Car In the Shop 2, no, 3 Weeks, no 4 weeks, no 7 weeks For Warranty Repair - GOT HER BACK, Ford Customer Service is useless

Lord of the Dunes said:
Based on your experience of when the noise occurs, what do you think is causing it? A shock mount? A brace, or bushing?

I'm just thinking, the Ford engineer may or may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, or he may just be suffering from too much "in the box" thinking - ie. the solution is a factory part, but what if the upper shock mount threaded portion is just a touch too long and even though it's torqued to spec., it's still allowing enough slop in the bushings to make a clunking noise as it loads/unloads. That's just a "what if" - I have no idea what the shock mount looks like, but if there's a little slop somewhere and the addition of a couple of washers not in the drawings can take out the slop and clunk - problem solved by you, probably quite a bit sharper at problem solving than he is.

For yrs my GT was having alternator overheating problems until I was told by a retail parts guy that the factory connector was too short, causing all of the overheating and fires. Once he gave me the longer connector, the problem was solved permanently. But the factory engineers are the ones who selected a connector that was 1/4" too short and barely made contact.

If it were me, I'd get whatever written/monetary concessions I could get out of them, then T/S and fix it myself. Hell, if it turns out to be 2 washers fixes it, market it as the "rear suspension repair kit" and sell it on Ebay for $25 a pop!

:thumb:
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You're spot on.

DSC_0745-M.jpg


OEM rear mount.  Note the height of the stock isolator compared to the depth of its spot on the mount.  The rubber has some protrusions on either side, but there's a lot of void space in there.  I'll see if I can play with washers to take up some slack yet still maintain articulation (the control arm's arc doesn't require much in the way of articulation, so this should be easy).  The void space plus that bearing are probably what I'm hearing.

If I can't fix it, I'll just get an aftermarket mount and be done with it.  Hell, I might anyway since the slop in the stock mount causes an annoying undamped bounce while the shock overpowers the slop in the mount, so most swap them out anyway.  What I get for not joining the forum on the car I like like I usually do.

Orange_R said:
is there a tower support you can add to help with the deflection or whatever is moving? We use to do that in the Accord sedan's to help stiffen the roll on the car. Something like this? https://www.bmrsuspension.com/?page=products&vehicleid=24&maincatid=117&catid=499
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See above :biggrin:

 
1 day shy of 7 weeks later, I got her back.  First, obligatory picture:

Mustang.jpeg

Good to have her back.  After 6 weeks in a V6 Edge (yes, 6, since no loaner for a week), I forgot how awesome this car is.  

Anyway, diagnosis:

Clunk to my ear appears resolved.  Have not put the family in it (when the clunk was especially heinous), but seems good for now. The repair order is 3 pages of parts, notes, labor, etc.  Replaced subframe bushings, shocks, mounts, bolts, this/that/other on the way here.  Looks like 33 hours total billed.  

Now for the fun with Ford.  Customer care just called today and first offered an extended service plan (wowzer! What a deal!), then offered one month payment, and now 2 months' payment before she had no more authority.  Nice, but there were other costs incurred during this time (registration, wear and tear from 60 miles of test driving that went from 21mpg average to 11mpg, empty gas tank when I got it back, insurance, etc).  Holding out for more, which I think I'll get given how easily this car qualifies for Lemon replacement.  

Stay tuned.  This has definitely soured my opinion of the manufacturer.  Before this, they got the benefit of the doubt on a coin toss decision (I'm definitely not a brand loyalist, but certain brands hold more sway for me all else equal).  Today... Meh.

 
So, I'm still dealing with the aftermath of this.  

To date: Ford engineers were VERY invasive in trying to find this problem.  First, the problem itself: since getting it back, I have not heard a single clunk from the rear suspension.  My assumption is Penske Ford was putting the car in a situation that would make the noise no matter what was on the car since it was likely smashing the bumpstops.  When I brought the car in, I would get constant clunks just driving through a parking lot.  Now, nothing.  Hell, yesterday I had 800lbs of myself and coworkers in the vehicle along with a hundred pounds in the trunk driving around Rosecrans area, nothing at all.  So likely 6 weeks of investigation was spent chasing a ghost.

On to the investigation.  During this time, Ford removed seam sealer on spot welds, crimped interior sheetmetal without re-painting, dented the sheetmetal in the door jamb, and a number of other things. 

Penske Ford has been very communicative during this, I honestly have no ill will towards them.

Ford corporate, on the other hand.  Ugh.  I've requested repairs for these items at a bodyshop I trust.  To date, Ford is offering me 2 months of payments for the 7 weeks it was in the shop (refuses to pay insurance or registration), and HALF  of the repair costs.  Yes.  Half.  Odd that I need to pay half of these damages, since I don't remember doing any of this.

So, I'm assuming that since I haven't received a call from Ford for 2 weeks, they're unwilling to resolve this.  Anyone know any other course of action?  Hire a good Lemon attorney?  Only bummer is if I request a replacement, it'll be a 2021 chip shortage model that's been sitting in the parking lot for 6 months, then finished with rusty workers.  Requesting my money back means I have to pay Covid tax on an alternative.  This sucks.

 
Wow! They were actually a lot more generous than Ford or GM have ever been to me! I hope they will see the light and do the right thing for you.

 
Rockwood said:
So, I'm still dealing with the aftermath of this.  

To date: Ford engineers were VERY invasive in trying to find this problem.  First, the problem itself: since getting it back, I have not heard a single clunk from the rear suspension.  My assumption is Penske Ford was putting the car in a situation that would make the noise no matter what was on the car since it was likely smashing the bumpstops.  When I brought the car in, I would get constant clunks just driving through a parking lot.  Now, nothing.  Hell, yesterday I had 800lbs of myself and coworkers in the vehicle along with a hundred pounds in the trunk driving around Rosecrans area, nothing at all.  So likely 6 weeks of investigation was spent chasing a ghost.

On to the investigation.  During this time, Ford removed seam sealer on spot welds, crimped interior sheetmetal without re-painting, dented the sheetmetal in the door jamb, and a number of other things. 

Penske Ford has been very communicative during this, I honestly have no ill will towards them.

Ford corporate, on the other hand.  Ugh.  I've requested repairs for these items at a bodyshop I trust.  To date, Ford is offering me 2 months of payments for the 7 weeks it was in the shop (refuses to pay insurance or registration), and HALF  of the repair costs.  Yes.  Half.  Odd that I need to pay half of these damages, since I don't remember doing any of this.

So, I'm assuming that since I haven't received a call from Ford for 2 weeks, they're unwilling to resolve this.  Anyone know any other course of action?  Hire a good Lemon attorney?  Only bummer is if I request a replacement, it'll be a 2021 chip shortage model that's been sitting in the parking lot for 6 months, then finished with rusty workers.  Requesting my money back means I have to pay Covid tax on an alternative.  This sucks.
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Unfortunately, I don't know if Lemon is an option here.  By your own admission, the problem is fixed.  I also don't think it met the threshold for days in the shop, but it's been over a decade since I Lemon'ed my IS250.  I don't even recall the lawyer I used, but it was just one of the big name firms a Google search will turn up.  A buddy had used them for his '05 GTO.  You want to go with one of these firms, because they know all the magic words, plus the manufacturers know them and generally know it's easier to just settle. 

That said, use COVID-pricing to your advantage: sell the thing for more than you bought it for.  You have other vehicles, and can 'afford' to wait to replace it 'til pricing comes back to reality and the cars available aren't the chip-shortage builds like you mentioned.  I think a Cayman 4.0 GTS would do nicely...

-TJ

 
tjZ06 said:
Unfortunately, I don't know if Lemon is an option here.  By your own admission, the problem is fixed.  I also don't think it met the threshold for days in the shop, but it's been over a decade since I Lemon'ed my IS250.  I don't even recall the lawyer I used, but it was just one of the big name firms a Google search will turn up.  A buddy had used them for his '05 GTO.  You want to go with one of these firms, because they know all the magic words, plus the manufacturers know them and generally know it's easier to just settle. 

That said, use COVID-pricing to your advantage: sell the thing for more than you bought it for.  You have other vehicles, and can 'afford' to wait to replace it 'til pricing comes back to reality and the cars available aren't the chip-shortage builds like you mentioned.  I think a Cayman 4.0 GTS would do nicely...

-TJ
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Threshold is 30 days in first year of ownership.  This definitely exceeded that.

https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonlaw_qa.pdf

WHAT IS A “REASONABLE” NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS? A: There is no set number. However, California’s Lemon Law Presumption contains these guidelines for determining when a “reasonable” number of repair attempts have been made:

• The manufacturer or dealer hasn’t fixed the same problem after four or more attempts.

• Your vehicle’s problems could cause death or serious bodily injury if it is driven, and the manufacturer or dealer has made at least two unsuccessful repair attempts.

• The vehicle has been in the shop for more than 30 days (not necessarily in a row) for repair of any problems covered by its warranty. This is called the Lemon Law Presumption.

And must have back seats.  911? :biggrin:

 
Rockwood said:
Threshold is 30 days in first year of ownership.  This definitely exceeded that.

https://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/lemonlaw_qa.pdf

WHAT IS A “REASONABLE” NUMBER OF REPAIR ATTEMPTS? A: There is no set number. However, California’s Lemon Law Presumption contains these guidelines for determining when a “reasonable” number of repair attempts have been made:

• The manufacturer or dealer hasn’t fixed the same problem after four or more attempts.

• Your vehicle’s problems could cause death or serious bodily injury if it is driven, and the manufacturer or dealer has made at least two unsuccessful repair attempts.

• The vehicle has been in the shop for more than 30 days (not necessarily in a row) for repair of any problems covered by its warranty. This is called the Lemon Law Presumption.

And must have back seats.  911? :biggrin:
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I'd at least consult one of the big firms, in that case.  Almost all of them do zero up-front fees, and you only pay out of what they collect if they win.  So besides a little time gathering documentation for them, no cost to you if it fails.  IIRC with my IS250 it was easier, because the issue fell into that "could cause death or serious bodily injury..." thing.  It was BS, but the issue was the now super-common, well-known issue of carbon build-up on the intake valves ('06 IS250, first of Toyota's DI engines).  It would cause rough idle and stumbling, which could be followed by a surge as the IAC opens quickly trying to keep it from stalling.  Lawyers spun that as surging could cause it to "leap into traffic" or some BS.  Whatever, worked for me. 

-TJ

 
tjZ06 said:
I'd at least consult one of the big firms, in that case.  Almost all of them do zero up-front fees, and you only pay out of what they collect if they win.  So besides a little time gathering documentation for them, no cost to you if it fails.  IIRC with my IS250 it was easier, because the issue fell into that "could cause death or serious bodily injury..." thing.  It was BS, but the issue was the now super-common, well-known issue of carbon build-up on the intake valves ('06 IS250, first of Toyota's DI engines).  It would cause rough idle and stumbling, which could be followed by a surge as the IAC opens quickly trying to keep it from stalling.  Lawyers spun that as surging could cause it to "leap into traffic" or some BS.  Whatever, worked for me. 

-TJ
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Word. 

That being said, Ford has stated it still makes noise, and rattling rear suspension would definitely fall under the "could cause death" as well :biggrin:

Either way, patience grows thin.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Wow! They were actually a lot more generous than Ford or GM have ever been to me! I hope they will see the light and do the right thing for you.
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I've been as patient and understanding as can be.  I've gotten good at not raising my voice, yet continually prodding people into action, LOL. :biggrin:

 
And, Ford "upper management" decided to pull the credit for repairs after their engineer did a ringer on my car.  No way I could sell this without anyone worth their salt noticing it, and trying to explain that it wasn't in an accident but this was Ford's "repair" would go over like a lead balloon.  

So, arbitration I go.  

 
So I haven't read the entire post but did read all your updates. Hire a lemon lawyer and let them work on it. I had to do this twice with ford. The first was on a focus we bought as an estimators car. Had trans overheating issues and clutch issues (dual clutch automatic). They ended up giving me $11K, a new transmission and extending the warranty on the transmission for 5yr/60K miles. The second was my 2020 Raptor, had both turbos swapped out and the navigation changed twice. On the Raptor they bought it back for what I paid. I got to drive it for a year and put over 40K miles on it. Without a good attorney you aren't going to get chit from them. 

 
Pennywise said:
So I haven't read the entire post but did read all your updates. Hire a lemon lawyer and let them work on it. I had to do this twice with ford. The first was on a focus we bought as an estimators car. Had trans overheating issues and clutch issues (dual clutch automatic). They ended up giving me $11K, a new transmission and extending the warranty on the transmission for 5yr/60K miles. The second was my 2020 Raptor, had both turbos swapped out and the navigation changed twice. On the Raptor they bought it back for what I paid. I got to drive it for a year and put over 40K miles on it. Without a good attorney you aren't going to get chit from them. 
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Yep.  What I found as well.  

Have a referral? :biggrin:

 
I would tell Penske and Ford you want to initiate a buy back and let them know you will be obtaining an attorney.   See how far you can push it without the intervention of an attorney. If they continue to push back then seek out a lemon law attorney.

My wife has gotten Ford to buy back 2 vehicles over the years.  We have a good relationship with the service manager at our dealer and he helped with the process.  When she had an Edge the mysnyc system never worked properly.  She got them to pay 9 months on the lease. 

There is a really good lemon law attorney in Glendale.  I believe his name is Norman Taylor.        

 
Sand Shark said:
I would tell Penske and Ford you want to initiate a buy back and let them know you will be obtaining an attorney.   See how far you can push it without the intervention of an attorney. If they continue to push back then seek out a lemon law attorney.

My wife has gotten Ford to buy back 2 vehicles over the years.  We have a good relationship with the service manager at our dealer and he helped with the process.  When she had an Edge the mysnyc system never worked properly.  She got them to pay 9 months on the lease. 

There is a really good lemon law attorney in Glendale.  I believe his name is Norman Taylor.        
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I've gotten to that point now, and told the customer service rep that I would be obtaining an attorney.  They were apologetic, but there's nothing they can do.

Penske offered to help, but said they wouldn't be able to get more than a 1 month payment credit based on prior results.  They also said they would repair the damage, but based on the work their body shop has done so far, I am certain I won't be happy with the repair.  They understood and really the only way to get compensation for the permanent damage done during this process is through Ford.  Penske can only attempt to fix, but we're talking tearing the entire corner of the car apart to accomplish.  NFW I'm letting them do that.

 
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