Speed UTV

NIKAL said:
They have not. Robby said he really does not see it being necessary. Sure for the pure sand guys they will like the extra HP, but he said the 230 is more then enough power for this car, and the throttle position data while testing has been showing at 40-50% open at 50 & 60 mph. So your not at 100% very often. 
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I wrote an email to a while back I asked if it would be beneficial to run gas station E85 vs. gas station 91 Oct with no speed key. I did so because E85 is less costly and if it works with the speed key to add some more HP/TQ depending on ratio then I thought it would helpful in someway for extending engine life and mabey keep things cooler. I know MPH decreases with E85 but that does not bother me. They said basically no need and dont use it if no speed key. We did not get into detail it was a quick email

 
These cars will be super phreaking awesome in the desert / dirt.

The seat of the pants fun factor will be the same as any current top model because of power to weight ratio, that's just physics.

Not being broke down in camp because of crappy design stuff is a huge plus though.

Kind of wished I had put down the $ for a Basic model El Jeffe  :dunno:

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Here is where RG will be at ~12:30pm today if you’re in the Parker area and want a Ride with him!! Pretty sweet. 

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Sean@Weddle said:
To specifically address your valid concern on leaving it in 3rd and coming to a dead stop:

In a typical sequential (or dog engagement) gearbox, you cannot generally shift into gear if the vehicle is not rolling. This is due to the dogs on the gears and selector slider being lined up "dog-on-dog", and physically preventing you from selecting the next gear until you roll the vehicle and allow the gears to rotate enough to allow selector slider/dogs to engage the gear. (Think trying to shift a dirtbike/quad into gear at a stop, and you have to roll a bit to get the shifter to click up into gear).

The Speed UTV gearbox has a newish idea built into the forks that will allow you to move the shifter into the gear you are trying to engage while the vehicle is stopped, even if the dogs on the gears are lined up. There is a spring mechanism that will load the fork into the gear once the gears rotate to let the dogs slip in and engage. You will be able to move the shifter into every gear at a stop, and once you start rolling, you might hear a clunk as the gears rotate and dogs are forced into the gear by the spring.

Polaris, Can-Am, and Arctic-Cat all use the same type of mechanism, although a bit more primitive and not as stout to allow for on-the-fly shifting. This is why you will occasionally shift into high gear, then hear a clunk once the secondary clutch turns the input shaft when you start rolling. That is the spring pushing the fork into gear once the gear rotates enough to let the dogs engage.

The specific type of damage that will most likely occur to the Speed UTV gearbox when people decide to shift them, will be due to the lack of know how and coordination of preloading the shift lever, then lifting off the throttle and quickly pulling the shift lever into the next gear. The people who will lazily pull the shift lever or don't have the hand/foot coordination to lift and shift at the same time will be causing damage to the dogs. It's not so much the proper RPM that you shift at, but how you prepare to shift, lift off the throttle, and yank on the shift lever in less than .5 seconds. 

Fun quick story: At one of the Lucas Oil races working on RJ's Pro4 truck we swapped out the Albins trans for some different ratio's. Before firing the truck, we just grabbed the shift lever and got through all 6 gears without turning anything. Just dumb luck that all 6 gears were lined up in a way that allowed for this. Went out and RJ won that race.
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Will this newish idea you speak of become available anytime soon in your other sequential transmissions for sand cars, etc. ?

BTW in all of the years that I’ve been driving sand cars with sequential transmissions, since about 2004, I don’t recall a single time when my gears lined up so I could down shift after an emergency stop. 

 
Big_Daddy_Jp said:
So in your post you cleared up two things for me. First, it seems people are making the trans a huge selling point for Speed. Uninformed people such as Fog, won’t know that it’s not needed. Yet if you tell everyone to just leave it in 2nd and rip it, than everyone else will bash that it isn’t any different than a Polaris or CanAm! The point I was making is more than likely, almost all people buying the speed will be for recreational purposes and the sequential trans won’t be needed thus making it a weak sales pitch.

Then we come to the second point. I usually pride myself in trying to see both sides of everything before I open my mouth. It seems I have failed on this subject! Although my thought process of the sequential is still the same, I didn’t factor in Joe public that can’t drive worth a chit or even follow manufactures recommendations! If there are that many people out there that aren’t coming to a stop before shifting from low to high and trashing the gearboxes than the sequential is a GREAT idea! If you will excuse me, I have some crow to eat. Carry on!
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Why do you think that I’m uninformed?

Do you know what I know and don’t know?

Do you know what off road and mechanical experience I have?

 
FOG said:
Why do you think that I’m uninformed?

Do you know what I know and don’t know?

Do you know what off road and mechanical experience I have?
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It was not a jab at you. You are asking the questions which means you are uninformed. Unless you are just asking the questions so that joe public can be informed? If that’s the case than I am sorry.

 
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DTA said:
Have you ever shifted a dirt bike without a clutch?
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I’m not sure why you are asking me this question. Have you ever driven a semi? I mean I could ask if you’ve ever shifted a 15 speed without a clutch but those that know, know.

 
Sand Shark said:
Not many try to shift on the fly with the current SXSs.  Those that do probably should not own one to begin with and probably also try shift on the fly their daily drivers.  LOL!

FOG is not uninformed he is just equating it to what he has in his sandcar, which I think many sandrail owners and desert car owners would think when they read sequential.   The correct way to advertise it is the ability to shift on the fly from high to low and low to high.  It would make it so people understand, but the word sequential shifter is a sexier term for sales. 

The selling point of the Speed UTV is the overall design and the value of the price for those that locked in the early pricing.   The value will not be there as much if you were to buy one today.  

The design looks great, but how it equates to real world application in the hands of the public remains to be seen.  At least RG was smart in setting the speed limiter to 85ish miles per hour, even though he posted a video of him doing 100mph on a hardpacked road with the hood piece flying off.  
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I agree with what your saying except for one small detail. If sand car owners that have sequentials in their rails are wondering if this sequential will work the same, than indeed they are uninformed. People are hyping up this transmission without any real info on how it works thus keeping everyone uninformed. Can you see where I’m going with this?

 
Big_Daddy_Jp said:
It was not a jab at you. You are asking the questions which means you are uninformed. Unless you are just asking the questions so that joe public can be informed? If that’s the case than I am sorry.
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I accept your apology. 
Carry on. 

 
NIKAL said:
They have not. Robby said he really does not see it being necessary. Sure for the pure sand guys they will like the extra HP, but he said the 230 is more then enough power for this car, and the throttle position data while testing has been showing at 40-50% open at 50 & 60 mph. So your not at 100% very often. 
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I would think they would want to do some durability testing with the E85 tune.   

The people that are at 100% throttle more than 50% of the time are the ones that have the resulting pictures posted on the Boardmanville IG page.  LOL!

 
Big_Daddy_Jp said:
I agree with what your saying except for one small detail. If sand car owners that have sequentials in their rails are wondering if this sequential will work the same, than indeed they are uninformed. People are hyping up this transmission without any real info on how it works thus keeping everyone uninformed. Can you see where I’m going with this?
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What I was trying to get at is some may think they they have to drive it like a rail and row through the gears.   When the reality is you put in 2nd(high gear) and go just like every other SXS that runs a CVT. 

 
Sand Shark said:
What I was trying to get at is some may think they they have to drive it like a rail and row through the gears.   When the reality is you put in 2nd(high gear) and go just like every other SXS that runs a CVT. 
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Yes we are saying the same thing. 

 
NIKAL said:
They have already done quite a bit of testing on E85 in the past and on the dyno. The final testing they are doing now is more function and logging miles to see how things last or wear. They already know the parts will hold the additional hp. Sure more HP could accelerate the wear, but the little issues they are finding and addressing are not effected by HP or tunes. And if the configuration they are running is able to do 102 mph I think they are going to see the details that need to be addressed without spending more time on E85. 
 

When talking to Rob Harris, he and I’d guess Robby know that less then 15% will ever use a Speed Key tune. At first more might only because they are getting it virtually for free. But buyers after Dec 2020 I think , have to pay the full price of $1,250 for the Speed Key accessory. I’d be shocked if 1 of 10 sold at the dealerships buys the Speed Key. Robby has been saying and reconfirm it this past show that this car does not really need more then the 230hp in the stock tune. He’s been very impressed with the power and how it gets to the ground.  I’d guess only pure dune guys would be the ones to want the Speed Key. 
 

Unless the Speed Key tune unlocks other features, without needing to run E85, then I know I will never turn it on. It’s actually a disadvantage for me as you will see a loss in Mileage on E85. 
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I think you are correct. The only place the extra hp will be needed is in the sand. Unless you are one of the minority that bought it to race Baja!

 
Big_Daddy_Jp said:
I think you are correct. The only place the extra hp will be needed is in the sand. Unless you are one of the minority that bought it to race Baja!
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E-85 is a PIA IMO, if you have ever run it in a vehicle you don't use "often"  unlike a FlexFuel daily driver where its mostly OK.

I have run it in my race car, my hot rod, my sand car, and set up a few LS sand cars for it including FlexFuel sensor on the ECM... If you really want the HP and are willing to deal with all the extra work that comes along with it, its an affordable alternative to race gas (and 02 sensor friendly - kinda) especially for anything boosted - its amazing and 40% more fuel consumption is worth it.

I agree most people that are not trying to toast their buddy with a Canned Ham Turbo on E85  won't need it or bother even if they have the SPPED key.

Where I disagree is that $1250 or even $2000 is a deterrent to anyone that wants more HP, especially if its financed ... Seeing some people signing paperwork for ~65K RZR's has convinced me. its like a "middle-aged guy" buying a Red Corvette.

I still believe the SPEED if it makes it to MASS production is the best value in the SxS market for the high end, if not the best overall design

 
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