Update after my first “real” rides:
I finally got time to take the Speed out this weekend. It had ~10 miles on it and I put about 50 more on in 3 short rides. The idea was to go over the whole car doing a basic “nut and bolt”, go for a short ride, go over it again, lather-rise-repeat. All riding was “desert” type riding outside of Vegas (more accurately, South of Henderson riding out directly from a buddy’s house). It’s your typical mix of tighter, rockier trails; faster pole-line roads; lots of whoops; and a few silty washes.
Right off the top - this thing is incredible.
To be clear, desert type driving is one of the areas I’m least experienced. I have a lot of dune time, a fair amount of dirt/forest experience, and of course my AutoX/Road Course time way back in the day. However, I’ve never really spent a LOT of time in desert terrain. In the past I have done several trips to places like Walker River Resort (where we ride out to watch the Best in the Desert races come by) Moon Rocks, etc. Now that I live in Vegas I’ll be doing a lot more desert (one of the motivations behind getting the Speed). Still, I am not all that experienced in the des (more on that in a bit…) and wouldn’t consider myself an expert.
Most of the RZRs I’ve had; specifically the ones I have the most miles and hours in, have been 64” width units so not a super-fair comparison to the Speed. I did have a full HCR long-travel (with giant King shocks) 4-seat unit that was of a similar overall size as the Speed, but due to issues with keeping it running (Z1 swap) I never got a ton of miles in it. I’ve also never used any of my “rails” in the dirt/desert, nor have I been in something like a Trophy Truck. I have run some built trucks/Jeeps in dirt and desert, including my WJ that’s on triple bypasses with hydraulic bumps… but it’s not even remotely the same type of vehicle.
So, all of that said… this thing is incredible. First, it just feels SO much safer and more stout than any SxS I’ve owned or been in (including that Z1 swapped RZR with the full HCR suspension, SDR cage/doors etc.). I’ve already mentioned how awesome fit and finish is on the SPeed, but when you’re using it you notice it even more. I just feels like a quality unit. Everything seemed to work like it should right off the bat. I did initially have trouble getting it to shift into 4wd, but I was following what “the internet” says and trying to do it stationary. I tried rolling a little bit (with the front tires turned) and that did the trick, after that it shifts in/out of 4 (and on into 4wd lock) like butter.
Shifting through the gears is super solid with a positive feel in the ratcheting shifter even stationary, I never had it fight me going into any gear. I was also able to shift it between forward gears rolling, but getting it just right is tough with the CVT. I’m used to sand car sequential transmissions, so I guess I have a leg-up there, however the CVT makes it harder to get the downshifts right (or at least it did for me). I don’t really see pushing it in this regard, but it is nice if you forget and take off in 1 (or are down in 1 for a slow “crawling” section) you can upshift a gear easily and reliably.
I didn’t feel any of the “feedback” people complain about in the steering (I’ve ranted on this before, IMHO it’s not feedback, but chatter they are feeling) however my PS seemed notably heavier than my buddy’s Jeffe that was also brand new and on its initial rides. Overall, the steering felt pretty good but a bit numb (in terms of actual steering feedback the way I’ve always heard it defined by racers) and the car’s balance at slow-speed is pretty pushy out of the box.
Now that I got out and used the car properly, I can better understand what people have been saying about the brakes. I think people are still misinterpreting/mislabeling what is going on. IMHO the issue at this point is really pad compound. The pads lack initial bite, but the brakes do have the power to lock up even up at speed; it just takes some serious pedal effort. For most regular situations I was left-foot-braking and didn’t have any issues stopping the car or running into fade. However, the lack of initial bite means you’re way harder on the pedal when you get close to lockup, which inherently makes modulation tougher. It’s harder to make minute adjustments when you’re already exerting a lot of force into the pedal. As I said, I didn’t run into fade but I suspect it could be a problem in real race conditions (which mine will never see). They’re just not giant brakes, they’re non-vented rotors, and these are heavy cars capable of carrying a lot of speed.
As far as other observations, the overall seating position and ergo are great. The only semi-glaring exception is the 4wd shifter being right where your right knee ends up sometimes. I do want to mess with seating position on mine and dial it in better. I like to be “up on the wheel” NASCAR style, and I did opt for the quick-release and 1.5” spacer for the steering wheel which help. Still, I could stand to sit a bit closer/higher. The very tall doors with their own nice arm rest on the door cards are a huge bonus, I have a TERRIBLE habit of resting my left arm up on top, or even out of the door when “cruising” in SxSs. Yes, I know… terrible. With the Speed you don’t naturally want to put an arm up on or out of the door, and of course the window nets it’s impossible even if you were to try.
So, how does it drive?
I don’t even know where to start, but I guess we’ll start with the engine. Running around the little motor is almost always on boost and actually very responsive. You get some turbo lag, and some CVT hesitation on big transitions (as in fully off throttle, slow down significantly, then back on throttle). However, if you maintain throttle decently and left-foot-brake you can mitigate a lot of that. I was regularly carrying 50-70 MPH in sections, and I wasn’t using much WOT at all. The power is a bit deceiving though, you’re going so fast at part-throttle that you expect a lot more when you go WOT, but there’s not a whole lot more when you mat it. The clutching seems setup for the Speed Key tune (which buyers don’t/can’t have/use yet) as peak RPM is lower than I’d expect this thing to make peak power at.
Even being “down on RPM”, the car moves. Out in the desert you really need to run 4wd or you’re just drifting and can’t put power down effectively. I hit 85+ a few times on some washboard and slightly whooped pole-line type roads. I did some back of the napkin math on power to weight ratio comparing to my last XPT (2018 Fox Edition 2 seat, relatively modified but stock turbo and 91 octane) and the Speed should be WAY slower. The XPT would have been around 185 HP with the mods/tune (stock IIRC was 168) and it was probably about 1800lbs how it sat, giving it ~9.73 lbs/hp to push. Based on what others have scaled their El Diablos at, my car is probably every bit of 2,900lbs, maybe a bit more with my accessories. I had the spare tire in, I have the thicker skid plates, windshield, stereo etc. The car that weighed right around 2,900 on the Speed forum had all or most of those things too, so I think 2,900 should be close.
Anyway, at 225 HP the Speed would be 12.9 lbs/hp, meaning it should be far slower than the XPT was. The XPT felt peppier at low speed, but when it comes to putting on MPH the Speed seemed to be faster. Maybe it was just a matter of being able to carry so much more speed through different elements, but I was doing 50-70 MPH very regularly and got to 85+ MPH pretty quicky. The fastest I ever did in the XPT was ~85 MPH, but that was on the street and was a long WOT pull. The Speed did that on washboard/whoops mostly part throttle with a shorter WOT burst.
The suspension is what is incredible on this thing. Again, I’m not a Yuge desert guy, but it’s nothing like any SxS I’ve ever been in or driven (including X3s, XXs etc. not just my RZRs). The Speed feels so much more planted, stable and “flat.” I can assume the geometry RG harped on (particularly the minimal changes to track-width, and limited bump steer) is a big part of it, along with the overall gigantic travel numbers and equally gigantic shocks (with I forget, ~14 different bypass zones or something). It both eats up the big stuff (you can charge huge whoops at speed) and does relatively well in the little chatter. I even banged through some much slower sections with larger rocks (not rock crawling by any means) and it worked well. And when it came to mistakes, the suspension and build of this thing make all the difference…
…remember earlier I said I’m not an expert in the desert? Well, I made a big mistake, big. I had gotten over-confident and was hauling arse where I probably shouldn’t have been. I wasn’t the lead car, so there was some dust up, but I hung back far enough it had mostly cleared and I really have no excuse. I “missed” or at least misread a big “double” (not an actual man-made double, just a naturally forming double between two washes) and was carrying far too much speed to not get airborne, but not nearly enough speed to clear the double (and they were short/abrupt, not the type of shape you’d want to attempt connecting). I chicken-lifted last second, got airborne a little tail-up (not full-on lawn dart, credit to the car/long wheel base there I suppose) and landed nose-low into the face of the second hill. I was ready for it to hurt, probably a lot. I’m confident it would have been a tail-over-nose tumble in my prior 2-seat RZRs. In the Speed it was…
…smooth as silk. Seriously, like nothing even happened. The Speeds bottom out the internal bumps in the shocks before the chassis, and I can only assume I did bottom at least the front shocks, but it didn’t feel like it. After that ride I had the car up on the lift at my buddy’s and confirmed I never touched pan/skids. Maybe I’m exaggerating the situation, and maybe I only got in so far over my head because of what the car is capable of, but I really feel like the Speed saved me (and my better half) from some significant pain/injury, or worse.
So that’s the good stuff, what about the bad?
Well, belt temps are going to be an issue. It was only 60-70 F ambient temp where we were riding and we weren’t on long-long rides. I was still having to manage belt temps if I carried 70+ MPH. I saw ~240 at the most before I backed it down, going more like ~50 MPH the belt came back to the 180-220 range pretty quickly, so that’s acceptable. Still, as something meant to be “race ready” (with some chassis mods for legality) out of the box, the belt is going to be a big question mark. Based on what I saw I’m pretty sure the cover will be a flat-out no-go in the dunes.
Next, I got into limp mode 2-3 times from hitting 220 ECT. 220 is probably a bit low/conservative to set ECT limp mode at, but I’m okay with that. As stated, my car does have a windshield. I think the issue with heat-reversion and recycling the same hot air through the radiator over and over is even worse with the shorter 2-seat. Obviously the radiator is closer to the windshield vs. a 4-seater, so there’s less opportunity for air wrapping around the windshield to make it into the car and through the radiator. The roof is obviously shorter too, but I didn’t actually check to see if the roof scoop is any different between the 2 and 4 seat.
I do know that my buddy’s 4 seat without windshield literally always ran 20-30 degrees cooler. If anything it would run a little too-cold when not really being pushed. For example, we switched drivers on the way back from a sunset ride so I was driving the 4 seat without a windshield. Even pushing I don’t think I even saw 190, when we got closer to his neighborhood and neared the pavement we obviously slowed down and his car dropped to 154!!! Once my car hits ~180 it’ll never come back down below that.
Also, the heat reversion into the cab was almost unbearable (keep in mind it was only 60-70 out). Obviously, it’s a simple fix: take the windshield off… but it’s annoying that I paid ~$1150 for it. Of course, doing what we were doing we should have been wearing helmets anyway, and usually I’m religious about that. I got the fresh air pumper for just this reason, so I’ll just pop the windshield off for all but the coldest times of year. We’ll see if somebody comes up with a fix. I still need to get
@Rockwood pics of the whole shroud setup, people have also switched to better e-fans, and I think a totally reshaped roof with a much larger scoop would help as well. I guess people are also having success with a rear windshield preventing the heat reversion and presumably encouraging the fans to pull fresh air through the radiator.
While the factory stereo is pretty good, the door speakers are hot garbage. The magnet on my passenger side speaker totally separated from the housing internally (it was just flopping around in there) which obviously didn’t sound great. I replaced the door speakers with the next model up from Kicker which required wiring splicing, as well as self-tapping the new speakers into the door since Kicker had to make the mounting holes different between the models meaning I couldn’t use the very nice threaded inserts and countersunk allen-head screws Speed used for the stock setup. I’d say the stereo is now “good enough,” but no more. I need to take more or the dash area apart to get to the amp to do some tuning (specifically turning gain up to the sub so I can reduce the bass setting on the HU) but that’s super low on my list of priorities.
Finally, I need to dig into the dashes (I added the passenger side dash after purchase) and get a setup I really like. One major annoyance is the reverse cam doesn’t come up automatically when you put the thing in R… then there are SO FREAKING MANY DISPLAY OPTIONS to flip through to bring up the rear cam I basically just stopped using it. One of the reasons for adding the passenger side display was to leave the cameras up on the passenger side and keep the gauges up on the driver side. Well, the harness going to the passenger side only has the portion to get all the gauges and related functionality, but not the cameras. Ugh. Still, I found the passenger side display useful and set the driver side up with the crucial stuff to monitor in motion, and the secondary stuff on the passenger side. The amount of temps and readouts you get stock is actually really impressive. Obviously it has ECT, oil temp, oil pressure, etc… but it also has things like front and rear diff (diff/trans technically for rear) temps, Ethanol content, and a bunch more. What would be nice would be some “favorites” buttons to quickly get between my preferred display layouts and the cameras.
In summary, I’m very impressed and so far very happy with it. I have some things to iron out, but for the price I’m into this car (remember, I got the early-deposit pricing) I think it’d be impossible to beat. At the new sticker price I still think it’s a great buy for the “right” user, but for a more dune-focused buyer I’d say the X3 MavR thing with the DCT would be hard to pass up.
We were having so much fun, and trying to get so much done doing complete nut and bolts between rides I really didn’t get many pics. Speaking of the nut and bolt jobs on both cars the jam nuts on the big heim on the outer side of the upper front control arms were loose (like, backed allll the way off). Looking at the safety paint on them, IMHO they were never sufficiently tight. Once we got them tight, we were probably 30+ degrees past where the paint mark would indicate they had been. On my buddy’s 4-seater we found a few of his sway bar end link jam nuts had loosened up too. We didn’t find anything else loose on mine and everything else was good ‘n tight sitting where the safety paint marks were. The upper arm jam nuts that were loose are basically the only thing in that size, I wonder if they aren’t using a spec sufficient for the size? One other interesting thing, my car is 650 (but an El Diablo) and my buddy’s Jeffe is 651. On his car the sway bar “clamshell”/mount bolts have a 10mm head and are clearly smaller. 2 of them were pretty loose, and all 4 took some snugging (the back 2 are under a cover, and none are safety-painted like the majority of the rest of the car). On my car they are 13mm heads, much bigger visibly, and were all plenty tight.
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A few last things, it seems Speed has moved to silicon couplers for the intake/boost tubes now:
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This tank is for the front diff breather, but stock it just has the nipple on top with no hose at all. I know it’s probably extremely unimportant, but it just seems unfinished to leave the nipple wide-open and facing up. I’m sure it would never amount to enough to matter, but over time it seems like some dust could settle into the tank. We added a short run of hose with a simple clamp secured by a stock bolt to each car:
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BTW, the cover is off in the pics above because we swapped the belts on both cars after the first ride or two (IIRC the pic is actually car 651, not mine). We didn’t have any belt issues, but they ship with the “Bondo” belts people seem to have more trouble with vs. the Speed-branded belts. Also, I’m a big fan of doing this with any new SxS. I’d rather do a belt swap in the garage than in the dunes or trails, and I’d rather have a broken-in spare vs. a brand new one. Even more importantly, with a brand-new design like this that I’m not familiar with I’d rather learn how to do the belt efficiently in the garage.
-TJ
