The Transaxle Thread

Here’s my stupid question; is there a difference between an S4 and an S4S ? Why do I see some calling them an S4 and some an S4S? 

 
Jersey_Jeff73 said:
there is a s4s and a s4d the s4d had a bigger ring and pinion i believe
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Sean has a great write up in this thread explaining the difference between the S4 and S4D - you are correct, the R&P is bigger in the S4D. But I don’t see any trans listed with a designation of S4S. So still looking to answer the question; is there any difference between an S4 and an S4S or is this just people using different designations for the same trans? 

 
Dockmaster said:
Sean has a great write up in this thread explaining the difference between the S4 and S4D - you are correct, the R&P is bigger in the S4D. But I don’t see any trans listed with a designation of S4S. So still looking to answer the question; is there any difference between an S4 and an S4S or is this just people using different designations for the same trans? 
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S4"S" is a somewhat of a legacy term that many builders use to differentiate the S4 and S4D. The extra S doesn't mean anything other than it's a 10" R&P trans. 

You would be surprised how many people think they have a sequential trans because the case says MD4S on the side. 

 
Sean@Weddle said:
S4"S" is a somewhat of a legacy term that many builders use to differentiate the S4 and S4D. The extra S doesn't mean anything other than it's a 10" R&P trans. 

You would be surprised how many people think they have a sequential trans because the case says MD4S on the side. 
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Thank you! Confirms my assumptions. 

 
Sean@Weddle said:
Best to e-mail me for updated drawings. Can't load them here as they are PDF.

PBS was basically a copy of the Mendi S4/S5 with a few alterations to the shift system and housings, but they were still never 100% reliable with shifting and still have housings that crack/break. Most notable issues are bad shifting or "ghost" shifts, where the shift lever is pulled/pushed to upshift/downshift to the next gear, but the shift mechanism inside does not shift into the next gear (common problem with pre-Weddle Mendeola sequentials as well). 

PBS is now defunct as of early 2020. Any specific PBS parts that are broken will not be able to be purchased new. Can use most of the internals to install into new Weddle housings for around $7000.

Notable difference is that the bottom of the PBS trans will hang down about 1" lower if you choose not to raise the engine. 

Always best to call or e-mail me direct for timelines.
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Is there a remedy for this? my car has just recently started to have this issue. this PBS trans has all Weddle internals however not sure about the shift mechanism. 

 
Dune savage said:
Is there a remedy for this? my car has just recently started to have this issue. this PBS trans has all Weddle internals however not sure about the shift mechanism. 
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Shift mechanism parts are specific to PBS, and cannot be converted to Weddle parts. 

 
I just had a 4E gone through including a new R/P. I was told that the next time I need to replace the R/P, I will have to convert the 4E to a 2D at an approximate cost of $9k because once the current inventory of gear sets runs out, there will be no more made. Is this true? should I buy one now and sit on it? 

 
Sean@Weddle said:
Shift mechanism parts are specific to PBS, and cannot be converted to Weddle parts. 
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Thanks for the reply Sean, do you know if the ghost shifting has a remedy? mine seams to get hung up in 2nd while the selector arm ends up in the 3rd and 4th plunge arm. I apologize for my lack of technical terms.

 
Dune savage said:
Thanks for the reply Sean, do you know if the ghost shifting has a remedy? mine seams to get hung up in 2nd while the selector arm ends up in the 3rd and 4th plunge arm. I apologize for my lack of technical terms.
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You need someone with enough patience to tune the springs so that the mechanism returns to center after every shift. This is a common problem with the Gen 1 Mendi shift mechanisms, which are the same as the PBS. It's a PITA, which is why I no longer take them in for service. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Easy fix is to lightly bump the shifter in the opposite direction of the shift you just performed, to help return the mechanism to center. 

 
Sean@Weddle said:
You need someone with enough patience to tune the springs so that the mechanism returns to center after every shift. This is a common problem with the Gen 1 Mendi shift mechanisms, which are the same as the PBS. It's a PITA, which is why I no longer take them in for service. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Easy fix is to lightly bump the shifter in the opposite direction of the shift you just performed, to help return the mechanism to center. 
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Thank you Sir, Ill give it a shot next time it happens.

 
MRKNNEE said:
I just had a 4E gone through including a new R/P. I was told that the next time I need to replace the R/P, I will have to convert the 4E to a 2D at an approximate cost of $9k because once the current inventory of gear sets runs out, there will be no more made. Is this true? should I buy one now and sit on it? 
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@Sean@Weddle

 
The MD4E will someday go obsolete. The cost to make those parts are just as much as a 2D part, so it is no longer an "economical" price point.

the only truly specific MD4E components are the R&P and input shaft, everything else is common between VW and 2D.

We still have plenty of 5.14 Gleason R&P sets on the shelf to last for a few years at the current rate of sales. 

We are somewhat ok on input shafts for now. Again, based on current sales rate, we should have them for the next few years.

Once we run out of those parts, then you will need to convert to a 2D once you burn up a R&P, or break and input shaft.

Nothing to worry about until that time comes. Keep running them and save your money for the conversion once it's required.

 
Sean@Weddle said:
You need someone with enough patience to tune the springs so that the mechanism returns to center after every shift. This is a common problem with the Gen 1 Mendi shift mechanisms, which are the same as the PBS. It's a PITA, which is why I no longer take them in for service. The juice isn't worth the squeeze.

Easy fix is to lightly bump the shifter in the opposite direction of the shift you just performed, to help return the mechanism to center. 
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Extremely happy to report that my problem was in the sloppy shift linkage. Another board member @Agricon was able to share his past experience and was spot on. after tightening up all linkage the car ran like a raped ape, and the trans never felt more solid. Obviously I will need to start planning for the upgrade but my family was thrilled to be back up and running and we will be able to close out the season.  Thank you Sean@weddle for your help as well.

Tim

 
I know I have seen it somewhere before but i cant seen to find it now. Im getting ready to install a PBS in place of a 2D in a buddies car and couldnt remember which way the shifter cables are routed or i guess which way is an up shift and down shift on the shifter arm  

 
HydroPower said:
I know I have seen it somewhere before but i cant seen to find it now. Im getting ready to install a PBS in place of a 2D in a buddies car and couldnt remember which way the shifter cables are routed or i guess which way is an up shift and down shift on the shifter arm  
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If you use the PBS shifter, in a rear engine car, you have to loop the main cable at the trans so it pulls the shift lever from the rear for proper pull to upshift shifter movement. 

You can use the Weddle (Hargett) or Extreme shifter and use straight cables to pull from the front of the trans. This is preferred and no need for a looped cable. 

(If a mid engine car, then use the PBS shifter and attach the cable in front of the shift lever on the trans)

 
Sean@Weddle said:
Best to e-mail me for updated drawings. Can't load them here as they are PDF.

PBS was basically a copy of the Mendi S4/S5 with a few alterations to the shift system and housings, but they were still never 100% reliable with shifting and still have housings that crack/break. Most notable issues are bad shifting or "ghost" shifts, where the shift lever is pulled/pushed to upshift/downshift to the next gear, but the shift mechanism inside does not shift into the next gear (common problem with pre-Weddle Mendeola sequentials as well). 

PBS is now defunct as of early 2020. Any specific PBS parts that are broken will not be able to be purchased new. Can use most of the internals to install into new Weddle housings for around $7000.

Notable difference is that the bottom of the PBS trans will hang down about 1" lower if you choose not to raise the engine. 

Always best to call or e-mail me direct for timelines.
Click to expand...
@Sean@Weddle you would not recommend buying a car with a PBS at this time?

 
URCLEVER said:
@Sean@Weddle you would not recommend buying a car with a PBS at this time?
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I wouldn't say that, they are still a decent trans to have. The unfortunate part comes when a housing cracks/breaks or a shifting components wears out/breaks. That could be a year, it could be 10 years. 

I would not hesitate to buy a car with a PBS in it, but I would know that it will need a Weddle S4/S5 replacement somewhere down the line once the PBS is done. New mounts will have to be welded into the chassis for the Weddle trans. 

If the gears, R&P, diff are still useable in a blown up PBS trans, those parts could be transferred into Weddle cases for considerably less cost than buying a complete new trans. 

 
@Sean@Weddle
I have a 2 seat rear engine 2021 SU with a 383 twin turbo just shy of 800 at the wheels with S4S

saturday going up olds, 3rd gear, as I came off the throttle I heard a bang, followed by what sounds like metal on metal rubbing. 
gears are all there and function. 

noise gets louder under more load/throttle. Off throttle and noise goes away. You can feel the shifter handle kind of bumping as it makes the rubbing noise. 
Joe fab says he thinks it’s dif gear tooth broke? 
Dropping it off to Ed later this week.

Ideas of what failed and costs associated to fix.

or should I fix and sale current trans and swap to s4d. I know it’s on the edge of power for an s4 but car is decently light. 
 

see video for noise 

any help / advise appreciated. So I can mentally prepare before trans removed, lol


IMG_8218.mov

 



 

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