Speed UTV

Sand Shark said:
Racing with a car once claimed to be race ready. They have very poor luck racing these cars.
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The car was never advertised as race ready. The chassis was inspected early on by Score tech, and the upper cage was said it could be race legal with some modifications. No other brand cage could be made race legal. As far as the OEM suspension & geometry is way more race capable than the other brands.

It’s very clear clutching is the biggest design issue they have. We all seem to know where all the design flaws are in the clutching. After that I’d say axles need to get sorted out. I think it’s material used in the cv’s and they need to figure out how to keep the grease in the cv not in the boot. Then there seems to be a few small motor issues that need to be improved on. I think again most of those are quality of parts from the suppliers.
 
NIKAL said:
The car was never advertised as race ready. The chassis was inspected early on by Score tech, and the upper cage was said it could be race legal with some modifications. No other brand cage could be made race legal. As far as the OEM suspension & geometry is way more race capable than the other brands.

It’s very clear clutching is the biggest design issue they have. We all seem to know where all the design flaws are in the clutching. After that I’d say axles need to get sorted out. I think it’s material used in the cv’s and they need to figure out how to keep the grease in the cv not in the boot. Then there seems to be a few small motor issues that need to be improved on. I think again most of those are quality of parts from the suppliers.
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I don't think Factory Polaris agrees with you there.
 
NIKAL said:
The car was never advertised as race ready. The chassis was inspected early on by Score tech, and the upper cage was said it could be race legal with some modifications. No other brand cage could be made race legal. As far as the OEM suspension & geometry is way more race capable than the other brands.

It’s very clear clutching is the biggest design issue they have. We all seem to know where all the design flaws are in the clutching. After that I’d say axles need to get sorted out. I think it’s material used in the cv’s and they need to figure out how to keep the grease in the cv not in the boot. Then there seems to be a few small motor issues that need to be improved on. I think again most of those are quality of parts from the suppliers.
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The suspension geometry is an optimized 50 year old design. Does it do great? Absolutely. Is it better than the Maverick R or Pro R? Only if going straight over whoops is your goal. Putting power down, braking, cornering, unsprung mass, that’s what the newer designs get you, albeit with some drawbacks.

No way I’d call it “way more race capable” unless you’re talking about desert racing with the OEM shock tune. Even then, the Pro R is pretty damned dialed.

And let’s not forget the actual race results.
 
Rockwood said:
The suspension geometry is an optimized 50 year old design. Does it do great? Absolutely. Is it better than the Maverick R or Pro R? Only if going straight over whoops is your goal. Putting power down, braking, cornering, unsprung mass, that’s what the newer designs get you, albeit with some drawbacks.

No way I’d call it “way more race capable” unless you’re talking about desert racing with the OEM shock tune. Even then, the Pro R is pretty damned dialed.

And let’s not forget the actual race results.
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Does Speed actually have any "race results"?

Other than DNF I mean...

😁
 
NIKAL said:
The car was never advertised as race ready. The chassis was inspected early on by Score tech, and the upper cage was said it could be race legal with some modifications. No other brand cage could be made race legal. As far as the OEM suspension & geometry is way more race capable than the other brands.

It’s very clear clutching is the biggest design issue they have. We all seem to know where all the design flaws are in the clutching. After that I’d say axles need to get sorted out. I think it’s material used in the cv’s and they need to figure out how to keep the grease in the cv not in the boot. Then there seems to be a few small motor issues that need to be improved on. I think again most of those are quality of parts from the suppliers.
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Did he not say in one of the videos add the door bars and race ready?

I would say the other brands suspension and geometry is just as race capable, if not more. Polaris factory team runs stock lower arms and trailing arms. Can Am Mav R lower arms and some do trailing arms. More recently upper front arms. Race results say that the Pro R and Mav R are leaps and bounds ahead of Speed.



The only thing Speed has over the other OEMs is the frame.
 
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Sand Shark said:
Did he not say in one of the videos add the door bars and race ready?

I would say the other brands suspension and geometry is just as race capable, if not more. Polaris factory team runs stock lower arms and trailing arms. Can Am Mav R lower arms and some do trailing arms. More recently upper front arms. Race results say that the Pro R and Mav R are leaps and bounds ahead of Speed.



The only thing Speed has over the other OEMs is the frame.
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Not everyone needs/wants to carry that much frame around. Even if the frame can take it, driving that hard all the time will eventually result in a yard sale.

Then there's the knock-on effect: heavier car needs stronger belts, more cooling, stronger axles, an engine farther from its design limits, etc. All of those are what happens when design goals aren't set and adhered to from the beginning, or at least paid attention to when changes are made. It's why Ford's Godzilla makes less power/torque than the 3.5 Ecoboost. Everyone thinks they can OE, until it's time to do OE shit. :ROFLMAO:
 
Rockwood said:
Not everyone needs/wants to carry that much frame around. Even if the frame can take it, driving that hard all the time will eventually result in a yard sale.

Then there's the knock-on effect: heavier car needs stronger belts, more cooling, stronger axles, an engine farther from its design limits, etc. All of those are what happens when design goals aren't set and adhered to from the beginning, or at least paid attention to when changes are made. It's why Ford's Godzilla makes less power/torque than the 3.5 Ecoboost. Everyone thinks they can OE, until it's time to do OE shit. :ROFLMAO:
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Time to slap a 3.5 Ecoboost in the F250 and F350. LOL!
 
Rockwood said:
Not everyone needs/wants to carry that much frame around. Even if the frame can take it, driving that hard all the time will eventually result in a yard sale.

Then there's the knock-on effect: heavier car needs stronger belts, more cooling, stronger axles, an engine farther from its design limits, etc. All of those are what happens when design goals aren't set and adhered to from the beginning, or at least paid attention to when changes are made. It's why Ford's Godzilla makes less power/torque than the 3.5 Ecoboost. Everyone thinks they can OE, until it's time to do OE shit. :ROFLMAO:
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👏👏👏
 
### **2024 SNORE Speed UTV Rage at the River Race Recap**

Last weekend, the 2024 SNORE Speed UTV Rage at the River brought the racing season to an exciting close with its iconic 3-day showdown in Laughlin, Nevada. With nearly 90 UTV entries, this event was one of the most competitive and largest races of the year. Drivers Robby Gordon, Max Gordon, Todd Romano, and Bronsen Chiaramonte represented Speed UTV in the highly competitive SXS Pro Turbo Class, using the race as a proving ground for cutting-edge product developments and design updates.

### **Race Overview**
The Rage at the River is a short-course sprint race like no other. Cars start four-wide, demanding top-notch performance from both drivers and vehicles. The course features sustained wide-open throttle sections with speeds exceeding 100 MPH, massive whoops ("Moon Bumps"), technical infield sections, and high-flying jumps. This challenging combination tested every aspect of vehicle performance, including suspension, cooling, clutching, and powertrain durability.

### **Testing Objectives**
Speed UTV leveraged this race to test several key developments:
- **E85 Tune**: Robby, Max, and Bronsen ran E85 to evaluate its performance and the durability of the clutching and belts.
- **Pump Gas Tune**: Todd ran the stock tune for the same comparative data.
- **Suspension Setup**: The course’s had a mix of whoops, jumps, high-speed chatter, and tight corners.
- **Cooling Systems**: Sustained wide-open throttle and muddy conditions tested the limits of engine cooling, including water, oil, and intake charge temperatures.

### **Qualifying Recap**
Day 1 qualifying showcased the potential of Speed UTV’s efforts:
- **Bronsen Chiaramonte and Max Gordon**: Dominated qualifying, taking 1st and 2nd with a 4-second margin over the nearest competitor.
- **Robby Gordon and Todd Romano**: Encountered setbacks when both entered limp mode: A disconnected ECUs or Battery requires time to relearn max boost settings. Any form of wheel spin can during the relearn process can cause over boost and will put the car in limp mode. This happened during qualifying and put both cars in limp mode midway through the qualifying lap. Despite this, valuable lessons were learned and will be shared through service centers and the owner’s manual. Going forward any vehicle that has an ECU re-flash or battery disconnect will require a specific relearn process, that will teach the ECU its boost thresholds and targets. If over boost is ever experienced during the re learn process, you can shut the car off entirely and on restart it will clear limp mode and continue to relearn.

### **Race Day 1**
The first race day proved to be as demanding as expected:
- **Max Gordon**: Suffered an oil line failure on lap one, sidelining him early.
- **Robby Gordon**: Retired after sustaining damage to the oil pan, ending his weekend prematurely.
- **Bronsen Chiaramonte**: Finished 6th, hindered by a blown CVT belt due to high of an RPM with the E85 clutch setup. Adjustments were made overnight to add clutch weight for Day 2.
- **Todd Romano**: Encountered a broken rim and axle after avoiding a rolled competitor, costing 20 minutes and relegating him to 23rd place. Despite the setback, the production *El Diablo* was making its way through the pack.

### **Race Day 2**
Day 2 was cut short by a red flag after a major crash on lap 3, but the team continued to gather critical data:
- **Bronsen Chiaramonte**: Finished 4th, just a minute behind the winner. Adjusted clutch weights improved RPM control but revealed belt slip at 75 MPH. This valuable insight has us looking into future secondary spring development to better handle the increased torque of the E85 tune while lowering the overall max RPM.
- **Max Gordon**: Suffered a shock failure due to the course’s punishing demands, ending his day early.
- **Todd Romano**: Battled through the field from the back but lost time due to a right rear axle failure caused by wheel-to-wheel contact while passing a competitor. Despite this, Todd’s production *El Diablo* continued to demonstrate reliability and competitiveness.
- **Robby Gordon**: Did not race Day 2, as he departed for Vietnam to oversee 2025 vehicle builds.

### **Key Takeaways**
The 2024 SNORE Speed UTV Rage at the River provided valuable insights:
- **Cooling Systems**: No vehicles experienced overheating, even under the harshest conditions.
- **Suspension Performance**: The Speed cars, handled the mixed terrain and challenging conditions as expected, allowing the Speed team to racer the front all day.
- **Clutching and Belts**: Significant progress was made and additional testing and tuning will be done to allow both the E85 and pump gas tunes to get the most from the motor and top speed.
- **Production Car Development**: Todd’s production car proved to be reliable and is closing the gap to podium pace. Todd raced in a production *El Diablo* running our pump gas tune. One of the key limitations we identified was in top speed. While the E85 tune allowed cars to achieve speeds over 100 MPH uphill and 105–110 MPH downhill, the pump gas tune maxed out at 75 MPH in the uphill sand washes and 100 MPH downhill. This difference significantly impacted lap times, especially on the high-speed sections. Moving forward, we plan to conduct additional testing to find ways to recover some of that lost speed.

### **Final Thoughts**
Speed UTV thanks the racers, fans, customers, and SNORE for an incredible season finale. Despite the challenges, the team’s efforts paid off, with a 1-2 finish in qualifying and Bronsen Chiaramonte securing 6th and 4th place finishes on days 1 and 2. The production *El Diablo* continues to evolve, showcasing its potential as a competitive and dependable platform. We look forward to building on these successes in 2025!
 
Sand Shark said:
Did he not say in one of the videos add the door bars and race ready?

I would say the other brands suspension and geometry is just as race capable, if not more. Polaris factory team runs stock lower arms and trailing arms. Can Am Mav R lower arms and some do trailing arms. More recently upper front arms. Race results say that the Pro R and Mav R are leaps and bounds ahead of Speed.



The only thing Speed has over the other OEMs is the frame.
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What I believe was said was for the cage & chassis to be Score race legal, you would need to weld up the tube connectors and add door bars and the chassis will pass tech. No other brand can say that.

Race results 100% show the Pro R & Mav R are ahead of Speed. But are those cars stock? Its a fact that we all can agree, the Polaris & Can Am are proven reliable in the powertrain dept, where as the Speed is not. That is clearly their biggest hurdle right now.

Not a single Polaris or Can Am that raced RATR are running stock showroom shocks with just aftermarket springs. The Speed is. I’ve confirmed with RG in the past, the only thing done to the shocks on any of the full race Speed’s, or the rent a ride Bandits is springs, and maybe a few turns on the external adjusters. The shocks themselves are 100% OEM production right off the assembly floor. A few shock tuners like DownSouth have said they did zero valving tuning, and the shock oil Speed is using looks to be the same as King in the production shock.

If and when Speed fixes the issues. If and when Speed can get cars in customers hands. When we start seeing customers & racers build, prep and race the Speed. I think we will see better results in racing and in general reliability. Chassis & stock suspension are not Speeds issues. It’s clutching & powertrain temps.
 
NIKAL said:
What I believe was said was for the cage & chassis to be Score race legal, you would need to weld up the tube connectors and add door bars and the chassis will pass tech. No other brand can say that.

Race results 100% show the Pro R & Mav R are ahead of Speed. But are those cars stock? Its a fact that we all can agree, the Polaris & Can Am are proven reliable in the powertrain dept, where as the Speed is not. That is clearly their biggest hurdle right now.

Not a single Polaris or Can Am that raced RATR are running stock showroom shocks with just aftermarket springs. The Speed is. I’ve confirmed with RG in the past, the only thing done to the shocks on any of the full race Speed’s, or the rent a ride Bandits is springs, and maybe a few turns on the external adjusters. The shocks themselves are 100% OEM production right off the assembly floor. A few shock tuners like DownSouth have said they did zero valving tuning, and the shock oil Speed is using looks to be the same as King in the production shock.

If and when Speed fixes the issues. If and when Speed can get cars in customers hands. When we start seeing customers & racers build, prep and race the Speed. I think we will see better results in racing and in general reliability. Chassis & stock suspension are not Speeds issues. It’s clutching & powertrain temps.
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The biggest hurdle for racing is RG himself. Why is he not racing the car with a stock tune to get data on what clutch set up works and allows the belt to survive and cooling issues. That is what will help his customers, not running some E85 race tune.

I am not sure why a team would want to invest in racing a Speed UTV. The team would have to figure everything out on their own and at the end it will cost you the same to get a Speed UTV reliable and race ready as it would to build a competitive Mav R or Pro R.

At this juncture they have plenty of desert race time and should have this car sorted out for racing. It was RG telling us all his car was years ahead of the competition.
 
I don’t think a revalve for course conditions is a huge impediment to a racing effort serious on winning.
 
Sand Shark said:
...

I am not sure why a team would want to invest in racing a Speed UTV. The team would have to figure everything out on their own and at the end it will cost you the same to get a Speed UTV reliable and race ready as it would to build a competitive Mav R or Pro R.

At this juncture they have plenty of desert race time and should have this car sorted out for racing. It was RG telling us all his car was years ahead of the competition.
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I think every team runs in to these issues with a new vehicle. A consumer based product in a race environment is going to get punished like no company can realistically test for. RG is gonna be RG; he goes full retard. Hopefully he has the infrastructure to overcome the early issues (not sure we can call them early at this point).
 
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