Speed UTV

Sean@Weddle said:
Two different gearboxes is more expensive to make than one. 

As mentioned, the vast majority of people who will be using these cars in a recreational way, will never need to shift them on the fly. 1st gear is still really low for crawling/slow speed technical sections, and 3rd gear is too tall to really use for anything other than an overdrive. 2nd gear will be the best gear to use, and let the CVT work as intended. 

I don't know how Speed UTV is going to approach the shifting aspects. I have had a brief conversation with Robby a few weeks ago about this. Robby was considering language in the user manual along the lines of what I said above, that is the last that I heard about this.

For what it's worth, I highly suggested using some sort of lock out feature that would prevent these from being shifted on the fly. That lockout feature would need to be removed for shift on the fly operation, and therefore would void any warranty on the gearbox. This lockout would be a complicated feature to design and implement, so it was decided to move forward without it.

Regarding the aspect of shifting through the gears to improve belt life/efficiency, this is really only something that sound good on paper, but there is no real data to back this up. I have put a lot of thought into this over the past few years, and there are some aspects that are simply unknown until it is implemented. 

I do know that the Speed UTV team has been playing around with shifting these as seen in some of the videos, and that part does seem to be working so far. The effect it has on belt life is yet to be seen. 

Also, I do not speak for Speed UTV. All I can do here is respond to specific questions about gearbox and front diff that I am a small part of. 
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Thanks again for another great explanation of the Speed UTV sequential trans. I now have a better understanding of it’s intended use and the draw backs. 

 
Banshee2001 said:
https://www.instagram.com/tv/Capn7DApvvY/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

Start at 6:40 for your answer. 50 cars are in production for fit and finish 10 of the cars they are keeping and if all fit and finish is good 40 of the cars will be customer cars. Full production is predicted to start begging of April. 
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Robby clarified that afterwords, he meant 50 cars would start production beginning of April.  If everything checks out with fit and finish, full production would start after that. 

 
NIKAL said:
@FOG & @Fullthrottleguy I think what might be overlooked is the Speed UTV is to be the Ferrari or GT40 of the UTV. Or at least that’s how Speed sees it compared to what’s out there. Or how the other companies have started by building utility vehicles first before jumping into the high performance sport machines. They went head on into the high performance segment. 
 

The Pro & X3 are the Mustangs & Corvette for Polaris & Can Am. Like a Mustang or Corvette the average Joe can buy & drive one and they are cool. Anyone with money can buy a Ferrari too. But that does not mean they should or know how to drive one.  
 

Another way to think about it is should a guy used to driving a Automatic Ford or Honda just jump in a buggy with 600+ hp and a Albins gearbox? Probably not! I’m not thinking the clutch wont like it, I’m thinking the gearbox will not like it, and the Hp will probably get the guy hurt. 
 

Sure a first time buyer might buy a Speed UTV, but I’d guess 99% of current pre orders are from experienced UTV or buggy owners. So hopefully that will help the learning curve? 
 

Just because the Speed UTV has the ability to shift on the fly does not mean you have to or need to. And like a Ferrari that can go 80mph in second gear and 200 in 5th or 6th gear does not mean you need or will go 200 mph. 
 

Like Sean said it’s not necessary and IMO is more novelty for most.  I won’t use it, except for going from high to Overdrive when in Baja. But in my local deserts it’s not a feature that I will use. Just like I probably will never use the full locker front diff either. But it’s nice to know I’ll have it. I’ll also never use E85, but cool yo know I can! 
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That arguement falls apart really quickly ....

Great to Think Speed is the Ferrari or Ford GT (not the $3M 1965 Ford GT40) of the UTV world  - But its not  -- you see those cars are Out of the reach of "Newbie Normies" because they cost 3 to 10x the cost of a Ford Mustang

Same is true for a Sand car with an Albins - those cars NEW are well north of 200K ( trans is 34k or more all in .. alone)  even used they out of the price range of most newbies (and you can't easily finance them) and I have seen many S4's with bad Dogs because the person bought a used car with a sequential and tried to drive it like an H pattern car - but the population of those cars is far less than a full production UTV  many 1/100th the size.

Statistics and numbers don't lie ..

The beauty of the Speed is that right now its CHEAPER than a loaded Blinged out X3 or RZR - so any Newie can afford it ... and get it financed - race car in the hands of toddlers!

No one without a family and lots of bills  says "Hey if they give me a Ferrari for the price of Mustang I am going to turn it down, I'd   rather have the Mustang  for the same price"

And even more importantly - In Theory the Speed should be more reliable than other SxS because of design and build quality - Ferraris start falling apart the minute you drive them (been there)

Never underestimate the ability of Newbies not to read the instructions and break things - If a Shift lever is there they will pull it ....

 
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So let’s be clear on the Speed UTV car. It’s getting old hearing that this car has been dreamed up, put into cad, and built in 2 years. Quit selling this BS to people that don’t know any better! We know that the suspension was an aftermarket set up for the XX. Not only that, the car looks like a bigger version of the XX which Robby was a big part of. Basically, the Speed UTV is what Robby was trying to build the XX Into but was shut down. Tons of the Speed UTV is built from things already in motion from several years prior. All of the bad azz tig welded suspension pics are from something that was designed several years ago. So all suspension is tig welded while the rest is computer splated like the other manufactures. Yes if you were an original deposit owner you will get tons of car for your money. IF THE CAR EVER MAKES IT TO PRODUCTION! Instead of boasting what the car MIGHT be once it makes it to public, let’s see what comes out when it does come out. 

 
As for the sequential trans, unless you plan on running from Glamis to Gordon’s 3rd gear is useless. Nobody driving the dunes will ever need to switch from 1st to 2nd gear. Or should I say from low range to high range. I leave my camp, dune, and return to camp all in high range. No need to shift on the fly from low to high. I use these comparisons because most people on here are buying one for duning. The selling point was the hp and the use of the key for more hp. As for open desert, shifting to 3rd gear out in the open would be cool. Still not to sure about the need for shifting from 1st to 2nd. 

 
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Big_Daddy_Jp said:
So let’s be clear on the Speed UTV car. It’s getting old hearing that this car has been dreamed up, put into cad, and built in 2 years. Quit selling this BS to people that don’t know any better! We know that the suspension was an aftermarket set up for the XX. Not only that, the car looks like a bigger version of the XX which Robby was a big part of. Basically, the Speed UTV is what Robby was trying to build the XX Into but was shut down. Tons of the Speed UTV is built from things already in motion from several years prior. All of the bad azz tig welded suspension pics are from something that was designed several years ago. So all suspension is tig welded while the rest is computer splated like the other manufactures. Yes if you were an original deposit owner you will get tons of car for your money. IF THE CAR EVER MAKES IT TO PRODUCTION! Instead of boasting what the car MIGHT be once it makes it to public, let’s see what comes out when it does come out. 
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So your saying they should of had their chit together sooner?  I believe RG's original intention was to take a Wildcat XX and make a 4 seater out of them and slap his Speed UTV suspension on them.  Then things got a little sour with the Textron relationship and he went with what we are looking at now.  

I remember running into the Speed UTV guys in Glamis at the beginning of this and they were talking about using a Z1 motor.  They were in the the Wildcat XX they built into a 4 seater.  Seems Suzuki stopped making the Z1 motor and Yamaha would not sell them motors.  So they decided to make their own motor. 

I really do believe RG and company thought they could get a car done in a year with idea of using existing stuff.  When they went to the ground up build that time line faded away quickly. 

 
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Big_Daddy_Jp said:
As for the sequential trans, unless you plan on running from Glamis to Gordon’s 3rd gear is useless. Nobody driving the dunes will ever need to switch from 1st to 2nd gear. Or should I say from low range to high range. I leave my camp, dune, and return to camp all in high range. No need to shift on the fly from low to high. I use these comparisons because most people on here are buying one for duning. The selling point was the hp and the use of the key for more hp. As for open desert, shifting to 3rd gear out in the open would be cool. Still not to sure about the need for shifting from 1st to 2nd. 
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From what I have been reading I thought the selling point was the suspension and overall strength. Looking at the shock comparisons in one of the latter videos is one example. 
BTW how much is the Speed UTV going to weigh?  Still no specs on that?  It will be interesting to see the power to weight ratios once available. Then compare the Speed to other UTVs to get an indication of how it might do in the dunes. 

 
Not sure if it was said previously, but did the get the motor CARB certified yet ?

Has production officially started yet ?   Seems like Thanksgiving and next season is in jeopardy if these things haven't started yet.  

 
FOG said:
From what I have been reading I thought the selling point was the suspension and overall strength. Looking at the shock comparisons in one of the latter videos is one example. 
BTW how much is the Speed UTV going to weigh?  Still no specs on that?  It will be interesting to see the power to weight ratios once available. Then compare the Speed to other UTVs to get an indication of how it might do in the dunes. 
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Weight wise it will be more than a Can Am and will probably come close in weight to the new Polaris Pro R.  Talking 4 seaters only.  

 
Sean@Weddle said:
King of the Hammers. Baja races with technical hill climbs. Short course racing with tight slow speed corners (WORCS, east coast cross country races, etc.)
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It’s not that I do t u dear stand where it can be used. I do understand where it could be necessary. My bet is the people that bought this car to race king of hammers would be less than 1% of the buyers. In fact I would bet that 95% or more bought this as a recreational vehicle where the sequential isn’t needed. That was my point.

 
Wasn’t it a year ago when they were talking about how they were in final testing and they were green lit to hit the production line? It seems everyone including Speed is still guessing when production will start. I do hope that everyone with deposits will see the car in their hands for next season.

 
Sand Shark said:
Weight wise it will be more than a Can Am and will probably come close in weight to the new Polaris Pro R.  Talking 4 seaters only.  
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I just looked up the Pro R 2 seat and the estimated dry weight is 2,085. Do you think the Speed 2 seat will be close?

The horsepower for both is the same at 225.  Put about 5 psi of boost on the Pro R and you’re at about 300 hp, the same as the speed key without having to run E85. 

 
FOG said:
I just looked up the Pro R 2 seat and the estimated dry weight is 2,085. Do you think the Speed 2 seat will be close?

The horsepower for both is the same at 225.  Put about 5 psi of boost on the Pro R and you’re at about 300 hp, the same as the speed key without having to run E85. 
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I would think the wet weight for both is going to be very close.   

LaRue Performance has been testing a turbo on the Pro R in Glamis.   It looks like it rips and it should because it will probably cost you $5K or more.   

 
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Big_Daddy_Jp said:
Wasn’t it a year ago when they were talking about how they were in final testing and they were green lit to hit the production line? It seems everyone including Speed is still guessing when production will start. I do hope that everyone with deposits will see the car in their hands for next season.
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Hard to keep track of all the times production was around the corner.  If they are still out testing, that tells me production is not going to start anytime soon.  

 
Sand Shark said:
So your saying they should of had their chit together sooner?  I believe RG's original intention was to take a Wildcat XX and make a 4 seater out of them and slap his Speed UTV suspension on them.  Then things got a little sour with the Textron relationship and he went with what we are looking at now.  

I remember running into the Speed UTV guys in Glamis at the beginning of this and they were talking about using a Z1 motor.  They were in the the Wildcat XX they built into a 4 seater.  Seems Suzuki stopped making the Z1 motor and Yamaha would not sell them motors.  So they decided to make their own motor. 

I really do believe RG and company thought they could get a car done in a year with idea of using existing stuff.  When they went to the ground up build that time line faded away quickly. 
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I think you make a good point here and something that is very common in nearly every supplier relationship. 

Very often suppliers fall in love with the products they building parts for, and they want to influence the next generation product. Because they are innovators they want the product to be better  then the rest.  They hardly ever do what the CFO and CEO of the other company is doing  - analysis such as margin on sales, SWOT analysis (strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and Threats) from their competitors  - they sit around and dream about what could be...  Then the light goes on and they say " If they won't let us build it, we'll just build it ourselves, we are already doing most of it anyway"  the rest is EASY... That's when all the "ideas" about what parts to use and who knows who that makes what  ... happen.  And before you know you talked yourself into being a manufacturer.

  I know because I have been there - more than once.  It really is "the school of hard knocks" and I am sure RG and team are there.  Sometimes you come out the other end OK, sometimes its "Fargo" as we call it  (you go through the wood chipper).  Either way, the "spend"  eventually becomes a concern, you can only burn so much or your own and your investors cash to where you either put out a product, or you walk away.  I know of one company that had $150M invested, announced they were shipping their product, and shut the doors the next day...  I doubt thats the case  here, but this long road still has some  steep inclines ...  LOTS of pressure come off when the first units get out the door, and lots of work starts as soon as the first reports of issues  come in.   Either way it's  a serious learning experience and the next venture benefits from it.  I believe RG and Team have the drive and EGO to at least get over the next hill and around the first bend which is shipping units. 

Those of you who are old enough to remember "Ginger"   this whole 100+ pages reminds me of the discussions we had about it when I was at Apple - I hope this turns out better - I knew people who jumped ship at Apple to work on the project - they were true believers 

Everyone was hyped about this transportation device that was going to revolutionize the transportation industry 

From Wikipedia:

Prior to its introduction, a news report about a proposal for a book about the invention, development, and financing led to speculation about the device and its importance. John Doerr speculated that it would be more important than the Internet. South Park devoted an episode to making fun of the hype before the product was released. Steve Jobs was quoted as saying that it was "as big a deal as the PC", (but later retracted that, saying that it "sucked", presumably referring to "the design" but commenting about the boutique price, asking, "You're sure your market is upscale consumers for transportation?") The device was unveiled on 3 December 2001, following months of public speculation, in Bryant Park, New York City, on the ABC News morning program Good Morning America, with the first units delivered to customers in early 2002

Well.. It was the Segway stand up self balancing scooter  and it basically sucked  -  it was cool to watch in Mall Cop though .....Company ended up being sold to the Chinese for $1  after paying off nearly $80M of Segways  debt ....

 
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NIKAL said:
Here is a message from Todd Romano. 
View attachment 28229
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IMO - Its great they are doing a lot of testing .. But the fear  from anyone that has a run a test group will tell you is the limited number of testers - Not all of us "drive" like RG ... In the Hardware and Software world  its a best practice to switch off testing with teams or peers because you get to close the problems that you sometimes "accept them as normal"  

GM does not have the same drivers go around the proven grounds on every set of changes, in fact they hire drivers from different cities to come in and test for a reason. One of my buddies in Austin gets the call  at least once a year to go test.

I would like to see RG offer some of the first 50 people that ordered a chance to come out and spend a day or two testing the cars - that would go a long way in not only the community minds but to ensure the product is ready for Joe Public and not just Joe Pro Racer...

 
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FOG said:
I just looked up the Pro R 2 seat and the estimated dry weight is 2,085. Do you think the Speed 2 seat will be close?

The horsepower for both is the same at 225.  Put about 5 psi of boost on the Pro R and you’re at about 300 hp, the same as the speed key without having to run E85. 
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From sxsblog 2 seat Pro R little under half a tank.  Said 4 seater was 2600lbs not sure fuel level on that one  5C36D322-D48F-4042-8876-868A0069E12A.jpeg

 
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