  By that time, it's no longer a justified shot.  Even rights to self defense have been limited.  So yes, this has changed A LOT!

 
Mac said:
I'm not a YAY Trump guy but...

- It boils down to, do they view the president as "weak".  Trump was a wild card.  Biden is weak.
- While not presented to the American people, Trump not giving arms to Ukraine could have been an agreement to not poke Russia.  Also, all arms sales to other countries are "supposed" to get UN Security Council approval...something Russian is a member of.
- NATO...Freaking joke!  I have been saying to pull out of NATO and the UN for decades.  All they do is use US hardware, troops and resources...PLUS...hardly pay a dime into to it.  NATO is a Cold War leftover.  They should be paying the US to give our support.  Same with the UN.  They view our membership as a way to control us and make us pay for their projects.
- I have to disagree.  Trump wasn't even in office and the left started protesting.  They protested, held bogus hearings, obstructed progress the entire 4 years.  I can't say Trump divided the country.  obama did!  Trump never had a chance.  Mind you...I can't stand "The Donald", but President Trump was the first President in my adult life to push agendas that I had wanted my entire life.  I wish he could have done more.  Still, take a look, the GOP has done NOTHING!  Not a f*cking thing to groom anyone for 2024.  So...Trump will run again.  The GOP drops this ball every time.  Plus, they need to update their platform.  America does not what an aging, rich, white guy.  
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https://www.foxnews.com/world/germany-army-standing-bare-limited-combat-readiness-top-chief

 
Rockwood said:
I think cyber attack wise, we're fine.  Proof of this: you never hear about a US cyber attack on anything other than one attack so amazing and successful it went beyond its intended target (Stuxnet).  A lesson was learned there I'm sure.
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far from it.. you dont hear about the attacks very much or openly as companies and other entities dont want to admit they have security gaps for fear of them loosing money over it.

just look at how many people loose thier effing minds when the power goes out for any amount of time, or they cant get internet.. i can see an attack on the grond or whatever casuing widespread panick amonst everyone and we destroy ourselves over the panick created. people are that dumb these days i feel.

 
Haven't read this long thread, but heard yesterday that like in 2014 Ukraine gave up their nukes... Whoops.. Had they had them, they could say, .. go ahead and invade, we'll just obliterate your stinking country!

abc

 
Mac said:
Russia and China are VERY formidable as cyber adversaries.  The Government does not tell the people what goes on but this is a constant threat.  We haven't truly poked Russia since the Cold War and international treaties classify cyber warfare as acts of war.  We might get to see this first hand.  Plus, cyber warfare doesn't stop at military on military.  They will go after infrastructure, banking, communications (military and civil) and the list goes on.

SATCOM...and satellite sensors are something I know little about about but are simply next level stuff.  I couldn't even begin to talk about those.  But, almost all military aircraft have SATCOM now.  BUT, you are always attached to a ship or warfare commander.  That person has to make the call up and then back down.  It takes time.  YES...we have written and trained on ROE.  The problem is, when it's time to do killing stuff, people are afraid to do killing stuff.  So, people want to get the highest level of approval before saying shoot.  By that time, it's no longer a justified shot.  Even rights to self defense have been limited.  So yes, this has changed A LOT!
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Russians and Chinese originate a lot of attacks, but they're not very original.  Yes, they do get in, but it's generally due to outdated patching on holes that DISA and others already knew about, not because they came up with something novel.  

Assuming air superiority, US military communications is not a problem.  

 
Kevin said:
far from it.. you dont hear about the attacks very much or openly as companies and other entities dont want to admit they have security gaps for fear of them loosing money over it.

just look at how many people loose thier effing minds when the power goes out for any amount of time, or they cant get internet.. i can see an attack on the grond or whatever casuing widespread panick amonst everyone and we destroy ourselves over the panick created. people are that dumb these days i feel.
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I'm not talking about successful attacks from Russia/China. 

I'm talking about successful attacks we've pulled off.  Outside of Stuxnet, which was hilariously elegant and completely undetected by the victim until a US Cyber provider found it when it grew beyond its intended target, there aren't many on public record.  Why?  Because we own 99.999999999% of the security providers in the world.  They aren't saying chit.

There are a lot of attacks on US assets .mil assets.  This is expected since we're the juiciest target.  Those that are are due to lacksidaisical patching by some company out there.  Do you think the Russian/Chinese infrastructure is better?  LOL.  

Yes, we've had breaches, but I highly doubt Russia or China wants to pull the real cyber attack trigger on us.  

 
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Mac said:
- I have to disagree.  Trump wasn't even in office and the left started protesting.  They protested, held bogus hearings, obstructed progress the entire 4 years.  I can't say Trump divided the country.  obama did!  Trump never had a chance.  Mind you...I can't stand "The Donald", but President Trump was the first President in my adult life to push agendas that I had wanted my entire life.  I wish he could have done more.  Still, take a look, the GOP has done NOTHING!  Not a f*cking thing to groom anyone for 2024.  So...Trump will run again.  The GOP drops this ball every time.  Plus, they need to update their platform.  America does not what an aging, rich, white guy.  
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Sorry, didn't mean to say Trump divided the country, I agree with you that is was divided before.  I think Trump due to teh division.

 
BTW, I'm not talking about hacking resulting in loss of information (classified, private, whatever).  That does happen, and continues to happen.  I'm talking about truly bringing something down.  Can it happen?  Sure.  I guarantee we'll be without power in parts of the country, chit won't work, etc.

But...  That returning volley is gonna hurt them a whole hell of a lot more than it's gonna hurt us.  We'll be inconvenienced.  They'll be sending messages via carrier pigeon, written on paper with pencils, and read under a candle. :biggrin:

 
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