Speed UTV

I'm actually rooting for the success of this ride just stick it to the 'big' MFRs who put out recall, sub-standard products.

That being said, I'm sure a SPEED KEY version would smoke my Turbo S on a hill shot, but how will they stack up in the dunes? With a decent machine it's 95% driver IMO. Not a lot of 'fast movers' out there (to each his own). 

Probably will be 'best' for desert Baja fast moving... but I don't see it being superior duning in Glamis VS. a modern ride with Turbo and good suspension, etc.

Have a friend with one on order and I can't wait to 'race' him. He has the SPEED key, but isn't sure when he'll 'plug it in.'

abc

 
ANGRYBUTTCRACK said:
I'm actually rooting for the success of this ride just stick it to the 'big' MFRs who put out recall, sub-standard products.

That being said, I'm sure a SPEED KEY version would smoke my Turbo S on a hill shot, but how will they stack up in the dunes? With a decent machine it's 95% driver IMO. Not a lot of 'fast movers' out there (to each his own). 

Probably will be 'best' for desert Baja fast moving... but I don't see it being superior duning in Glamis VS. a modern ride with Turbo and good suspension, etc.

Have a friend with one on order and I can't wait to 'race' him. He has the SPEED key, but isn't sure when he'll 'plug it in.'

abc
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I don't think it will matter to the big guys like Polaris or Can Am.  RG is still a small fish in the pond right now.  It will be nice to see the Speed UTV running around in Glamis and the desert. 

 
Sand Shark said:
You have your trusty Wildcat X.  I am surprised people are selling their spots at cost.  I figured they would be trying to make a few bucks off their low golden ticket number.
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The number was not all that low, just in before the price increase an $1 speed key.  I would really not want a super low number anyway.

 
ANGRYBUTTCRACK said:
I'm actually rooting for the success of this ride just stick it to the 'big' MFRs who put out recall, sub-standard products.

That being said, I'm sure a SPEED KEY version would smoke my Turbo S on a hill shot, but how will they stack up in the dunes? With a decent machine it's 95% driver IMO. Not a lot of 'fast movers' out there (to each his own). 

Probably will be 'best' for desert Baja fast moving... but I don't see it being superior duning in Glamis VS. a modern ride with Turbo and good suspension, etc.

Have a friend with one on order and I can't wait to 'race' him. He has the SPEED key, but isn't sure when he'll 'plug it in.'

abc
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I doubt as well that the Big guys will care much other than learning from the car. Unless he hits it big and becomes that UNICORN.  Look at Tesla -  GM sells in 2 days what Tesla sells all year, although profitability, Tesla is proving they can be more profitable.  If RG gets that far, he could follow that same trajectory.

Personally I think if it ever sees the light of day it will destroy traditional SxS's in the dunes and I highly doubt you will see them on the Lid nearly as often as you see Pol larry's  and Canned Hams (basically every other dune on busy weekend)  the CG is much lower, the geometry is better and the "powerband" should be more predictable (vs the standard SxS clutch arrangement, and you will not have to drive them as hard or be as good a driver to get "experience" you want.

 
Fullthrottleguy said:
Personally I think if it ever sees the light of day it will destroy traditional SxS's in the dunes and I highly doubt you will see them on the Lid nearly as often as you see Pol larry's  and Canned Hams (basically every other dune on busy weekend)  the CG is much lower, the geometry is better and the "powerband" should be more predictable (vs the standard SxS clutch arrangement, and you will not have to drive them as hard or be as good a driver to get "experience" you want.
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I would think that you won't see as many on the lid because it is not an entry level car.  Joe Shmo won't be able to walk into the local stealership and get the payment he wants, a bunch of rebates, dealer/ manufacturing incentives or  "sale" pricing to make him feel like he got a good deal.  Your just not going to be getting that on the Speed car.  EVER.

 
Fullthrottleguy said:
I doubt as well that the Big guys will care much other than learning from the car. Unless he hits it big and becomes that UNICORN.  Look at Tesla -  GM sells in 2 days what Tesla sells all year, although profitability, Tesla is proving they can be more profitable.  If RG gets that far, he could follow that same trajectory.

Personally I think if it ever sees the light of day it will destroy traditional SxS's in the dunes and I highly doubt you will see them on the Lid nearly as often as you see Pol larry's  and Canned Hams (basically every other dune on busy weekend)  the CG is much lower, the geometry is better and the "powerband" should be more predictable (vs the standard SxS clutch arrangement, and you will not have to drive them as hard or be as good a driver to get "experience" you want.
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Those things will be on their lids just as much as the other SXSs, if not more.   You don't think the owners will not try to drive it like RG?   I am not sure the center of gravity is any lower.  Powerband will not be any different than any other CVT driven SXS.  There is no magic CVT clutch in that Speed UTV.  They are all pretty predictable powerbands. 

What you see in Glamis is a lot of people driving well beyond their skill set of sand highway.  There are certainly some "oops" moments mixed in there as Crap happens to even the good drivers. 

I just do not see the Speed UTV destroying the X3 or Polaris in the dunes.    

 
Sand Shark said:
Those things will be on their lids just as much as the other SXSs, if not more.   You don't think the owners will not try to drive it like RG?   I am not sure the center of gravity is any lower.  Powerband will not be any different than any other CVT driven SXS.  There is no magic CVT clutch in that Speed UTV.  They are all pretty predictable powerbands. 

What you see in Glamis is a lot of people driving well beyond their skill set of sand highway.  There are certainly some "oops" moments mixed in there as Crap happens to even the good drivers. 

I just do not see the Speed UTV destroying the X3 or Polaris in the dunes.    
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I might be buying into Robbie's "superior powerband and gearing"   and him saying its a lower CG.  Of course everyone will drive it beyond its limits.. and since no one has driven one yet - he could be lying about the capabilities.  

What make me belive that "less" will be on on their lid is that I believe it has a lower CG and I believe he will have the suspension dialed better. 

If you Believe Shock Therapy (and well most people would not believe Justin if said the sun was coming up tomorrow, ...)  But they do say the right suspension tuning significantly helps not to put those cars on their lid. 

I am no "RG Speed Fan Boi"  but I still think the speed will dust andy stock SxS in the dunes  - Until I am proven wrong  I will stand on that  ...

 
Sand Shark said:
Those things will be on their lids just as much as the other SXSs, if not more.   You don't think the owners will not try to drive it like RG?   I am not sure the center of gravity is any lower.  Powerband will not be any different than any other CVT driven SXS.  There is no magic CVT clutch in that Speed UTV.  They are all pretty predictable powerbands. 

What you see in Glamis is a lot of people driving well beyond their skill set of sand highway.  There are certainly some "oops" moments mixed in there as Crap happens to even the good drivers. 

I just do not see the Speed UTV destroying the X3 or Polaris in the dunes.    
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Disagree.  They're wider, and the CG is lower, but neither of those things are the kicker.  The kicker is proper susp geometry with very little track-width change across the travel.  The design of both the RZR and X3 rear suspension causes it to narrow up and get taller and narrow up at all the wrong times.  

That said, it's all down to driver.  I've put a ton of time on 64" RZRs with their "bad" suspension design in G and haven't put one on its lid (of course, now I'm for-sure rolling 0.03 seconds into dune season this year).  I follow cars like Funcos, and/or go on pretty fast RZR rides with it.  It's not perfect, and I'm faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from it.  But if you don't expect it to be a Trophy Truck or a Funco, it's a pretty kick-ass fun little machine for what it is.

-TJ

 
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tjZ06 said:
Disagree.  They're wider, and the CG is lower, but neither of those things are the kicker.  The kicker is proper susp geometry with very little track-width change across the travel.  The design of both the RZR and X3 rear suspension causes it to narrow up and get taller and narrow up at all the wrong times.  

That said, it's all down to driver.  I've put a ton of time on 64" RZRs with their "bad" suspension design in G and haven't put one on its lid (of course, now I'm for-sure rolling 0.03 seconds into dune season this year).  I follow cars like Funcos, and/or go on pretty fast RZR rides with it.  It's not perfect, and I'm faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from it.  But if you don't expect it to be a Trophy Truck or a Funco, it's a pretty kick-ass fun little machine for what it is.

-TJ
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The X3 72" models and the Turbo S are between 78" - 80" wide with paddle tire set ups.  The X3 center of gravity is pretty low and I do not see the Speed UTV having a lower center of gravity.  Can't compare the Speed to the 64" models as Speed does not make a 64" model.  

Suspension of the Speed UTV in theory should be better, but that remains to be seen.  Nobody has seen what the production car valving and shock set up will be like and how it will perform.  The valving will be different than the pre-production set up as those cars were not set to pass the roll test.

The Wildcat XX has great suspension geometry and lower center of gravity and it is not leaving the n/a RZR in the dust. 

I think the "bad" suspension geometry is not as horrific as RG has made it.  If it was so horrible we would all be either crashing and completely out of control the entire time.   He has to sell units and tell you why his product is different and better.   

I found my XP1000 and X3 very predictable handling wise.  

 
Fullthrottleguy said:
I might be buying into Robbie's "superior powerband and gearing"   and him saying its a lower CG.  Of course everyone will drive it beyond its limits.. and since no one has driven one yet - he could be lying about the capabilities.  

What make me belive that "less" will be on on their lid is that I believe it has a lower CG and I believe he will have the suspension dialed better. 

If you Believe Shock Therapy (and well most people would not believe Justin if said the sun was coming up tomorrow, ...)  But they do say the right suspension tuning significantly helps not to put those cars on their lid. 

I am no "RG Speed Fan Boi"  but I still think the speed will dust andy stock SxS in the dunes  - Until I am proven wrong  I will stand on that  ...
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I would agree the Speed UTV should blow away the other UTVs in the desert.  Stock for Stock.   In the dunes I do not think it will happen against a stock X3 or Turbo S.   Can Am improved the valving and shock set up in the newer models and the Turbo S with the live valve works really well as does the Can Am with the Smart Shocks.   

Justin knows suspension and is a sharp dude when it comes to suspension.   He is correct that suspension tuning helps a lot.  For example, my XP1000 I had Shock Therapy do the suspension and sway bar.  After his work I was easily driving 10mph faster in areas because the shocks could soak up things better and the overall handling of the car improved by a lot. 

My X3 I ran stock suspension for a season in the dunes and it was fine.  In the desert it was miserable as the shocks would bounce off stuff and it was a rough ride.  The bump steer made the car dart in the desert, which was made worse by the off-set wheel I was running at the time.  I did a step by step change in my suspension staring off with a spring kit and changing sway bars to having my shocks done the first time around by Ed "Poundsand".  I can tell you what each change did to the handling.  The icing on the cake was the valving and shock work as it was a huge improvement.  I was able to drive faster and the car was even more stable.   I did a tie-rod kit that helped with the bump steer and the car was much better.  I had my shocks done a second time by Tom Morris at UTV Shocks.  His work made my X3 handle even better.  It was interesting to see what a difference there was between shock tuners. 

My new X3 I had Tom Morris do the shocks.  I have not taken the new car out yet. 

I believe that RG will have to change the ride height and valving of the shocks to allow the car to pass the roll test.  Plus RG does have an advantage in that Speed UTV is being set up for the desert so he can gear the shock set up to that.  Can Am and Polaris have to do a more generic set up that works in a all sorts of areas.  

I guess at some point in 2022 we will see how the Speed UTV does in the dunes. 

 
Sand Shark said:
I think the "bad" suspension geometry is not as horrific as RG has made it.  If it was so horrible we would all be either crashing and completely out of control the entire time.  
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A LOT of people crash SxSs all the time on stuff that makes no sense to crash on.  Again, I have no problem with mine and rather enjoy it... but there's def truth to what RG is saying (just jack yours up and watch the tires travel inward...).

-TJ

 
The biggest reason you see so many Can Ams and Polaris's on  the lid and crashed is simple......

There are so many. 

Sit out at the Swingset and 90% of the Side by Sides are either Rzr's or X-3's . So naturally they are going to seem to be over driven the most because they are driven the most.  Add to that that Can-am and Polaris make it easy to sign and drive for anybody who has a pulse. 

Sit out in the dunes on a ridge between any of the destination points and you would be shocked at the number of groups who have no idea what so ever how to dune. They straight line up and over, up and down because the GPS is telling them there destination is 1/4 mile directly in front of them. I have actually seen a group of 5 cars transition over a dune go to the bottom of the bowl, diamond the bottom of the bowl go up and straight over the other side 20 feet away from where the first guy transitioned .  It's laughable and scary at the same time.

Once the Speed Car is out there I am going to guess you will see more Yamaha YXZ's in a weekend then you will Speed cars, Hell even if every Speed owner was out in the dunes on one weekend. There still wouldn't seem like there are that many.  Add to that like I said earlier they will be driven by the guy's who think they are Robby but at least know they are not. Oh they will push them hard I am sure and some will end up on the lid but it won't be because of a rookie driver. 

 
Sand Shark said:
I would agree the Speed UTV should blow away the other UTVs in the desert.  Stock for Stock.   In the dunes I do not think it will happen against a stock X3 or Turbo S.   Can Am improved the valving and shock set up in the newer models and the Turbo S with the live valve works really well as does the Can Am with the Smart Shocks.   

Justin knows suspension and is a sharp dude when it comes to suspension.   He is correct that suspension tuning helps a lot.  For example, my XP1000 I had Shock Therapy do the suspension and sway bar.  After his work I was easily driving 10mph faster in areas because the shocks could soak up things better and the overall handling of the car improved by a lot. 

My X3 I ran stock suspension for a season in the dunes and it was fine.  In the desert it was miserable as the shocks would bounce off stuff and it was a rough ride.  The bump steer made the car dart in the desert, which was made worse by the off-set wheel I was running at the time.  I did a step by step change in my suspension staring off with a spring kit and changing sway bars to having my shocks done the first time around by Ed "Poundsand".  I can tell you what each change did to the handling.  The icing on the cake was the valving and shock work as it was a huge improvement.  I was able to drive faster and the car was even more stable.   I did a tie-rod kit that helped with the bump steer and the car was much better.  I had my shocks done a second time by Tom Morris at UTV Shocks.  His work made my X3 handle even better.  It was interesting to see what a difference there was between shock tuners. 

My new X3 I had Tom Morris do the shocks.  I have not taken the new car out yet. 

I believe that RG will have to change the ride height and valving of the shocks to allow the car to pass the roll test.  Plus RG does have an advantage in that Speed UTV is being set up for the desert so he can gear the shock set up to that.  Can Am and Polaris have to do a more generic set up that works in a all sorts of areas.  

I guess at some point in 2022 we will see how the Speed UTV does in the dunes. 
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RG has a lot more issues currently than worrying about the quality of the suspension. Mark my word, the few that end up getting a car will end up with a one off car that will have no customer service availability from Speed. Try purchasing replacement parts for this oddball car in 2024. It's not going to happen. Everything looks good on paper or with lip service! But that's just a small part of owning a quality SXS brand. 

 
tjZ06 said:
A LOT of people crash SxSs all the time on stuff that makes no sense to crash on.  Again, I have no problem with mine and rather enjoy it... but there's def truth to what RG is saying (just jack yours up and watch the tires travel inward...).

-TJ
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I agree there are some head shakers, but then you watch the way some drive and you get why it happens. 

 
buff said:
RG has a lot more issues currently than worrying about the quality of the suspension. Mark my word, the few that end up getting a car will end up with a one off car that will have no customer service availability from Speed. Try purchasing replacement parts for this oddball car in 2024. It's not going to happen. Everything looks good on paper or with lip service! But that's just a small part of owning a quality SXS brand. 
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Lol.  The "expert" is back! 

-TJ

 
I would sorta be upset if I had some money involved.  Could be the start of the end?  I thought I read that he wouldn’t be doing any racing till the Speed cars got delivered.   

4DA751D9-19B8-47EE-BE74-C4B342979135.jpeg

 
tjZ06 said:
Lol.  The "expert" is back! 

-TJ
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So far he has been pretty spot on with his "expert" opinions.  Meanwhile the masses were all thinking they would have their Speed UTV cars before this season started. How is that looking ? 

 
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