New Polaris Pro R

5 hours ago, Crusty said:

There is soo much going on in that shop these days...must be a fun crazy time no doubts..

Click to expand...
Damn, That looks like so much fun. Cleetus sure fits tight in that cab. Would not want to crash hard!

 
We did extensive testing,on a customers 4 seater with Fox live valve, have a package figured out what needs to be done to fix the flaws on the Fox shocks.. With The different settings, the car can go from a Lincoln Continental plush ride , to a Class10 that you can ralleye the car through the roughest terrain at blazing speed with ease @ the flip of a switch.. And I can tell you, it 100%, isn’t the “pistons” that are the issue, as is being advertised elsewhere. We also just received our 2 seater Pro R  at around 8pm last night.. My son Tyler will be out at Glamis this weekend for the Pro R event with the customer 4seat car, and our new 2 seater with Walker Evans shocks.. We will be putting a baseline setup on that car for this event.. 

 
Mitch Guthrie took 2nd overall at the BITD Sliver State 300 race today.  Lost to a class one car by only 12 seconds. BJ Baldwin in his trophy truck came in 3rd.   

Pretty impressive what Mitch and his Pro R did today.  
 

 
NIKAL said:
Yes this was a small field race, and one of the tightest courses raced. But racing  in class 1 and finishing like they did was very impressive. It sort of proves the point that the Pro R should not be categorized as a UTV.  
 

I think most would agree Polaris (Right or Wrong) went outside the binderies of what the formal description of what a UTV is when they chose to go over the 1000cc rule, which they got all the other Manufactures to agree to, and then lobbied to get laws written that way. 
 

I have no problem with the Pro R racing, no problem with them racing in class 1, no problem with starting races as the 3rd or 4th class to go off the line. But I don’t think they should be labeled a UTV in any way. Classifying them as an Unlimited UTV is only going to hurt the rest of the UTV classes. 
 

If it was up to me. I’d classify as a open manufacture 2000cc vehicle class. So anything built by a manufacture with 2000cc can race in this class. 
Click to expand...
Mitch was not the only UTV that signed up for the class one/trophy truck class.  The guy that races in the geiser built Can Am also raced and actually qualified 4th overall and ahead of Mitch.  I believe he was battling for a while in the race, but ultimately started having issues. 

What is impressive with what Mitch did yesterday is he had to pass BJ, Kyle and a few others to get up to 2nd physically.  

I do not have a problem with the Pro R being in the unlimited UTV class, which starts behind the turbo and n/a pro UTV class.  Reality is other manufactures will have bigger motor non-turbo cars in the next 1-4 years.  Rumor is Can Am has something. 

Reality is the only time the Pro R will make news racing in the desert is if they start pulling off top 10 overalls in Baja or the bigger BITD races, which is unlikely to happen. 

This race was perfect to give it a go with the lack of all the big names racing.  When is the last time a Class One beat all the trophy trucks, Spec Trucks and a motorcycle overalled the race?  

 
Sounds like this “inclusive” movement has infiltrated into the racing world of off roading. First we have to tolerate transgender men destroying womens sports, now this??!! Damn you Polaris!!!! Wait does this make Polaris a transgender trying to identify as a 999cc UTV? 🤔🤪

 
NIKAL said:
My point it the one primary rule to designate a UTV was ignored. Like I’ve said with Desert Racing in general, we’ve allowed Pandora’s box to be opened and when you do it can never be closed. Yes I’m sure BRP and Rotax have something coming, I’m sure eventually Honda, Kawasaki or Yamaha will bring something, they al already have engines. I’m sure Robby would be more then happy to bring something to the table.  But in the big picture how does this really support the recreation sport? Does this get the attention of the Government after a few people are seriously hurt killed? Do new regulations get created or does it get killed  like the 3 wheeler because we opened this box?  Don’t forget our government wants to kill the combustion engine, so why not just kill the category? 
 

Again I don’t care if Polaris wants to make full blown buggy’s, pick up trucks or tanks. Just properly classify them to not hurt the rest of the market or sport. Hell I’d love to see Polaris create a compact, light weight AWD Trophy Truck under a Polaris development program. It would be cool to see what they, BRP or even see Yamaha try something again like they did in the 90’s.  
 

What if Robby & Arrington redesign the Scat V4 (1/2 Chevy SB) and he makes it a 2000 or even 2400cc turbo or twin turbo producing 500+hp on 91 octane. Then he gets Albins to help design a 4 or 5 speed box to mate to his front dif. (Think like the Alumicraft AWD RPI racing class 1 car.) Would you be ok calling that a UTV? Could we start calling the Alumicraft AWD  or the Jackal a UTV? Is anything built by an established UTV manufacture going to be a UTV? 
 

Where is the limit on what is going to be a UTV? 
Click to expand...
It is no longer a UTV when the government comes in and says enough is enough. 

Why do you care how they classify it?  Polaris is making it and for now it is considered a UTV by Polaris and apparently the states that require you to register them.  You can point to ROVA stuff all you want it does not change the fact people are getting them registered as UTVs.   

Let's face it ROVA was created at a time when Yamaha was getting sued and the manufactures wanted to try to create something before the Gov. came in and really regulated stuff.  

The difference between Alumicraft, Jackal and the others are they are not a production car that you can go to a dealer and buy anywhere across the county or world.  Do you think a RPI in awd class one car or the guys racing the Jackal are going to really enter the UTV class?  The answer is no.  

I think the desert racing organization would put the stop to UTVs entering in the trophy truck/class one if they attempted to do so in every race.  I think what Mitch and the other racer did was an anomaly and done because the Silver State 300 is a race they could compete and not be a complete danger to the class they entered. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NIKAL said:
BTW the Unlimited UTV class will not be starting behind the Turbo & N/A UTV classes after another race or two. 
Click to expand...
That will not happen until it becomes the premier UTV class.  When other manufactures have models that can compete with the Pro R that is when it will happen. 

By the way nothing is stopping RG from racing in the unlimited class right now.  

 
Name of the game. Competition brings out the oneupsmanship. Hell, my “1/2 ton truck” has 2,000lbs of payload. KOH used to be stick axles and recognizable rigs. I used to race in a class where aftermarket aero wasn’t allowed, and every new car comes with diffusers and flat bottoms. Baja used to be Manxs. 

This happens everywhere, I’m not complaining. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NIKAL said:
Exactly, and we don’t need the government making those calls. So why give them a reason?

As far as why do I care how the classify them? I already told you that. I was around and riding 3 wheelers when the government ban them. If this vehicle or if a new Can Am or bigger Speed came out and caused an issue or problem where lawsuits, the States or the Government feels the need to get involved, The one bad Apple wrongly defined as a UTV kills the whole industry. But if these vehicles were correctly classified as mass produced high performance recreation vehicle or buggy. This would protect and leave the UTV alone if this experiment was to fail.

As you know an Organization named ROVHA was created by the manufactures. Laws were instituted to protect and control the industry. It’s proven to work as the first year of the RZR was 2007 and we are still here.  Prior to that with the Rhino this segment was heading the direction of the 3 wheeler, and even legislators were looking to draft bills banning the sale of UTV for recreation use. 

But that ended when the industry agreed to have industry standards. The Product Safety Commission set standards and requirements like rollover protection standards, which they used ROPS, it’s stupid but it worked. As you know they have to meet J turn standards, sensors were required on seatbelts to put the vehicle in a sort of limp mode if not buckled. Later in 2012 ? The manufactures wanted even more protection from lawsuits and went back to created even more standards like engine displacement max, seating locations, banning the modification of adding rear seats. And most importantly adding the helmet laws. Also the 1000cc standard set EPA/CARB standards for UTV’s. 
 

All it’s going to take is for a few accidents, and few ambulance chasing class action attorneys to get involved and see how these are being labeled as a UTV, and try to stop the sale of UTV’s.  Or they figure out they don’t meet the standards set into law in multiple states and with the Safety Commission. What happens if the government does start snooping around and finds out these over 1000cc vehicles are being misrepresented and wrongly classified by the manufactures, as they don’t meet the specs set?

We also have stupid people in this sport and your going to have the guy who does not want to wear a helmet in his 2000cc vehicle, and when he gets a helmet ticket or mouths off and gets arrested. He’s going to lawyer up and bring it to the courts attention that it does not meet the specs of a UTV and this could open up that door to it being found out the industry is trying to pass this as a UTV. 
 

Another thing to think about. We are still in a battle to keep our open riding areas. There are more independent groups like milk weed lovers, the tree huggers, the other environmental groups and even development groups that would love to shut down all OHV areas. The biggest support we currently have is from the UTV manufactures. The buggy builders don’t do crap to help protect our OHV areas. If we lose the UTV and those manufactures go away from producing the off road recreational vehicle, then we are sure to lose our land. If you don’t think it could happen? We already lost land in Plaster City for wind & solar in a back door deal, which has done more damage to PC then OHV have. Now Nevada is losing State Line and Jean to development. Many years ago the environmentalist lobbied and convinced the state to change the boundaries of Ocotillo Wells and made some areas only accessible buy street legal vehicles, eliminating areas in the OHV park where OHV Green sticker vehicles could go. Yet that State park was created for OHV use. Look how they have opened and closed areas in the Imperial Sand Dunes. 
 

Again I’m not against the Pro R or anything over a 1000cc. I think it cool. But just classify it for what it is. It does not change the performance or desire to have one.
 BTW does anyone remember when Robby first announced the Speed UTV, and he did not have engine figured out. But he was looking at a 1300cc platform and some were excited thinking no helmets. Some were saying it’s not going to be a UTV, and I know several racers that had their panties in a wad saying he can’t race it, it’s not legal and not fair! It’s not a UTV and Robby better not try to get the rules changed. These guys were freaking out over a concept vehicle  and even contacted BITD and Score. Now two of those racers are ok with the 2000cc car. Hmmm? I guess when your sponsored and it favors you it’s ok! 
Click to expand...
I too was around in the 3 wheeler days.   If gov. wanted to kill off the UTV it would of already been done when Yamaha was getting sued left and right.  

Polaris still followed all the safety guidelines outlined by ROHVA.  They just put in a bigger engine.   I look at the sport utv market heading in the direction of the watercraft as far as engines and hp.   They dazzle you with numbers and then put in speed limiters to keep people somewhat in check. 

Racers are a funny bunch.  They are against something until it benefits their race. program.  

The size of a motor is not what is going to draw the attention of environmentalist, it is the behavior of the users.  Land use is a never ending battle and we are fortunate to have groups that help fight against the land closures.  Amazing how they can take land away due to "alleged abuse" and then slap developments or other things that permanently change the landscape.   

Speaking of green sticker - the dirt bike industry let the red sticker program go away without much of fight for the 2022 models.  Now if you do not have a green sticker complaint dirt bike you can not even register the bike.  They are considered track bikes only.   

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sand Shark said:
I too was around in the 3 wheeler days.   If gov. wanted to kill off the UTV it would of already been done when Yamaha was getting sued left and right.  

Polaris still followed all the safety guidelines outlined by ROHVA.  They just put in a bigger engine.   I look at the sport utv market heading in the direction of the watercraft as far as engines and hp.   They dazzle you with numbers and then put in speed limiters to keep people somewhat in check. 

Racers are a funny bunch.  They are against something until it benefits their race. program.  

The size of a motor is not what is going to draw the attention of environmentalist, it is the behavior of the users.  Land use is a never ending battle and we are fortunate to have groups that help fight against the land closures.  Amazing how they can take land away due to "alleged abuse" and then slap developments or other things that permanently change the landscape.   

Speaking of green sticker - the dirt bike industry let the red sticker program go away without much of fight for the 2022 models.  Now if you do not have a green sticker complaint dirt bike you can not even register the bike.  They are considered track bikes only.   
Click to expand...
Prior to 2022 models are now "Green" sticker vehicles.  Can't get registration on any red sticker vehicles from out of state or that weren't previously registered.

 
NIKAL said:
The reason the Gov did not kill the UTV for recreation use is the fact the manufactures created ROVHA which worked the Product Safety Commission, who was looking into the 400 lawsuits against Yamaha. They created regulations the industry needed to follow. Without that the UTV would be dead. Yamaha paid out tens of millions of dollars. 

I don’t know what legislation there is for watercraft, but clearly engine displacement was not the primary definition of what a watercraft is and why they have been able to increase the size. 

Remember the legislation defined what a UTV is, and the primary spec is the engine displacement. All other specs & laws are based on the primary engine rule. Without the displacement rule, seat location, and helmet requirement goes away. Even things like roll cage requirements, speed limiters, j turns all change when you change or font follow the primary spec of the definition. 
 

This was from Todd Romano awhile back. He said the main reason they did not build a greater then 1000cc engine, which would have been easy to do. Was it was going to change how the vehicle was identified. This also included emissions. UTV’s have standard they need to meet and that’s way different then a greater then 1000cc or street registered vehicle. He was not sure they would be able get it registered. Plus he said safety standards would possibly different as it would have be classified under a different mass produced vehicle, other then a UTV. Speed was going into the UTV market and had to follow the standards set to be in that category.
Click to expand...
Todd and RG do not have the pull Polaris has with the government.  Nor could they afford to stray from what is for sure deemed a UTV.  Polaris can afford to take chances.  

Again I do not think Polaris going to a bigger engine takes away from the fact it is a UTV.  We can go in circles on this all day long.  As of now no government agency has said the Pro R is not a UTV.

 
Rockwood said:
Prior to 2022 models are now "Green" sticker vehicles.  Can't get registration on any red sticker vehicles from out of state or that weren't previously registered.
Click to expand...
My kids new dirt bike could not be registered and no sticker.  Fortunately he only uses it at the track so not a huge deal. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top