The Transaxle Thread

I read through this thread again which has great info. What I didn't see is anything detailing the differences between an Albins and an S5D other than the description write-up in the beginning. I have been told that both of these use the same R&P and same gears. Is this true? If so, how does the Albins achieve a higher rating than the S5D? If second gear is the weaker link in an S5D what does Albins do differently to overcome this? I'm not looking for any proprietary info here, just the basics so I can make an informed decision. 

 
Dockmaster said:
I read through this thread again which has great info. What I didn't see is anything detailing the differences between an Albins and an S5D other than the description write-up in the beginning. I have been told that both of these use the same R&P and same gears. Is this true? If so, I'm not looking for any proprietary info here, just the basics so I can make an informed decision. 
Click to expand...
I have been told that both of these use the same R&P and same gears. Is this true?

Same R&P teeth, yes. Not the same 1st-5th gears. Albins does have slightly wider gears than an S5D, but not by much.

how does the Albins achieve a higher rating than the S5D?

Albins uses a Torsen differential (12 planetary gears, 6 each driving a sun gear), which is far stronger than the 4-spider open diff in the S4D/S5D. Also adds some traction biasing effect (limited slip diff) to get power to both wheels under acceleration.

There are some other design features with the housings and the way the bearings and gears are done in the Albins to give it a stronger overall rating.

If second gear is the weaker link in an S5D what does Albins do differently to overcome this?

2nd gear is cut onto the mainshaft with 1st gear (like a VW), rather than being splined onto the shaft. The S5D has a splined 2nd gear, and the way the gear is offset to the splines, it creates a bit of a weak spot. 

There are many other small factors that add up to an Albins having an overall higher capability to an S4D/S5D. I have been pushing the S4D/S5D lately because I know that most people don't use all of the power they actually have other than a few short bursts from time to time. I truly believe the Weddle is the best "bang for your buck" if you have a limited budget. 

 
Sean@Weddle said:
I have been told that both of these use the same R&P and same gears. Is this true?

Same R&P teeth, yes. Not the same 1st-5th gears. Albins does have slightly wider gears than an S5D, but not by much.

how does the Albins achieve a higher rating than the S5D?

Albins uses a Torsen differential (12 planetary gears, 6 each driving a sun gear), which is far stronger than the 4-spider open diff in the S4D/S5D. Also adds some traction biasing effect (limited slip diff) to get power to both wheels under acceleration.

There are some other design features with the housings and the way the bearings and gears are done in the Albins to give it a stronger overall rating.

If second gear is the weaker link in an S5D what does Albins do differently to overcome this?

2nd gear is cut onto the mainshaft with 1st gear (like a VW), rather than being splined onto the shaft. The S5D has a splined 2nd gear, and the way the gear is offset to the splines, it creates a bit of a weak spot. 

There are many other small factors that add up to an Albins having an overall higher capability to an S4D/S5D. I have been pushing the S4D/S5D lately because I know that most people don't use all of the power they actually have other than a few short bursts from time to time. I truly believe the Weddle is the best "bang for your buck" if you have a limited budget. 
Click to expand...
Excellent, exactly the info I was hoping for. Thank you. This makes my decision even easier. I will add to the budget to go with the Albins now that I have a better sense of what you get for the added $$. 

 
Sean I purchased a brand new s4 installed it in the car and while reinstalling the motor I got it all sinched down made sure the splines were in the clutch disk and everything went smoothly I wanted to double check everything thing and I’m glad I did. As I went to turn the motor over with a wrench on the crank I get a grinding sound. In order to not destroy the thrust bearings in the motor I pulled it back out to see what was hitting and it seems like the flywheel teeth are touching something but I can’t seem to pin point what it is. 
 

is there a specific area in the bell housing that doesn’t get machined down quite enough some times? I thought I’d ask before I put some diechem in the bell housing and try to put the motor back in to hopefully mark out the problem area 

clutch is a refreshed single disk from Kennedy 
 

 
ranman5608 said:
Sean I purchased a brand new s4 installed it in the car and while reinstalling the motor I got it all sinched down made sure the splines were in the clutch disk and everything went smoothly I wanted to double check everything thing and I’m glad I did. As I went to turn the motor over with a wrench on the crank I get a grinding sound. In order to not destroy the thrust bearings in the motor I pulled it back out to see what was hitting and it seems like the flywheel teeth are touching something but I can’t seem to pin point what it is. 
 

is there a specific area in the bell housing that doesn’t get machined down quite enough some times? I thought I’d ask before I put some diechem in the bell housing and try to put the motor back in to hopefully mark out the problem area 

clutch is a refreshed single disk from Kennedy 
 
Click to expand...
This area maybe?

It happens.  Have had 3 S4's have this same issue.  No big deal per Kevin McMullen.  Once it clearances itself, no more noise.

InkedS4 Closeup_LI.jpg

 
Yes. That spot is the common area that the bolts from the clutch cover contact. We machine this area as deep as we can without cutting into the bronze bushing. Some cover bolts stand up a little tall and hit this spot.

Best to try and find some lower profile pressure plate bolts 1st. Grind/Clearance as last resort. 

 
turns out the flywheel was hitting the starter because i had flipped it over to clear the fuel cell not noticing the starter has an offset mount. thank you guys for the help.

 
I have a PBS cable shifter that replaces the standard nose cone.  It is currently on a Megasand 3 speed transaxle and I would like to remove it and use it on a 2d transaxle. 
Will I have a standard 4 speed H pattern once I make the swap or will some additional modifications be required?

Hoping someone has tried this before with success or @Sean@Weddle can advise. 
Thanks. 

 
FOG said:
I have a PBS cable shifter that replaces the standard nose cone.  It is currently on a Megasand 3 speed transaxle and I would like to remove it and use it on a 2d transaxle. 
Will I have a standard 4 speed H pattern once I make the swap or will some additional modifications be required?

Hoping someone has tried this before with success or @Sean@Weddle can advise. 
Thanks. 
Click to expand...
In short, yes, that nosecone will bolt up to a 2D.

If you currently have the "2D" Megasand with the larger mainshaft bearing that stands out of the housing, the section of nosecone that acts as a thrust surface for the bearing will be clearanced.

If you have the Type 1 or 091 Megasand, that nosecone would need to be machined to allow for the larger bearing on the 2D. 

Sorry, I don't have any pictures handy to show what I am talking about, and nothing currently in the shop that I can take a picture of.

 
@FOG In addition to maybe needing to clearance the shift housing for the bearing you may also need to trim the shift forks. Here’s a picture of a megasand with the forks trimmed as well as a super awful picture of how they should be trimmed (best I could find). 

IMG_8944.png

IMG_8945.png
 

actually was just able to use internet archive to grab this snapshot from the pbs website from years ago

IMG_8946.png

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sean@Weddle said:
In short, yes, that nosecone will bolt up to a 2D.

If you currently have the "2D" Megasand with the larger mainshaft bearing that stands out of the housing, the section of nosecone that acts as a thrust surface for the bearing will be clearanced.

If you have the Type 1 or 091 Megasand, that nosecone would need to be machined to allow for the larger bearing on the 2D. 

Sorry, I don't have any pictures handy to show what I am talking about, and nothing currently in the shop that I can take a picture of.
Click to expand...
Thanks for your quick response. 

 
Dylanshaffer said:
@FOG In addition to maybe needing to clearance the shift housing for the bearing you may also need to trim the shift forks. Here’s a picture of a megasand with the forks trimmed as well as a super awful picture of how they should be trimmed (best I could find). 

View attachment 118414

View attachment 118415
 

actually was just able to use internet archive to grab this snapshot from the pbs website from years ago

View attachment 118419
Click to expand...
@Dylanshaffer Thanks for all of your detailed information. I really appreciate your efforts. 

 
This may have been addressed many times in the past but I'm old and I want to hear it again. Does it hurt anything in an HV24 to start the engine and run it for a while in nuetral if the car has been sitting unmoved, possibly for months at a time? The mainshaft is still spinning and I wonder if there is enough lubrication on the bearings for doing so.

I guess the solution is to jack up the rear wheels and put it in gear? Is this even necessary?
 
KLC said:
This may have been addressed many times in the past but I'm old and I want to hear it again. Does it hurt anything in an HV24 to start the engine and run it for a while in nuetral if the car has been sitting unmoved, possibly for months at a time? The mainshaft is still spinning and I wonder if there is enough lubrication on the bearings for doing so.

I guess the solution is to jack up the rear wheels and put it in gear? Is this even necessary?
Click to expand...
The only issue that could arise is having an input shaft seal in the bell housing go bad and start to leak.

With the car not in motion, the R&P is not churning oil to the input seal and lubricating it. Running for a long time in neutral could allow the seal to get hot and brittle, then develop a leak.

Nothing else would be harmed in the gearbox though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top