Tesla

rampster said:
The math is whacked and I don't understand why people want to hate electric cars so much.    Sure we're all used to internal combustion engines and especially on this board we are very attached to them but electric cars have their place, why hate?    Who is spreading these lies?  Is it because the leftist regime supports them?   

Is it GM, Ford and others trying to protect their existing empires?   

To me it just makes sense that we should all support what makes sense.
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Once the E cars are mandated heavily (2026 MY will be 35% EV/PHEV), plan for me is to buy a 1st gen ghetto EV to commute/run errands in.  80-100 mile range?  Fine by me, I'm just trying to get to work and back...  $400/ea Michelins for the Mustang (rears don't seem to last for some reason, odd) make it almost worth it by themselves.

Starting to get dirt cheap as it is:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=660733483&allListingType=all-cars&fuelTypeGroup=ELE&city=San Diego&state=CA&zip=92101&location=&searchRadius=50&maxPrice=10000&dma=&isNewSearch=false&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Felectric%2Fsan-diego-ca-92101%3FsearchRadius%3D50%26maxPrice%3D10000&clickType=listing

I will smash that thing into whatever spot is closest, and generally give zero facks about it.

 
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Bansh88 said:
Being forced to like something will make you hate it. 
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I agree with this bish!

The push by Newscum and CA to impose EV regulations on me, as a consumer, pissed me TFO!  I have no desire to drive, less own, an EV.  I will hold out until TN forces me to get into one but I don't see that happening any time in the next 15+ years.

 
TheLatinLover said:
I agree with this bish!

The push by Newscum and CA to impose EV regulations on me, as a consumer, pissed me TFO!  I have no desire to drive, less own, an EV.  I will hold out until TN forces me to get into one but I don't see that happening any time in the next 15+ years.
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By then, you'll probably be jealous anyway.  The battery packs also make the floor higher, which makes you sit taller in the car... :biggrin:

 
Some of you are paying great rates for electricity. Here in San Diego, it's 66.7c per kWh during peak hours 4-9 pm and 41.9c during off peak. If one could fully charge 100kw in peak hrs, it would cost $66.70. if one charged it during off peak, it would cost $41.90. 

That would give a range of maybe 400 mi if you own the top range model S. For comparison, my Camry hybrid goes 600 mi between fill ups and the most I've ever paid was $65 for just under 12 gal. Most of the fill ups were much less than that, back before recent price hikes.

I do like the concept of EVs, but the range, vehicle cost, charging cost and time to charge don't make sense for me, yet.

I can't foresee a time when I would be on a cross country trip and be willing to sit at a charging station for 3 hrs or overnight. When I tow my trailer to St Anthony's, I drive 1100 mi in 2 days, or 550 mi per day, towing. When I drive a car, I average 600 mi per day. That would be 2 recharges on a 300 mi range EV per day. Counting recharge time, there's no way to drive that far per day, plus I can refill a gas tank virtually anywhere in a few minutes.

Maybe when the prices for EVs and electricity drop. I hear China is poised to flood the US market with over 100 models of cheap EVs once some sort of ban expires.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Some of you are paying great rates for electricity. Here in San Diego, it's 66.7c per kWh during peak hours 4-9 pm and 41.9c during off peak. If one could fully charge 100kw in peak hrs, it would cost $66.70. if one charged it during off peak, it would cost $41.90. 

That would give a range of maybe 400 mi if you own the top range model S. For comparison, my Camry hybrid goes 600 mi between fill ups and the most I've ever paid was $65 for just under 12 gal. Most of the fill ups were much less than that, back before recent price hikes.

I do like the concept of EVs, but the range, vehicle cost, charging cost and time to charge don't make sense for me, yet.

I can't foresee a time when I would be on a cross country trip and be willing to sit at a charging station for 3 hrs or overnight. When I tow my trailer to St Anthony's, I drive 1100 mi in 2 days, or 550 mi per day, towing. When I drive a car, I average 600 mi per day. That would be 2 recharges on a 300 mi range EV per day. Counting recharge time, there's no way to drive that far per day, plus I can refill a gas tank virtually anywhere in a few minutes.

Maybe when the prices for EVs and electricity drop. I hear China is poised to flood the US market with over 100 models of cheap EVs once some sort of ban expires.
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Per SDGE's site, TOU rates are as follows:

image.png

https://www.sdge.com/residential/pricing-plans/about-our-pricing-plans/electric-vehicle-plans

Every EV can be programmed to charge only during certain hours. The only time you'd fall into the 39.1 cent range is for the last or first 4 hours of a charge if fully charging a completely depleted battery on a Tesla, which is rare.  Smaller battery vehicles charge in less than 7 hours from completely depleted, and a long-ish 40-50 mile daily use is about 2 hours to top back up.

Generally speaking, 400 miles of standard daily use would be about $4 and some change to accomplish.  Fully depleted would be about 50/50 since the charge rate falls off the higher the charge and depends on when you're starting vs finishing.  Even then, unless you needed to drive the full charge tomorrow, you're better off just letting it top up over a couple of days.

Where'd you get those rates?  They don't match up with SDGE's site for even standard rates:

image.png

Hell, at the rates you're quoting, you're almost better off charging at a retail station. :biggrin:

 
BTW, friend of mine hit the goldmine: EV TOU1 on solar.  Back then, they would grant TOU plans to people with solar panels...  Yep.  During the day, you're rolling backwards at peak rate, and forwards at night at off-peak rate, effectively making your solar array 2-6x larger from a $ standpoint.  He has 2 EVs, all electric house (cooking, heating, water) and an air conditioned garage.  Thermostats set to 72*F year-round, current credit is negative $7,000 and still climbing.  

:bird: SDGE

 
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Rockwood said:
BTW, friend of mine hit the goldmine: EV TOU1 on solar.  Back then, they would grant TOU plans to people with solar panels...  Yep.  During the day, you're rolling backwards at peak rate, and forwards at night at off-peak rate, effectively making your solar array 2-6x larger from a $ standpoint.  He has 2 EVs, all electric house (cooking, heating, water) and an air conditioned garage.  Thermostats set to 72*F year-round, current credit is negative $7,000 and still climbing.  

:bird: SDGE
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I have solar as well and on TOU rates. But...what did it cost to install the solar? answer=ALOT!

nobody is factoring in battery replacement $$ on the EVs either. There should be a battery replacement factor based on limited charge cycles.

On the battery usage...unless they're Li with automatic shut-off at pre-programmed levels, deep discharges kill battery life in general. Time will tell.

There's a reason that the power company runs their power generating station motors on natural gas (the ones that make power for night use). Yes I know wind, water, and sun also make power but...water shortages, night, and wind irregularity have impacts.

 
xtream1 said:
I have solar as well and on TOU rates. But...what did it cost to install the solar? answer=ALOT!

nobody is factoring in battery replacement $$ on the EVs either. There should be a battery replacement factor based on limited charge cycles.

On the battery usage...unless they're Li with automatic shut-off at pre-programmed levels, deep discharges kill battery life in general. Time will tell.

There's a reason that the power company runs their power generating station motors on natural gas (the ones that make power for night use). Yes I know wind, water, and sun also make power but...water shortages, night, and wind irregularity have impacts.
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Everyone with an array installed after 2017 sometime has solar on TOU now.  It sucks.  The return rates during the day when your panels are producing are low, and the use rates in the afternoon/evening when your solar panels have lost production is super high.

EV TOU with solar, however, was epic.  The return rate during the day when your panels are producing the most electricity are 2-6x the rates when you're actually using electricity (evening/night).

 
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There is some great data and information on this thread - when it's accurate.  As is typical in todays world - tons of bad info too.  Interesting all the hate for EV's out there - in many cases its comical and based on inaccurate info or bad concepts.  The start of this thread's assumptions are faulty and on another thread comparing EV for towing - wrong tool for the job.  I don't think a Corvette would tow well but that's not a problem with the car - you are the problem if you purchase a Corvette and aren't happy with its towing capabilities. 

There are tons of applications and situations that EV's are fantastic for.  I don't own an EV and generally don't see a time in the near future I will.  But I tow all the time, I drive long distances, I won't wait for a charge - my time is more important than cost.  I can't afford multiple cars for different functions - so I've stuck with a big diesel truck. 

Now the government and Newscum ramming electric vehicles down my throat - that gets me upset!  But I'm mad that them, not hating on the EV or the advantages this technology will bring.  I think they have a place in many peoples commuting situation and hopefully they all adopt.  Just don't force everyone to adopt.    

 
BTW, straight battery module replacement is $5-7k with labor.  There are 4-5 modules per Tesla.  If you somehow melted down ALL of your batteries, yes, $30k, but that's highly unlikely.  There are also battery refurbishment shops popping up all over that recondition the battery by replacing under-spec cells only for a lot less.  That's for the high-zoot Teslas, battery packs on peasant models are considerably cheaper.  

Either way, on said high-zoot Teslas, 80% of total capacity at 150k miles is what people seem to be getting.  

 
rampster said:
The math is whacked and I don't understand why people want to hate electric cars so much.    Sure we're all used to internal combustion engines and especially on this board we are very attached to them but electric cars have their place, why hate?    Who is spreading these lies?  Is it because the leftist regime supports them?   

Is it GM, Ford and others trying to protect their existing empires?   

To me it just makes sense that we should all support what makes sense.
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For me, the EV push is just a small part of the entire green scam.

If you take a holistic view of this entire initiative to go green, it would blow your mind to see how much our government is spending to force change for something that will make insignificant change on the climate. None of the current green technologies, the ones the leftist elites are pushing, can stand on their own without heavy financial support from the government. And the current grid capacity is nowhere close to being capable to support the sharp increase in loads created by these mandates. (cart before the horse)

For example, the utility I worked for was given mandates for renewable generation several years ago. We happened to have a hydro portfolio that would have met that requirement, but our legislature decided that hydro was not eligible to be considered as "renewable"! They wanted wind and solar, so hydro was no longer considered "green". (our hydro assets were all 50 to 80 yrs old at the time, nothing new)

Another example, the expected increase in load on the grid if we go all EV is at a minimum a 30% increase. And that is just the increase for EV's and does not include normal increased load from normal growth. Several years ago the company I worked for proposed to build a transmission line that would be about 120 miles long to support the current increase in load demand. The cost estimate of that project increased more than 3 fold as the initial studies were being conducted, most of which was to address environmental concerns. (the new proposed line would have replaced a smaller existing line that we already owned the right of way for). They abandoned the project due to cost and to avoid the inevitable constant litigation from environmentalist. Good luck getting all that green power from the generation sites to the end user. (remember, those that support green power want it, but just not in their neighborhood)

The cost are already astronomical in the form of grants and subsidies for going green and will only increase as we chase this Utopian fantasy. And I guaranty that there are a few that will get fantastically rich and powerful off this scam.

 
Rockwood said:
Per SDGE's site, TOU rates are as follows:

View attachment 47190

https://www.sdge.com/residential/pricing-plans/about-our-pricing-plans/electric-vehicle-plans

Every EV can be programmed to charge only during certain hours. The only time you'd fall into the 39.1 cent range is for the last or first 4 hours of a charge if fully charging a completely depleted battery on a Tesla, which is rare.  Smaller battery vehicles charge in less than 7 hours from completely depleted, and a long-ish 40-50 mile daily use is about 2 hours to top back up.

Generally speaking, 400 miles of standard daily use would be about $4 and some change to accomplish.  Fully depleted would be about 50/50 since the charge rate falls off the higher the charge and depends on when you're starting vs finishing.  Even then, unless you needed to drive the full charge tomorrow, you're better off just letting it top up over a couple of days.

Where'd you get those rates?  They don't match up with SDGE's site for even standard rates:

View attachment 47191

Hell, at the rates you're quoting, you're almost better off charging at a retail station. :biggrin:
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Screenshot_20221018-143328.png

This is the screen shot of my Google search results. I can't swear it's correct, but my bill feels like it is.

The rest of my post about not spending over $100k for a car with 400 mi or less range is still also a valid point. My hybrid is still a better value at $23k new and 600 mi between 5 - 10 min. fill ups.

 
BW Willy said:
There is some great data and information on this thread - when it's accurate.  As is typical in todays world - tons of bad info too.  Interesting all the hate for EV's out there - in many cases its comical and based on inaccurate info or bad concepts.  The start of this thread's assumptions are faulty and on another thread comparing EV for towing - wrong tool for the job.  I don't think a Corvette would tow well but that's not a problem with the car - you are the problem if you purchase a Corvette and aren't happy with its towing capabilities. 

There are tons of applications and situations that EV's are fantastic for.  I don't own an EV and generally don't see a time in the near future I will.  But I tow all the time, I drive long distances, I won't wait for a charge - my time is more important than cost.  I can't afford multiple cars for different functions - so I've stuck with a big diesel truck. 

Now the government and Newscum ramming electric vehicles down my throat - that gets me upset!  But I'm mad that them, not hating on the EV or the advantages this technology will bring.  I think they have a place in many peoples commuting situation and hopefully they all adopt.  Just don't force everyone to adopt.    
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Yes, I agree, an EV is the wrong tool for towing, yet Ford and Chevy (and soon Tesla) are selling trucks and the only reason I bought a truck was to tow with it. I never used it for anything else, so those EV trucks make no sense to me.

The other issue with EVs is where the power comes from. If someone has a large home solar array and correspondingly large battery bank to charge their EV only from solar, more power to them. Most people aren't doing that and the amount of power they consume from non renewable sources isn't helping.

79% of US energy comes from fossil fuels, so thinking EVs are a green way to get around is false.

More importantly, our government should have been developing LFTR reactors, more hydro and tidal power plants, but now they're pushing for more offshore wind turbines. Why? Because the lobbyists told them to because their bosses will make more profits from less efficient, more expensive sources.

Same thing happened with the corn subsidies for making E85 from ethanol. Brazil makes 8x more ethanol from sugar cane, but the powerful corn lobbyists prevailed.

Our government doesn't do what's in our nation's best interest, they do what the powerful lobbyists tell them to do. The vaccine scam is just another in a long list of rich people and politicians getting richer off of fleecing the public.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Yes, I agree, an EV is the wrong tool for towing, yet Ford and Chevy (and soon Tesla) are selling trucks and the only reason I bought a truck was to tow with it. I never used it for anything else, so those EV trucks make no sense to me.

The other issue with EVs is where the power comes from. If someone has a large home solar array and correspondingly large battery bank to charge their EV only from solar, more power to them. Most people aren't doing that and the amount of power they consume from non renewable sources isn't helping.

79% of US energy comes from fossil fuels, so thinking EVs are a green way to get around is false.

More importantly, our government should have been developing LFTR reactors, more hydro and tidal power plants, but now they're pushing for more offshore wind turbines. Why? Because the lobbyists told them to because their bosses will make more profits from less efficient, more expensive sources.

Same thing happened with the corn subsidies for making E85 from ethanol. Brazil makes 8x more ethanol from sugar cane, but the powerful corn lobbyists prevailed.

Our government doesn't do what's in our nation's best interest, they do what the powerful lobbyists tell them to do. The vaccine scam is just another in a long list of rich people and politicians getting richer off of fleecing the public.
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10-4 - don't disagree with much of this!  I will say, not all trucks are really trucks - would you tow with a Honda Ridgeline? 

Yes, our government doesn't do what's in our best interest or right - nuclear is the current best solution in my mind but they want nothing to do with it.  hydro and tidal too!

All that said, hate on the government and our corrupt officials for their policies - not on EV cars and trucks.  If a guy wants to compliment his manbun with an EV truck - good for him.  And if he's got a manbun, he shouldn't be towing anyway.    

 
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