Speed UTV

2024 Sand Scramble - this picture tells you a lot about the difference in suspension design. 

Flat width -vs- gaining-loosing width at different cycles
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It is funny that he got bad gas but max didn't, wouldn't you think they used the same fuel can? It's only 20gl.... between the two cars.

 
Wonder what a Pro R or Can Am R would have looked like after that tumble. It held up very well.  Of course what is the weight difference of the three vehicles?

 
Dune-Track-N said:
2024 Sand Scramble what's going on here???? broken exhaust tip with O2 sensor?

View attachment 99594
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I guess I'll have to go back and look at more pics, but obviously they weren't running the stock exhausts. 

However, THIS would absolutely explain why RG's car was running poorly and he thought he had bad fuel vs. Max's.  That said, I don't love that these things are "locked" into learning/adaptive mode.  Anybody that tunes knows you use learning to get your tune close, then lock it out, tweak it more to your liking and leave learning/adaptive off for *exactly* this reason.  Granted, it's probably why my car woke up so much after a few pulls in 3rd (to really load the thing) but if anything fails (o2 sensor itself, wiring to o2, exhaust leak, etc. etc.) your tune will go totally haywire. 

Dune-Track-N said:
2024 Sand Scramble carnage report from RG & MadMax
https://www.instagram.com/p/C4ovf7JJ-Sj/

I bet they address/tweak the trailing arm design a bit. Maybe not could be a good failure point.
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I think the latter half of your post is correct.  In a tumble like that *something* had to give.  I'd rather have the trailing arm tweak than actually bend the chassis. 

Dune-Track-N said:
2024 Sand Scramble - this picture tells you a lot about the difference in suspension design. 

Flat width -vs- gaining-loosing width at different cycles
Click to expand...
That really does say it all.  Granted, people can, and have made RZRs and X3s work very, very, VERY well with their "flawed" suspension design so I'm not saying the Speed setup is the end-all-be-all but at least it delivers on the geometry promises they made. 

Sand Shark said:
Car held up well after that tumble.  
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I agree.  Not the test any of us wanted to see... but it does make me feel a little better.  

DZRTRUN said:
Haha, I wonder if that was Robby. He was complaining in the video that his car was running poorly and said he thought it was bad fuel. I bet it was that for sure. I bet the ECU was dumping fuel and making it super rich. 
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See my thoughts above, I agree 1000%.  The ECU was like "holy chit this thing is leeeeaaaaaan" since the exhaust/o2 were just floating out in open air.  

-TJ

 
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Big_Daddy_Jp said:
Did you get your car back? If so, how is she holding up? 
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Got it back 2 weeks ago from Coyne after them having it for almost 3 months. Let’s just say I’m done with Coyne and their service department. 
I got the front bulkhead fixed. Now the drivers side arm is all scratched up. 
I got a new turbo and ECU (early Dec) now the tailgate won’t close. There’s a bent mechanism that holds the drivers side shut. So I took it off. 
looks like they stripped the tool box hold down because that box flew out while out with @Punchdrunk Monkey  surprised the box held up great. 
because Coyne left it in the yard for 3 months, the wrap is bubbling. 😞 

also messed up the passenger side wrap my moving it? Forklift? Don’t know. 
tune I have is older so it’s on and off and then on and off. Full speed, then limited. This was going on at what seemed like 20 second intervals. 
sigh. 
Coyne left it out during rain etc so car is filthy. 😠 
someone local that got a Speed got in touch with me and after similar experiences directed me towards Speed Havasu, and I’m hoping to get the car to Havasu soon. 

 
Dune-Track-N said:
2024 Sand Scramble what's going on here???? broken exhaust tip with O2 sensor?
View attachment 99594
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The dude who went on a rant had a similar failure. Not sure if the exhaust is stock with a hacked off muffler, or something completely bespoke. 

Dune-Track-N said:
2024 Sand Scramble - this picture tells you a lot about the difference in suspension design. 

Flat width -vs- gaining-loosing width at different cycles
Click to expand...
It’s about compromise. 

The radius rod setup has track change for sure, but it also has better geometry control and negates the need for plunging axles.  The Speed has less travel, positive camber, and some toe change. Toe change will go in/out as it moves away from flat, causing rear steer somewhere in the travel (usually towards droop) because there is no way to control wheel orientation throughout travel. You will always sacrifice geometry somewhere in the travel range unless the arms are a mile long.  The arms also stress the mounts more since the wheel has leverage when side-loaded. 

 
I read somewhere that they removed the mufflers and built stub outs for the exhaust. They removed the beds and the passenger seats. They were also running the Speed Key tune. Also, they were running smaller tires to keep the cars piped up. They went all out for the win and came up short again. Yes Robby lost time circling around to check on Max but he wasn’t even close to being anywhere in the hunt. As for the crash, yes it was a bad tumble. To be honest, my buddy tossed his Polaris Turbo S way harder than that. His car barrel rolled and went end over end before coming to a stop. His damage to OEM parts were a broken rear cv and body plastics. He had an aftermarket cage that had a slight bend where the impact was just passed the A pillar. You needed a 4’ level to see the bend. Obviously if it was a stock cage it would have been bent to chit so I will give props to Speed for that. As for better built suspension, no a-arms or trailing arms were injured on the Polaris.

 
tjZ06 said:
I guess I'll have to go back and look at more pics, but obviously they weren't running the stock exhausts. 

However, THIS would absolutely explain why RG's car was running poorly and he thought he had bad fuel vs. Max's.  That said, I don't love that these things are "locked" into learning/adaptive mode.  Anybody that tunes knows you use learning to get your tune close, then lock it out, tweak it more to your liking and leave learning/adaptive off for *exactly* this reason.  Granted, it's probably why my car woke up so much after a few pulls in 3rd (to really load the thing) but if anything fails (o2 sensor itself, wiring to o2, exhaust leak, etc. etc.) your tune will go totally haywire. 

I think the latter half of your post is correct.  In a tumble like that *something* had to give.  I'd rather have the trailing arm tweak than actually bend the chassis. 

That really does say it all.  Granted, people can, and have made RZRs and X3s work very, very, VERY well with their "flawed" suspension design so I'm not saying the Speed setup is the end-all-be-all but at least it delivers on the geometry promises they made. 

I agree.  Not the test any of us wanted to see... but it does make me feel a little better.  

See my thoughts above, I agree 1000%.  The ECU was like "holy chit this thing is leeeeaaaaaan" since the exhaust/o2 were just floating out in open air.  

-TJ
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Most ECUs have some sort of error handling for something like infinity:1 AFRs and default to a safe/limp map. 

But yeah: computer no happy. 

 
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Dune-Track-N said:
It is funny that he got bad gas but max didn't, wouldn't you think they used the same fuel can? It's only 20gl.... between the two cars.
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This is 90% the problem that people have with speed and RG. If he would just simply say the pipe broke off, we would all understand.. This is racing, chit breaks.. but since the beginning, he lies to cover his azz. I truly believe if he was just up front with everybody since the beginning he would have all the support in the world, it would have been a Cinderella story

 
I read RG say online that the Muffler was removed for weight savings along with the bed, etc.

Bad planning if it impacted the ECU that much, but they might have been scrambling in prep for this sand scramble ...

Speed cars are really starting to come around with performance. This was bound to happen, good for the owners that kept faith. Just stay patient...haha. 

Bummed to read yore experience Chumm at Conye, thats such BS.

 
When was the last time someone got bad Gas???  Sorry, another poor excuse.

 
Another thought on the ECU/tune issue (that was mentioned over on the Speed forum).  The ECU didn't know the pipe was floating out in thin air, not attached to the car.  It's different than actually losing the o2 sensor itself where the PCM *knows it's gone* and can go into a default mode.  

-TJ

 
Cookie said:
When was the last time someone got bad Gas???  Sorry, another poor excuse.
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Remember, they were on E85... so, all the time?  That said, it def seems it was a BS excuse and RG hadn't realized it was his exhaust falling off causing the issue so he pulled that one out of his bag of excuses...

-TJ

 
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