Speed UTV

Rockwood said:
“Internet’s going wild, Robby’s car breaks. Let’s bring a Polaris out. Let’s bring a Can Am out.”

Dumb. Quit it with immediately shitting on other manufacturers. It’s farking oooooooooooooooold.

I gave up listening there since finger pointing and bus throwing makes me go somethingsomething. How was it updated….?
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If those people were there Saturday they would of seen the Can Am X3 ripping up that course and not break.   🤣🤣🤣

 
Start at 14:50 Good video of the break and what happens after. Shows the updated tabs also. 



 
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Real question for you guys.  Have any of you driven or ridden in one? 

I remember a time when a well known member here absolutely ripped off the dune community.  Not once, but twice.  In a very well documented and followed chit show.  Mainly here on gd.com.  Yet today, people line up to leave their cars at his shop and have him do his "magic" on them.  The world is quick to forget, unless your name is Paula Dean...    :ez:  

 
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19 minutes ago, jginsandiego said:

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It has been.  I had a CL while laying on the ground and checking stuff out.  The "flipped over car" didn't do it for me.  I wanted to see the underside of a car that wasn't meant to show me stuff.  Mostly everything is impressive on the car, except the delivery times and Speed being more transparent on production and delivery times.   :ez:

 
21 minutes ago, jginsandiego said:

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Those mounts look the same as the upside down chassis to me. Maybe I'm missing the change. @Marlboroman Did the production car mount look different than the upside down car?

Screenshot_20220918-223621_YouTube~2.jpg

 
mabe it was not a production car and the orignal tab was welded poorly broke and repaired poorly and broke again. we all know how well some of the guys in his shop weld after seeing last years bolt weld job/ also many sand cars have similar size tabs with out gussets and they do fail at that point. sand cars are also a lot heavier on back so maybe a proper weld and a tab that has the pin closer to the tube to reduce the leverage is enough to make iy reliable 

 
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kazuaki said:
Those mounts look the same as the upside down chassis to me. Maybe I'm missing the change. @Marlboroman Did the production car mount look different than the upside down car?

View attachment 43938
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The blue 4 seat had a different tab than the one that broke.  It was a formed "u-shaped" style tab, compared to two tabs welded on individually.  The one that broke, I had commented on it Friday night to my wife that it had been repaired a few times.  She was laughing when I showed her the video of it breaking.  :ez:

 
kazuaki said:
Those mounts look the same as the upside down chassis to me. Maybe I'm missing the change. @Marlboroman Did the production car mount look different than the upside down car?

View attachment 43938
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Found this photo on FB, this is what I saw while relaxing under the car.  I may or may not have been looking for my lighter at the same time... :ez:

307775014_5390635390990993_9146940078443072510_n.jpg

 
kazuaki said:
Those mounts look the same as the upside down chassis to me. Maybe I'm missing the change. @Marlboroman Did the production car mount look different than the upside down car?

View attachment 43938
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From what I herd on this afternoon, (Sunday afternoon at the ssss) the newer trailing arm pivot mount has an opening in the center of it to add more weld to the torsion tube to prevent the  arm from ripping off. After the demo I look at the cars on display they had said opening. 
 

PS. I have no dog in this battle I’m a sandrail guy, just here for facts

 
Drupanddown said:
From what I herd on this afternoon, (Sunday afternoon at the ssss) the newer trailing arm pivot mount has an opening in the center of it to add more weld to the torsion tube to prevent the  arm from ripping off. After the demo I look at the cars on display they had said opening. 
 

PS. I have no dog in this battle I’m a sandrail guy, just here for facts
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It did have the opening and also a once piece gusset formed into a U.  The center being left open for a rosette type of weld. :ez:

 
NIKAL said:
Since we are talking tech and not crap I’ll throw my two cents in. 
 

Someone mentioned transparency and why when this broke was the world not told. It was an early issue that was easily addressed and if you were around talking with them they would tell you. Plus in one video Robby in a round about way tells you of the problem and why they went to a U shaped tab. 
 

What had happened is the pre production cars with poor welds, bolts etc.. had a two tab trailing arm mount that was welded all the way around each tab. But during the weld process the tabs would distort with heat. So the spread might be 1/8 to 3/16 off. When you put the trailing arm in between the tabs and tighten them. The tabs bent in. Between the poor welds & distortion they believe this is what was causing the issue. The plan was to add a spacer that acted like the trailing arm to keep it right when welding. But that’s extra labor and how does the robot weld around it?

By making a U shaped tab they solve the tolerance issues at welding, it allows for more surface area of weld. Instead of only two tabs welded you have 3 inches top & bottom along the tube, then you have each side of the tab. Then they added the rosette hole in the center of the U tab. I personally would like to see an outer corner gusset on the sides of the tab and or a plate tying both tab pieces together farther out at the pivot. This is something that could be easily done or done by the consumer if they have access and know how to weld. But with this fix that might not be necessary.  

The outer pivot tab is a forged part that also sleeves into the lower chassis tube, so that one is not of concern to me. Your going to have bigger issues if you rip that mount out of the chassis. 

Once I have a car in my garage and I’m doing my personal prep of checking everything, paint marking the bolts, taping the axles, installing all my goodies etc.. I will look at those pivots and see if I should weld a small corner gusset in there. Might have to pull the fuel tank on the right side? 
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Tech yes.  Crap no.  I'm not a fan of all the chit being thrown about Speed these days.  I remember the first time I was figuring out how to mass produce some parts.  It was a pain in the rear end!  And it was on a very small scale.  I can't imagine what hurdles had to be crossed wot build a full car from practically the ground up. 

 Assuming it's still a problem (only time will tell), I would probably weld a couple of corner gussets on the inner.  The outside, Not to sure.  I would have to have a CL with slappy while we talk about riding on the North side of the 78. :ez:

 
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NIKAL said:
Since we are talking tech and not crap I’ll throw my two cents in. 
 

Someone mentioned transparency and why when this broke was the world not told. It was an early issue that was easily addressed and if you were around talking with them they would tell you. Plus in one video Robby in a round about way tells you of the problem and why they went to a U shaped tab. 
 

What had happened is the pre production cars with poor welds, bolts etc.. had a two tab trailing arm mount that was welded all the way around each tab. But during the weld process the tabs would distort with heat. So the spread might be 1/8 to 3/16 off. When you put the trailing arm in between the tabs and tighten them. The tabs bent in. Between the poor welds & distortion they believe this is what was causing the issue. The plan was to add a spacer that acted like the trailing arm to keep it right when welding. But that’s extra labor and how does the robot weld around it?

By making a U shaped tab they solve the tolerance issues at welding, it allows for more surface area of weld. Instead of only two tabs welded you have 3 inches top & bottom along the tube, then you have each side of the tab. Then they added the rosette hole in the center of the U tab. I personally would like to see an outer corner gusset on the sides of the tab and or a plate tying both tab pieces together farther out at the pivot. This is something that could be easily done or done by the consumer if they have access and know how to weld. But with this fix that might not be necessary.  

The outer pivot tab is a forged part that also sleeves into the lower chassis tube, so that one is not of concern to me. Your going to have bigger issues if you rip that mount out of the chassis. 

Once I have a car in my garage and I’m doing my personal prep of checking everything, paint marking the bolts, taping the axles, installing all my goodies etc.. I will look at those pivots and see if I should weld a small corner gusset in there. Might have to pull the fuel tank on the right side? 
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We shall see soon enough if the correction Speed made works.  Seems like it is a simple fix.    

A little ribbing about the tab breaking is what happens when RG talks about the other manufactures pivot points being weak and then you break one of yours.  

Reality is know one will remember it once the cars are out and about in the desert and dunes.    

 
NIKAL said:
Since we are talking tech and not crap I’ll throw my two cents in. 
 

Someone mentioned transparency and why when this broke was the world not told. It was an early issue that was easily addressed and if you were around talking with them they would tell you. Plus in one video Robby in a round about way tells you of the problem and why they went to a U shaped tab. 
 

What had happened is the pre production cars with poor welds, bolts etc.. had a two tab trailing arm mount that was welded all the way around each tab. But during the weld process the tabs would distort with heat. So the spread might be 1/8 to 3/16 off. When you put the trailing arm in between the tabs and tighten them. The tabs bent in. Between the poor welds & distortion they believe this is what was causing the issue. The plan was to add a spacer that acted like the trailing arm to keep it right when welding. But that’s extra labor and how does the robot weld around it?

By making a U shaped tab they solve the tolerance issues at welding, it allows for more surface area of weld. Instead of only two tabs welded you have 3 inches top & bottom along the tube, then you have each side of the tab. Then they added the rosette hole in the center of the U tab. I personally would like to see an outer corner gusset on the sides of the tab and or a plate tying both tab pieces together farther out at the pivot. This is something that could be easily done or done by the consumer if they have access and know how to weld. But with this fix that might not be necessary.  

The outer pivot tab is a forged part that also sleeves into the lower chassis tube, so that one is not of concern to me. Your going to have bigger issues if you rip that mount out of the chassis. 

Once I have a car in my garage and I’m doing my personal prep of checking everything, paint marking the bolts, taping the axles, installing all my goodies etc.. I will look at those pivots and see if I should weld a small corner gusset in there. Might have to pull the fuel tank on the right side? 
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I don't think the problem is how the mount is affixed to the chassis, but more the mount itself.  It's a couple 2D 1/4" tabs sticking out, and it failed because the tabs are just chillin out there with no support.  Look at where it broke:

View attachment 43791

Even the whack-ass booger welds in the middle held, it's the tab itself that failed.  Adding more weld to the middle of the mount isn't gonna help.  Every time you hit a bump, camber changes, drifting, etc, you're putting lateral stress on a 2D part.  Like you said: tying the tab horizontally to the tube, or tying them together, is the solution here.

Forged tab will be nice and super strong forged steel everywhere but the welds, where the grain structure will look more like a cast piece.  On the outer pivot, putting it into the end of a tube works great (like the inner C of a steering live axle) since you're putting the weaker welded part on the thick-ass slug.   With the inner pivot tabs, you've put the weld at the base of the tab, which isn't the most awesome place to put your weak point.

We shall see, but as stout as this chassis is, I think the suspension mounts themselves are the likeliest place for failure, both front and rear.  Rear is an easy fix even if it fails...  Assuming it didn't fail at 70mph on Zoo Road. :biggrin:

 
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So was there anything positive from Speed at the show? I'm not bashing him or the car. It will be nice once they are up and running. Has a delivery date for any car been announced? I don't care how they would of had to do it but a car should of been delivered at the SSSS.

 
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