Speed UTV

Dune-Track-N said:
DTA I know you're a racer so maybe I'm wrong. I have not read the rules of this race. Typically in desert races there is either one pit or multiple pits. Fuel, repairs, parts must be done at the pit 90% of the races I've attended. Typically on a one pit "no chase" like this, only a competitor can assist. Again I don't know all the details on the fueling issues, here. Not even sure this race does all the fuel safety stuff like splash mats and fire suits for fuelers. Again just was amazed he got away with this. 

And another note.... I should read the rules. How is the Speed UTV considered a legal UTV to race. They still don't have an MSO # or production vehicles in the market yet. Really suprized the cann-ham and poolaris teams didn't protest. maybe they did and lost again I don't know

Back to the SPEED UTV!
Click to expand...
Went and read the rules.... since now I was invested in this https://utvworldchampionship.com/rulebook/

MGD5: There is no outside assistance permitted on the UTV World Championship course or near the course during the event except for those UTV World Championship designated areas set-aside for pits and/or gas stops. The UTV World Championship retains the right to assess each situation and respond accordingly. (Situations involving safety are at the discretion of the Operations Manager or Race Director of The UTV World Championship .)

In the event that a vehicle breaks down on the course The UTV World Championship approves the following options. (Any deviation from these options may result in the entrant being disqualified.)

1) Driver or Co-driver who is with the vehicle at the time of breakdown may walk to and from the nearest official UTV World Championship pit, in order to retrieve equipment or parts necessary to repair the vehicle. Anyone other than the vehicle occupants that deliver equipment or parts will subject that vehicle to disqualification. Obtaining equipment or parts from any other location than an official UTV World Championship designated pit stop will subject entrant to disqualification.

2) Another race-entered vehicle may pick up equipment or parts at the previous designated pit stop and then deliver that equipment or parts to the broken down vehicle. The race vehicle picking up the equipment or parts must travel in the proper direction on the course. Traveling backwards on the course will subject both entrants to disqualification. Any pit support vehicle or other than race entered vehicle delivering parts to a broken down vehicle will subject entrant to disqualification.

3) Any UTV World Championship Official may assist any race entrant as long as it is done in a safe and controlled manner with permission from the Race Director, Operations Manager or Communications Director.

MGPT12: The UTV World Championship mandates refueling personnel (aka “The Fueler”; the crew member responsible for inserting the fuel nozzle or dry brake during a pit stop) wear a one piece or two piece fire suit minimally rated to the SFI Foundation’s 3.2A/5 manufacturer’s certification. The suit shall cover the crew member from the neck to the ankles and to the wrists. The suit must be free from holes, rips, tears, and not worn thin. Additionally Mandated, SFI Rated Balaclava, SFI 3.3 Rated Fire Retardant gloves and SFI 52.1 Fuel Apron. It is strongly recommended that the “fueler” wear a SNELL SA rated full face helmet. This applies to all fuel delivery systems including dump cans. SFI 3.3 rated fire retardant shoes are also strongly recommended. Additionally for all pit crew members working in the immediate area of a vehicle being fueled, the UTV World Championship requires pit crew members wear a one piece or two piece fire suit minimally rated to the SFI Foundation’s 3.2A/5 manufacturer’s certification. The UTV World Championship will accept NFPA 1971, 1977, or 2112 as acceptable alternatives to SFI rated garments. The use of a pit crew style helmets and an SFI 3.3 rated balaclava, SFI 3.3 rated fire retardant gloves, and SFI 3.3 rated fire retardant shoes are also strongly recommended.

MGPT13: Vehicle Refueling. All vehicles including car, truck, motorcycle, UTV and ATV may only be refueled with vented fuel cans or gravity fed fuel towers. Pressurized fuel systems may be used for Cars and Trucks only and must be approved and inspected by the UTV World Championship. Mandatory that all pits must have some form of approved fuel containment mat under the vehicle when fueling. Must have a bucket (preferably metal bucket) to keep overflowing fuel from reaching the ground. Overhead fuel towers and pressure systems: Must be placed a minimum of 50 feet from the race course. All towers must have a manned spring loaded dead man valve (ball gate or butterfly) to automatically close the line when the handle is released.

  • Fuel pressure systems and overhead towers must have a double redhead dry break with return back to the fuel system tank. Any other system must be approved by the UTV World Championship.
  • No larger than a -10 vent line.
  • All vehicles must have an external discriminator valve on the fuel vent.
  • It is highly recommended that your fuel system and your vehicle are grounded during refueling
  • Some form of fuel catch can, container must be in place to prevent overflowing fuel from touching the ground.
  • Fuel pressure systems must have a 10lb max pressure relief valve on the tank and must be purchased from American tank. Shop Number – 619-462-4076
  • All teams utilizing a pressure system or overhead tower must register with the UTV World Championship so the system may be inspected. The UTV World Championship reserves the right to disallow any fueling system deemed unsafe.
  • All dump cans must contain a full extension vent line to bottom of can.
  • Any team not compliant with any of these rules can be subject to penalty up to and including disqualification.



Can't find any rules yet about "production" vehicle being a requirement.

 
Dune-Track-N said:
Went and read the rules.... since now I was invested in this https://utvworldchampionship.com/rulebook/

MGD5: There is no outside assistance permitted on the UTV World Championship course or near the course during the event except for those UTV World Championship designated areas set-aside for pits and/or gas stops. The UTV World Championship retains the right to assess each situation and respond accordingly. (Situations involving safety are at the discretion of the Operations Manager or Race Director of The UTV World Championship .)

In the event that a vehicle breaks down on the course The UTV World Championship approves the following options. (Any deviation from these options may result in the entrant being disqualified.)

1) Driver or Co-driver who is with the vehicle at the time of breakdown may walk to and from the nearest official UTV World Championship pit, in order to retrieve equipment or parts necessary to repair the vehicle. Anyone other than the vehicle occupants that deliver equipment or parts will subject that vehicle to disqualification. Obtaining equipment or parts from any other location than an official UTV World Championship designated pit stop will subject entrant to disqualification.

2) Another race-entered vehicle may pick up equipment or parts at the previous designated pit stop and then deliver that equipment or parts to the broken down vehicle. The race vehicle picking up the equipment or parts must travel in the proper direction on the course. Traveling backwards on the course will subject both entrants to disqualification. Any pit support vehicle or other than race entered vehicle delivering parts to a broken down vehicle will subject entrant to disqualification.

3) Any UTV World Championship Official may assist any race entrant as long as it is done in a safe and controlled manner with permission from the Race Director, Operations Manager or Communications Director.

MGPT12: The UTV World Championship mandates refueling personnel (aka “The Fueler”; the crew member responsible for inserting the fuel nozzle or dry brake during a pit stop) wear a one piece or two piece fire suit minimally rated to the SFI Foundation’s 3.2A/5 manufacturer’s certification. The suit shall cover the crew member from the neck to the ankles and to the wrists. The suit must be free from holes, rips, tears, and not worn thin. Additionally Mandated, SFI Rated Balaclava, SFI 3.3 Rated Fire Retardant gloves and SFI 52.1 Fuel Apron. It is strongly recommended that the “fueler” wear a SNELL SA rated full face helmet. This applies to all fuel delivery systems including dump cans. SFI 3.3 rated fire retardant shoes are also strongly recommended. Additionally for all pit crew members working in the immediate area of a vehicle being fueled, the UTV World Championship requires pit crew members wear a one piece or two piece fire suit minimally rated to the SFI Foundation’s 3.2A/5 manufacturer’s certification. The UTV World Championship will accept NFPA 1971, 1977, or 2112 as acceptable alternatives to SFI rated garments. The use of a pit crew style helmets and an SFI 3.3 rated balaclava, SFI 3.3 rated fire retardant gloves, and SFI 3.3 rated fire retardant shoes are also strongly recommended.

MGPT13: Vehicle Refueling. All vehicles including car, truck, motorcycle, UTV and ATV may only be refueled with vented fuel cans or gravity fed fuel towers. Pressurized fuel systems may be used for Cars and Trucks only and must be approved and inspected by the UTV World Championship. Mandatory that all pits must have some form of approved fuel containment mat under the vehicle when fueling. Must have a bucket (preferably metal bucket) to keep overflowing fuel from reaching the ground. Overhead fuel towers and pressure systems: Must be placed a minimum of 50 feet from the race course. All towers must have a manned spring loaded dead man valve (ball gate or butterfly) to automatically close the line when the handle is released.

  • Fuel pressure systems and overhead towers must have a double redhead dry break with return back to the fuel system tank. Any other system must be approved by the UTV World Championship.
  • No larger than a -10 vent line.
  • All vehicles must have an external discriminator valve on the fuel vent.
  • It is highly recommended that your fuel system and your vehicle are grounded during refueling
  • Some form of fuel catch can, container must be in place to prevent overflowing fuel from touching the ground.
  • Fuel pressure systems must have a 10lb max pressure relief valve on the tank and must be purchased from American tank. Shop Number – 619-462-4076
  • All teams utilizing a pressure system or overhead tower must register with the UTV World Championship so the system may be inspected. The UTV World Championship reserves the right to disallow any fueling system deemed unsafe.
  • All dump cans must contain a full extension vent line to bottom of can.
  • Any team not compliant with any of these rules can be subject to penalty up to and including disqualification.



Can't find any rules yet about "production" vehicle being a requirement.
Click to expand...
found it, Mint 400 class rules


UTV PRO TURBO
Limited UTV Turbo Charged


Click here to download a PDF.

DEFINITION
Two seat vehicles built using a production two or four seat UTV. Any manufacture UTV may be used providing the model used has been series produced in a minimum of 1000 units within a twelve(12) month period. Maximum engine size 1000cc.


UTV PRO UNLIMITED
Unlimited UTV. Maximum engine size 1000cc


Click here to download a PDF.

DEFINITION
Two seat vehicles. Maximum engine size 1000cc.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
You keep moving the goal posts back farther and farther. Isn't this the 25th time you said, "I wanna see..."

first it was prototype parts, then production parts, then a running vehicle, then... then...

Go ahead, say it. I know you will...

"I wanna see them run on Mars!" 

:lol:
Click to expand...
No moving the goal post.  They kicked a 30 yard field goal and you think they scored a touchdown.   LOL!!!!

They did great and  Max Gordon will be winning races consistently when RG and company stop thrashing to get ready for races.   He does not need a Speed UTV to win, he just needs a well prepped car.  

In watching the videos of the Speed UTV from the race there was nothing I saw that was mind blowing or showed me they are going to be dominating races anytime soon. The top guys have years of R&D and know what works to survive races.  Speed UTV is in the beginning stages.  

I said Baja because that is what he built the Speed UTV for and was the inspiration.  Maybe next year we will see them do a full race season with the Speed cars.  After all it should be in production prior to the 2022 San Felipe 250.     

 
DTA said:
You and I both know they will probably do better in baja and better in the future period, the only way forward is better. That course was hammered and I can almost guarantee you Robby was driving 50-75%. He needed that finish, DQ or not. If they would have DNF'd it would have been the third shot heard around the world. (The second being the weld) lol.

The haters are quiet and bummed. They wanted to see a failure which is sad.

I cannot remember ever a UTV manufacturer taking their test mule out to a premier race for the public to see.

Case in point, Matlock is not racing the new Polaris...
Click to expand...
Matlock was supposed to be racing the new Polaris all season.  Hence why he has been racing in the unlimited class in Baja and not the production turbo class.  He will be racing it after 11/9/21 when Polaris releases the new models.   

If they DNF'd it would not of been a big deal.  They are still testing the car and what better way then a desert race.  Parts fail on $500K-$1mill trophy trucks.  

 
DTA said:
What?

Let me clarify.

RG is racing a test mule.

Polaris is not and won't.

If RG would have DNF'd it would have been devastating on social, to his preorders sold and to his brand. I think this is where we differ in opinion.

If Matlock raced a test mule for Polaris and it DNF'd if would have the same repercussions. IMO probably 100 fold.

A Effing bolt caused the offroad world to melt. Could you imagine if RG blew up an engine, a trans, diff, ripped a corner off?

The dipshits on line would be out for blood. I (and maybe even you and other level headed people who view this is as a test) wouldn't give 2 shits, but holy hell it would be Armageddon. 
Click to expand...
Sheeyit happens on a race.  If he crashed into something, no big deal.  If there were major suspension or chassis failures, sure, but according to many on this thread, the chassis will survive re-entry from orbit.

A bolt welded into a chassis joint, however.  That's not sheeyit happening, that's someone ghetto fabbing.  People don't like paying for ghetto fab.

I don't think the blowback would've been that bad.

 
DTA said:
What?

Let me clarify.

RG is racing a test mule.

Polaris is not and won't.

If RG would have DNF'd it would have been devastating on social, to his preorders sold and to his brand. I think this is where we differ in opinion.

If Matlock raced a test mule for Polaris and it DNF'd if would have the same repercussions. IMO probably 100 fold.

A Effing bolt caused the offroad world to melt. Could you imagine if RG blew up an engine, a trans, diff, ripped a corner off?

The dipshits on line would be out for blood. I (and maybe even you and other level headed people who view this is as a test) wouldn't give 2 shits, but holy hell it would be Armageddon. 
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree those that do not understand desert racing would be all over a DNF.  

I guess the luxury of being a big manufacture is you don't have to race the test mule. LOL!   

The offroad world did not melt over the bolt, they just had fun poking fun at the guy that like to point out the crappy welds of the other manufactures. LMAO!!!!

 
I just watched a video from Shock Therapy made in Aug. 2020. He added up all of the parts it takes to take a CanAm X3 and build a car to race competitively in the turbo class and the parts alone comes out to $100k, then add in whatever a shop would charge to build it for you, or do all of the labor yourself. He says Lone Star sells a complete turn key race car for $120k - $140k. This includes upgraded suspension arms, brakes, hubs, bearings, chassis, rod ends, steering rack, etc, basically everything besides the drivetrain.

Then someone asked him what he thought about the Speed UTV. He said he hadn't seen one in person yet, but according to what parts are going into it and what Robby is saying he is doing with it, it will cost a lot less to build a race car out of it, he was looking forward to seeing one. He did say every new model takes a year for everyone to find out the issues with it. 

He has a good point, these Speed UTVs are actually quite a bargain considering what you are getting right up front, there's very little that needs to be upgraded. He said he had over $60k in his CanAm prerunner, and that doesn't have all of the parts his race car has. 

Start at 26 minutes.



 
Last edited by a moderator:
this is a snippet from a post on Speeds FB, full post below.

How fast does Max Gordon need to be to be  go from 36th off the line,  to second across the line.  Unfortunately fast enough to have the officials disqualify you.    
The racers, finish line crowd and drivers who saw Max’s run cheered for him as the officials turned  him away fron the podium.  The second cheers to his dad who stood beside his 13 year old son and said disqualify me as well.


Race Recap.
What we learned, how does this help get our cars to market faster, why we decided to race and the risks we took.
But first let’s state the obvious and recognize something amazing. If you were not at the race only the video above will be able to show what the next generation of young 13 year old Gordon looks like at Speed.
How fast does Max Gordon need to be to be go from 36th off the line, to second across the line. Unfortunately fast enough to have the officials disqualify you.
The racers, finish line crowd and drivers who saw Max’s run cheered for him as the officials turned him away fron the podium. The second cheers to his dad who stood beside his 13 year old son and said disqualify me as well. Robby and Max drove back to the pits with the cheers from the crowd, something much greater then a 2nd place finish. Something that bonds a father, son, commuting and company together.
Interesting enough we were not going there to win, we were going there to put production parts up against fully built, factory supported race teams.
We wanted to run what we are selling to our customers and see if stock components could live up to the demands of racing.



What Speed UTV components were on Max’’s XX.
1. Speed UTV Front and Rear Suspension
2 Speed UTV Shocks
3. Speed UTV Hub’s, Brakes,Spindles, Wheel and Tires.
What was not production on Robby’s Speed UTV Race car
1. We are using at Data logging ecu.
2. The chassis was built in NC but is identical to the production chassis
3. Fuel Cell and Window nets
4. Front Bulk head was billet with production gears.
We wanted as many production parts as we could logging data.
We ran on low boost to see how we compared against race built and tuned motors, we ran with stock suspension valving, we ran on stock tires while many competitors ran 35 inch tires to get better ground clearance.
What did we learn? It will take a few days to digest the data but a quick summary.
1. Max Gordon is an amazing young man, racer and friend.
2. We missed the fuel calculation and Robby ran out of gas 300 yards from the finish.
3. Max destroyed a left rear tire and drove on the rim for te last 20 miles. Imagine if he had all 4 tires on the last lap.
4. Stock Speed UTV components are much closer to going green for production. We are spending the week in Havasu testing and will have a full report on the Thursday show.
5. This was a big win for the Speed UTV customers. We put our names, company and consumer confidence to the test and won. Race wins, Olympic medals and home run records come and go, but Speed is here to stay. See you all in the desert.
Todd

 
14 minutes ago, Lord of the Dunes said:

I just watched a video from Shock Therapy made in Aug. 2020. He added up all of the parts it takes to take a CanAm X3 and build a car to race competitively in the turbo class and the parts alone comes out to $100k, then add in whatever a shop would charge to build it for you, or do all of the labor yourself. He says Lone Star sells a complete turn key race car for $120k - $140k. This includes upgraded suspension arms, brakes, hubs, bearings, chassis, rod ends, steering rack, etc, basically everything besides the drivetrain.

Then someone asked him what he thought about the Speed UTV. He said he hadn't seen one in person yet, but according to what parts are going into it and what Robby is saying he is doing with it, it will cost a lot less to build a race car out of it, he was looking forward to seeing one. He did say every new model takes a year for everyone to find out the issues with it. 

He has a good point, these Speed UTVs are actually quite a bargain considering what you are getting right up front, there's very little that needs to be upgraded. He said he had over $60k in his CanAm prerunner, and that doesn't have all of the parts his race car has. 

Start at 26 minutes.

Click to expand...
If you plan on racing seriously you order the Speed UTV race chassis and all that comes with it for the $125K price tag.  Race UTVs are  like Class 10 cars with belt drives. 

If I were racing a Can Am I would go right to Geiser and pick up their race chassis and build away.   

 
Sand Shark said:
If you plan on racing seriously you order the Speed UTV race chassis and all that comes with it for the $125K price tag.  Race UTVs are  like Class 10 cars with belt drives. 

If I were racing a Can Am I would go right to Geiser and pick up their race chassis and build away.   
Click to expand...
I'm wondering how much difference there is between the $125k race car and a $30k LE version. I understand the chassis is TIG welded chromo, it comes with the larger fuel cell, the bolted joints are welded, welded tubes instead of doors, billet front diff, window nets, radio, etc, but are there other differences? I wonder if there's a list of the upgrades?

I'm sure it's still worth it, just wondering if there are other unseen upgrades.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
I'm wondering how much difference there is between the $125k race car and a $30k LE version. I understand the chassis is TIG welded chromo, it comes with the larger fuel cell, the bolted joints are welded, welded tubes instead of doors, billet front diff, window nets, radio, etc, but are there other differences? I wonder if there's a list of the upgrades?

I'm sure it's still worth it, just wondering if there are other unseen upgrades.
Click to expand...
I do not recall seeing a list of what you get with a race Speed UTV other than some of the obvious stuff.  

 
Darkjuju said:
this is a snippet from a post on Speeds FB, full post below.

How fast does Max Gordon need to be to be  go from 36th off the line,  to second across the line.  Unfortunately fast enough to have the officials disqualify you.    
The racers, finish line crowd and drivers who saw Max’s run cheered for him as the officials turned  him away fron the podium.  The second cheers to his dad who stood beside his 13 year old son and said disqualify me as well.


Race Recap.
What we learned, how does this help get our cars to market faster, why we decided to race and the risks we took.
But first let’s state the obvious and recognize something amazing. If you were not at the race only the video above will be able to show what the next generation of young 13 year old Gordon looks like at Speed.
How fast does Max Gordon need to be to be go from 36th off the line, to second across the line. Unfortunately fast enough to have the officials disqualify you.
The racers, finish line crowd and drivers who saw Max’s run cheered for him as the officials turned him away fron the podium. The second cheers to his dad who stood beside his 13 year old son and said disqualify me as well. Robby and Max drove back to the pits with the cheers from the crowd, something much greater then a 2nd place finish. Something that bonds a father, son, commuting and company together.
Interesting enough we were not going there to win, we were going there to put production parts up against fully built, factory supported race teams.
We wanted to run what we are selling to our customers and see if stock components could live up to the demands of racing.



What Speed UTV components were on Max’’s XX.
1. Speed UTV Front and Rear Suspension
2 Speed UTV Shocks
3. Speed UTV Hub’s, Brakes,Spindles, Wheel and Tires.
What was not production on Robby’s Speed UTV Race car
1. We are using at Data logging ecu.
2. The chassis was built in NC but is identical to the production chassis
3. Fuel Cell and Window nets
4. Front Bulk head was billet with production gears.
We wanted as many production parts as we could logging data.
We ran on low boost to see how we compared against race built and tuned motors, we ran with stock suspension valving, we ran on stock tires while many competitors ran 35 inch tires to get better ground clearance.
What did we learn? It will take a few days to digest the data but a quick summary.
1. Max Gordon is an amazing young man, racer and friend.
2. We missed the fuel calculation and Robby ran out of gas 300 yards from the finish.
3. Max destroyed a left rear tire and drove on the rim for te last 20 miles. Imagine if he had all 4 tires on the last lap.
4. Stock Speed UTV components are much closer to going green for production. We are spending the week in Havasu testing and will have a full report on the Thursday show.
5. This was a big win for the Speed UTV customers. We put our names, company and consumer confidence to the test and won. Race wins, Olympic medals and home run records come and go, but Speed is here to stay. See you all in the desert.
Todd
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info as I have no SOCIAL Media accounts. I didn't see it but I wonder if they had a belt temp sensor on the Diabalo? Would be nice to hear what temps were in a race situation. I saw on the tracking data they many cars were only getting up to 60ish MPH. Would have been nice to see a dry lake bed section to haul A$$ on for top end speeds. Any ways I see this as a great test for their continued development. You will be rewarded for you wait and better off to continue to be patient. I think its gonna make the other brands step up on there designs. Down side aint anything gonna get less expensive as this snowball of inflation and many other issues continue into the next year or further.

 
jginsandiego, I ride Havasu a lot. There just isn't anywhere you can get a long fast rip. The washes being twisty is fun fast at 50-60 but damn those rocks come up fast and are big. Plus the large vegetation making you slow and slalom thru it. You are constantly checking up thru the area.

The only place that you can really rip 60+ is on the back side (east) of the mountain in mohave wash running towards the bill williams river but they don't race that far out.

 
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