Speed UTV

I though the easiest way to define a SXS was less then 1000cc and not how much one could spend on stock car or adding aftermarket parts. Not sure how the sanctioned race clubs look at it but at what point does a SXS become a sand car or off road car just like anything else. The option for the 4 cyl 2 liter is cool but can you still say its a SXS. Also I had asked eariler but no one answered do you still need to wear a helmet in the 2 liter rzr? Or now that it is over 1000cc it like any thing else in the sand dunes?
Here's what I know - the ROHVA is a group of all of the SxS mfrs who were told by the CPSC to make SxS safer based on the Rhino fatalities. They tested the Rhino and it flopped over at 15 mph on a flat asphalt parking lot. The reason for that was high CoG and high roll center, plus no harness and no doors. The ROHVA countered with putting the blame on the driver to wear a helmet (in CA only, the test bed for all stupid crap) and they were off the hook to build lower, wider, safer vehicles. The 1,000cc thing was just to help define a SxS. This then went to a legislator who wrote the law as it was dictated to him.

What I've heard - People are saying due to Polaris's influence, they should have no problem convincing the fellow members of ROHVA to change the 1,000cc definition to something higher, maybe 2L, maybe 2.5L, who knows, but I'd guess they would add something about mass produced specifically for off roading so VW, Ecotec, Subaru, etc powered vehicles will not be included.  The ROHVA wouldn't change it themselves, they would suggest the changes to the legislation to some lawmaker who would do it for them.

 
This is actually a really good post.

I agree with pretty much everything here.

I also agree RG is not looking at the RZR and saying, damn, I should've done this or that. 

The ONLY thing I can all but guarantee he is pissed about the 4 cylinder.

I think I stated this in the past, if RG could have a do over and knowing what he knows now, he (or I) would've popped in a NA 2.4 ecotec and it wouldve been CL 10 legal (I think) AND a UTV. Pop a turbo on it and you're killing it in UTV. This could have bypassed ALOT of CARB issues (I think, I am not an expert in this arena). Maybe I am wrong here. 

Either way my own opinion is I would rather have a larger engine that is NA that puts out the same HP for reliability reasons apples to apples.

The other argument is the 4 cyl is quite a bit heavier and the HP bump will negate any gains.

*** On the other hand ***

This all may be a moot point if Polaris is not allowed and does not get a rule change to compete in Production UTV because of the >1000cc rule. Production is the PREMIER class funny enough, nobody really cares about unlimited because you can enter pretty much anything. Guys that cant win in production usually go to unlimited to get a trophy.

The whole thing is interesting and is great for ALL consumers because this kind of one upping competition benefits everybody.
I think we will see a new designation of classes for the UTVs.   The new Polaris is still going to be thrown into some type of unlimited class for now.   

I have a feeling there will be other manufactures that jump into the larger n/a engine.

 
I am sure Matlock has the shocks valved and sprung to his liking for the race application.  He is still running the live valve set up. Obviously the cage required to race SCORE and fuel cell.  Suspension arms look to be stock and the trailing arms.  They did do an exhaust as they had to make room for the fuel cell.   He will likely finish the race as he always finds a way to finish.  Him winning overall for the UTVs is unlikely in a new UTV.   

Here let me help you out - RJ Anderson is sponsored by Walker Evans Racing, which is the company his dad owns.  That is why he ran Walker Shocks on the car.   What's the point of making a video of a car they're not actually going to sell? Polaris should have insisted on using their shocks to showcase their vehicle, regardless of who owns a shock company. To me, it smacks of "smoke and mirrors", but you know I prefer dry tech lectures over exciting action videos. I just wish they had the Doonies girls in there somewhere!

Oh and those were stock a-arms and trailing arms he was running in that video.  Did you see the frame break in half when he over shot that jump? Me neither.  A hit like that should of folded the entire car if we believe your thoughts on the frame. You never know, it might have sustained damage, we weren't given a close up of anything, not like that guy who plastered pics and CAD drawings all over the net. Did you see something fly off the right side suspension when it landed? I saw someone post that they did. Probably nothing important.

Have you ever driven or been in a UTV with the Live Value set up?  I am going to guess not.   The Polaris system is not just a push the button to change the suspension feel.  The new system is 4 different settings and an "oh chit button" on the steering wheel for when you want full stiff (The vigara of suspension. LOL).  The system also monitors each corner and can adjust the shocks to reduce body roll and the front from diving.  New system does hi/low speed compression and rebound adjustments.  It is not a perfect system, but for some person that does not want to tinker with shocks it is a good set up. This reminds me of Apple vs PC debate. Apple owners wouldn't know a memory chip if it bit them on the nose, a lot of PC owners build their own computers. I built all of my computers, including my servers. The problems come in when something breaks and the driver doesn't know what to do 50 mi away from camp. Hopefully, someone in the group is handy with tools. Assuming they're with a group. 

The Can Am Smart shock set up has a ways to go.  Hence why I did not hold out for a Smart Shock model. 

If I got 100% on a test I was not bragging about it and telling everyone how much smarter I was then them.  LOL!   I never had to. All of the B and C students were begging the teacher to grade on a curve, but the teacher would point at me and say, "Sorry, he got 100 on it, so the curve starts at 100. Try studying harder next time."   LOL!

In you mind RG should never look at a competitors car.  How did he figure out what was needed to build a UTV and make it better, if he never looked at what was out there?  I didn't say he should never look at a competitors car. I asked why would he? What would he learn? Remember, he was involved in designing the XP900 4 seater, I think it was, then he was involved with the XX. I think he's seen exactly what's in them. He clearly states numerous times in his videos he felt we deserved better.
Aside from the new clutch setup, he might learn from that. He seems very happy with the Tapp clutch. I guess we'll see how it works out. If not, it won't be the first time the aftermarket came up with a better clutch and people installed them. For the record, I'm not sure I'm happy with how the Tapp clutch transfers the power. Based just on videos (very unscientific) it LOOKS LIKE the Canams accelerate better than the Speed does. I'd love to see a race between the two to see how much difference there is, but it sure seems to me the Speed doesn't accelerate that well and the Canams do great in that regard. See? RG is not God, the Speed UTV is not perfect, you saw me post that! OTOH, you can custom order any color scheme you like and they'll sell you real carbon fiber body panels!  Woohoo!   LOL

 
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So I was fortunate to watch part of Chupacabra review this AM on the RZR.  Then half way through watching it, the vid stopped.  Pulled by either RZR or Youtube (not an expert lol)  But why would they pull it?  Also I cant be the only one wondering what would happen if that rubber band and clutch grenade sending frag into the cockpit.  

 
I am so glad we are back on the road to 200!  LOL!

This thread is like Thanksgiving dinner when someone brings up politics and all hell breaks loose with the family.  LMAO!!!!!!

 
This is actually a really good post.

I agree with pretty much everything here.

I also agree RG is not looking at the RZR and saying, damn, I should've done this or that. 

The ONLY thing I can all but guarantee he is pissed about the 4 cylinder.

I think I stated this in the past, if RG could have a do over and knowing what he knows now, he (or I) would've popped in a NA 2.4 ecotec and it wouldve been CL 10 legal (I think) AND a UTV. Pop a turbo on it and you're killing it in UTV. This could have bypassed ALOT of CARB issues (I think, I am not an expert in this arena). Maybe I am wrong here. 

Either way my own opinion is I would rather have a larger engine that is NA that puts out the same HP for reliability reasons apples to apples.

The other argument is the 4 cyl is quite a bit heavier and the HP bump will negate any gains.

*** On the other hand ***

This all may be a moot point if Polaris is not allowed and does not get a rule change to compete in Production UTV because of the >1000cc rule. Production is the PREMIER class funny enough, nobody really cares about unlimited because you can enter pretty much anything. Guys that cant win in production usually go to unlimited to get a trophy.

The whole thing is interesting and is great for ALL consumers because this kind of one upping competition benefits everybody.
The original Polaris Slingshots had the GM ECO-Tech 2.4L, is this Prostar 2.0L a trimmed down, higher HP model?

How much interchangeability still exists :dunno:  the ECO-Tech is well know in off-road.

Pretty good discussion around it though :cheers:

 
The original Polaris Slingshots had the GM ECO-Tech 2.4L, is this Prostar 2.0L a trimmed down, higher HP model?

How much interchangeability still exists :dunno:  the ECO-Tech is well know in off-road.

Pretty good discussion around it though :cheers:
Correct... but in 2020, Polaris introduced their own 4 cylinder ProStar, which replaced the GM Ecotec.  Polaris claims the "Fury" motor in the R is "all new" however, they still make reference to the ProStar in the Slingshot, mentioning a lighter crank and IIRC, an improved oiling system (and of course some performance upgrades).  I would venture to guess the Fury motor is of similar architecture to the ProStar, seems logical however, who knows... we'll all see soon enough.

 
Correct... but in 2020, Polaris introduced their own 4 cylinder ProStar, which replaced the GM Ecotec.  Polaris claims the "Fury" motor in the R is "all new" however, they still make reference to the ProStar in the Slingshot, mentioning a lighter crank and IIRC, an improved oiling system (and of course some performance upgrades).  I would venture to guess the Fury motor is of similar architecture to the ProStar, seems logical however, who knows... we'll all see soon enough.


 
Was kinda surprised how large the trailing arm is compared to the old ghayzr. 

Seems like a lot of car for only 31,999. 

pro r trailing arm.jpg

 
No vacation. For what? I'm not the guy who posted the N word on the board. I also noticed you didn't make a squeak about that.

I don't think of it as renditions, they're running them (one over 10,000 mi to date) and making running changes as they find stuff, which is the whole point of testing. If they do 500 iterations before he releases it, that's fine with me, as long as it's reliable when he releases it. I like that process a whole lot better than sell it to the public and deny the warranty when it failed (going back to the 800s and 900s) or the inevitable stop sell/stop ride that they are famous for.
The bacation part of my post was only a joke. Just haven’t seen you around lately. Also, you would have to refresh my memory on the post for the N word. I’m pretty positive I missed that one as I’ve been busy and not around much. I do agree with you I that it would be nice to work out all of the motor bugs before hitting the public and having a recall as my manufacture likes to do! I was simply pointing out that as bad azz as NASCAR is they aren’t swinging 100% either with the Speed motor.

 
Is it stamped steel or chromoly?
You already know the answer to that question.  Speed is the only one that will be using Chromoly for the suspension arms. 

 
Only caught a quick glimpse of last nights show.  Only saw the part where he was talking about the race.   Anything new come out of the show?

 
Only caught a quick glimpse of last nights show.  Only saw the part where he was talking about the race.   Anything new come out of the show?
He talked about all of the little refinements they are doing after the testing they did. They tilted the shifter and attached it to the cable double shear, now it works much smoother, they disassembled the test engines and changed some of the tolerances for more longevity. It sounded like the trans and differentials are all fine. That's about it.

It was boring, that poor guy is a great designer or whatever, but he's no motivational speaker!  LOL However, I'm still grateful that they're going over everything with magnifying glasses to make sure they're not missing anything. Nobody's perfect, but if they keep looking everything over again and again with multiple people, eventually they'll catch everything humanly possible.

 
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