Speed UTV

[Rockwood]

While I agree with you in principle. I’d disagree that you think this is the case with Robby, Todd & Speed. Sure they jumped in the deep end and even Robby has admitted this was a bigger undertaking then he first though it would be. But I think they have forge through it way better then even the most experienced could have.
 

I don’t see them as over their heads. If they were trying building their own factory’s, and not using the experience CM’s they are. If they were rushing to market and overlooking the quality or testing, then I might agree with you.  Not once have Todd or Robby used the supply chain issues as an excuse to not delivering. That’s a fact, and everyone and their brother has used that excuse. Lastly you feel they are out of touch and in a death spiral. Clearly we don’t agree with this. There are way smarter people involved then you & I, and their manufacturing partners would not have invested the millions they have, and be continuing down this path if it was a death spiral. The Chinese way would be to have to fall on their own sword if they lost on an investment like this. They would have put an end to this whole production if they thought it was a death spiral or suicide. 
 

And the idea that this is taking to long. It’s actually a “engineering marvel” (remember that phase) in what they have done is such a short time. Maybe it’s seems long because of the transparency and since we have known about the project since day 1. Most products we don’t know about until they are ready to go to market. We don’t know the time line it took to get there? We do know it took Polaris longer to develop the Pro R and then they sat on it for well over a year because of Covid and the supply chain. 
 

Here are a few examples I can share if other companies time lines. We build the ultra cap module for BRP’s snow sled starting system. Their engineers and ours are working on a smaller module for the 2024 line up. They are working on the 2024 design and we all know it’s only going to be small refinements, not a whole new ground up sled. 
 

About 3 years ago we did a module for Hyundai/Kia. It’s going into a “black box” of sorts that will record crash data and also runs cameras in the car to record front & rear crash video. It was said they are developing this type of stuff and it could take 5 years before it’s seen in a production car. 
 

Lastly and this is a cool one. This past week I was in Akron OH for the Soap Box Derby Championship that my daughter was racing in. One of the kids we had to race, his dad was works for Ford at the Cleveland engine plant where the Eco Boost engines are made. John is the cylinder head div manager. Another guy at the races who’s son was racing was in quality control for Ford in Michigan. Can’t remember his name?  Some how these two guys paths met at the races. Anyways we got to talking and because I’m from Cali the Michigan guy was asking me about off road racing and which eventually lead to Robby Gordon, and this guy knew about this Speed UTV thing. He’s been watching it on & off. They have Polaris 800 & 900 they ride the trails around the family home. The Michigan guy was telling John the engine plant guy how Robby is building this vehicle including the engine, trans, and the car is expected to be released this year and it’s only been 2 1/2 years to do the whole project. This is the guy that said this project is an “Engineering Marvel” if it is what he’s seen on the videos? He said there is no way Ford could make a go kart in the time it’s taking to build this vehicle. I was telling him how they are using Arrington engines to develop the engine, which he knew from Dodge. And they were manufacturing overseas. John the cylinder head guy said it can take Ford 3-4 years just to do a engine & development and then there is no guarantee they end up using it. Transmissions can take twice as long to develop. 

John asked me when were we leaving OH, and if I was sticking around this week? He said might be able to get me in the plant to show me around. But we were leaving on Sunday. He gave me the address and told me to drive by on my way to the airport, especially since my sister has a new Bronco and the Bronco engines come out of that plant. We also talked about the sh!tty water pump design the the 3.5lL engine in my wife’s Edge. Lol! Yes I’m still pissed about that one!! 

My daughters in the white car. This was part of the Challenge race event. 

View attachment 38301

Derby Championship track on Akron Oh. 

View attachment 38302
 

Here we are losing to John’s son Garrett by .004 of a second. This knocked us out of making the second round which was our goal. This still hurts! Garrett went on to finish 4th in the Championship race out of the 72 in our Local Super Stock class. 

View attachment 38303
 

Here is the Ford Cleveland engine plant. 
View attachment 38304

Nicely done on the soap box car.  Are they spec chassis you set up and a lot comes down to setup, small parts improvements and driving? 

Ford definitely wouldn't be able to get those parts or chassis out in that amount of time, but it has more to do with requirements than how amazing Speed is.  Designing a passenger vehicle for people to drive every day for 100,000 miles and not be permanently pissed off at you all while complying with crash standards, unicorn magic emissions standards, CAFE, 60,000 mile powertrain warranty, and everything else is a big job.  Every day the plant stops because of a fackup you didn't foresee costs the company $1M+.  With the quantities they're ordering, performance requirements, and the cost targets they're hitting, there's no "whoops, we'll just re-deisgn it".  I guarantee those engineers were more jealous than amazed at the speed (hehe, pun) of development and freedom to blank slate engineer. :biggrin:

I had an internship at Nissan in Gardena.  Thought automotive engineering was going to be my gig.  The horrors I saw there made me re-think my whole collegiate path, LOL.  The design reviews, the bean counters forcing reiterations to shave ounces in the name of materials cost (not performance), the constant bureaucracy, re-utilization of existing tooling, cross-platform reviews, aesthetics, etc, etc, etc. Fack. That. I'm fairly certain that NSXs, GT500s, Z06 Vettes and other "Halo" cars are just as much morale boosters for engineers as they are for marketing, since most auto manufacturers rarely make money on them.

Engines and cylinder heads.  Speed UTV's engineers have to worry about 4 things: power, driveability, reasonable reliability and manufacturing cost, and emissions.  In that order.  Reasonable reliability because 6 months is all you get, and most people think you're amazingly lucky to get 10 seasons with 10,000 miles out of a motor.  Imagine if ANY auto manufacturer had an engine that only got 10,000 miles out of a powertrain.  Driveability is important in a UTV, but Bert's service department probably isn't inundated with "it sounds funny" or "it clunks sometimes" or "something's rattling under the dash" service tickets, and Speed isn't going to have to buy it back if the customer brings it in 15 times because of it.  Emissions, LOL.  UTVs have nothing compared to passenger cars.

On top of that, there's fuel economy and NVH.  Those Ford engineers are trying to make competitive horsepower and powerbands all while keeping all fussiness of this power generation away from the driver's butt and ears, making barely a whisper of pollution, and sipping fuel at the absolute minimum rate while not blowing up and staying under emissions thresholds.

So yeah, not apples to apples.  Not even close. :biggrin:

 

[1HasBeen]

 Imagine if ANY auto manufacturer had an engine that only got 10,000 miles out of a powertrain.

6.0 PSD

 

[Rockwood]

6.0 PSD

LOL.  

Ford chit out hundreds of millions on that motor in warranty repairs alone, not to mention lemon law buybacks.  Point made: Speed would've only had to repair a small handful since almost none died inside 6 months. :biggrin:

 

[Dune-Track-N]

another insta post from RG

https://www.instagram.com/p/CghS3tGAwxO/

 

[1HasBeen]

LOL.  

Ford chit out hundreds of millions on that motor in warranty repairs alone, not to mention lemon law buybacks.  Point made: Speed would've only had to repair a small handful since almost none died inside 6 months. :biggrin:

That's what happens when you deal with Navijunk, the Typhoid Mary of the diesel world.

 

[DTA]

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[jginsandiego]

I ordered SEP 2019. I am much happier with the the 2022 cars than the 2020 cars. I would say 100% of current preorders are as well, as the ones who were not have already sold their spots most likely for a profit.

Yep agree I would I have never bought what they first talked about. When I saw them testing at glamis I knew they were doing something I was interested in. Will wait dont care just want it solid as can be. I have already purchased all the BD lights and have temporary installed them on my Manx for now. Last season I replaced my original drivers seat in my manx with a really nice Simpson seat mostly because I have a bad back and wanted a better seat w/heat. That will be going in to the Base model also. Awhile ago I got a new intercom and radio already have it mounted on a aluminium plate ready to be trimmed to fit and install. I have a Switch pro for power and control of my accessories. Ordered windshield and a set of beadlocks will keep a non bead lock for spare. Chupacabra Cuero Side mirrors  using them on manx for now also. and a dune gear dome light. I also have a couple screws in my left ankle and drop foot from an injury at the 2008 Baja 1000 my foot is getting worse with age now mid 50s looking forward to not having to use a clutch. Other bonus over what I have now power steering done RIGHT and doors no more climbing in and out. Best thing is going back to a car with a real reverse gear compared to my 091VW transaxle and 4WD. Just be patient I see we are almost there. I would be more worried about the closure of riding areas or the cost of fuel no matter what you drive especially in CA. 

 

[CampfiresNbrews]

I get what you’re saying @Fullthrottleguy but you’re the one that made the Theranos comparison comparing Speed to a scam. Then later you say “These guys are over their heads  - thats obvious - are They a scam - absolutely not - are they going to make it ... Maybe, and I hope They do. “   So yeah a little confusing for me. 
 

If you’ve seen the latest IG posts form Speed you’ll see what @NIKAL is talking about. Huge facility building parts and looks like they’ll have plenty of cars here very soon. It really hasn’t been that long like you think it has. Maybe it seems so cause we’ve been talking about it for some time now. Check out the link @Dune-Track-N just posted and tell me this is going to fail. Anyways I respect a lot of what you say , just disagree with you on your speculations on this one.  
 

 

[NIKAL]

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[Rockwood]

Yes the Stock & Super Stock cars are a kit you purchase directly from Soap Box Derby. This greatly kept the cars even and within the rules. But there is still tons & tons or little tweaks, adjustments and knowledge that goes into building & setting a car up. Then the kids have to really drive them. It sounds easy, but there is talent in getting down these tracks. Our car is one of the Alpine Club cars, so I’m at a great disadvantage compared to most. Plus I don’t have all the crazy set up tools & measuring jig tools many have. I did our alinement using a simple tape measure. Then there is figuring your weights and where to set weight and how much. I moved 2 lbs and it made a big difference. That’s how sensitive it can be. These are the reasons our goal this year was to just make it to round 2. That would have been a success for us. We did it in a Stock car in 2019. This year we raced in Super Stock as my daughter can no longer race in Stock. The biggest difference between stock & Super is the total weight you can be, a little different body shape and the opening to get in is larger as the kids are larger. But both cars are the same overall size. 
 

If we were to get real serious then we would start building our own cars and start to Travel & rally. But it’s harder on the West Coast and takes a greater commitment as the tracks are much farther away. Not sure how much longer we will do this? My daughter loves it though. 
 

Here is my daughters Stock car in 2019 at the Championships. 
View attachment 38344

Helped the son with his Pinewood derby car for scouts.  Super fun maximizing gravity.

 

[NIKAL]

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[Rockwood]

How olds your son? He could try SBD? The Alpine club has cars to put kids in. 

13 now, small for his age.

 

[NIKAL]

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[NIKAL]

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[Sand Shark]

For all those who think the Speed team is over there head, or in a death spiral, won’t make it to market ect.. 

You really need to humble yourself and watch the latest IG live that Robby posted. He takes you through several departments of the factory. The steel dies for injection molding are huge. Clearly this place is qualified to build what Speed has created and if Robby is scared, over his head, or in a death spiral. It does not show. 
 

He mentions again this is just the beginning and a full size Truck is in the future of Speed. The facility he’s at is currently building another 300,000 sqft engineering building. This is on top of the 7.1 million sqft the facility has. 
 

Robby & Daniel went out to the test facility on the property and even at 1am in the morning a Speed UTV was being tested in the dark. He also mentioned they have a drag strip and 1 mile oval track? 
 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CghheGEptBI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Impressive to see.  He is just one small company.  Imagine the manufacturing going on for the big companies with multiple vehicles.  The injection mold machines were cool. 

How long is RG staying in China?  Seems like they may be there for another month.

If he delivers cars at the Sand Show will he be racing the Baja 1000?  

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

I get what you’re saying @Fullthrottleguy but you’re the one that made the Theranos comparison comparing Speed to a scam. Then later you say “These guys are over their heads  - thats obvious - are They a scam - absolutely not - are they going to make it ... Maybe, and I hope They do. “   So yeah a little confusing for me. 
 

If you’ve seen the latest IG posts form Speed you’ll see what @NIKAL is talking about. Huge facility building parts and looks like they’ll have plenty of cars here very soon. It really hasn’t been that long like you think it has. Maybe it seems so cause we’ve been talking about it for some time now. Check out the link @Dune-Track-N just posted and tell me this is going to fail. Anyways I respect a lot of what you say , just disagree with you on your speculations on this one.  
 

I did not say it was a scam - Reposted something someone posted on a forum c- sorry about that

But yeah - its emotional - I want them to win (Speed). But I feel Supply chain is mostly an excuse  - Be honest and just say "Its gonna be a while" - Not "we are building 50 cars in April and"  When I talked to Robbie at the SSSS he was as always super nice but basically said the cars there were his final pre-production run.

The old saying "Bad news doesn't get better over time".

I get what @NIKAL is saying about multiple CMs - thats always what I do - its pretty common - keeps them all honest and lets you chose the best at what they do

the other old saying is ":fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me".

I just want some Speed cars out there  and want to buy one 

 

[Crusty]

Don't mistake skepticism as wanting to see this company fail..

I honestly don't think there is a person here that wants to see that.

Perhaps just too sensitive a subject...and or jokes get old too.

But that's all there is right now, jokes and comments in between the moments when real progress is shown via an update.

Everyone here is tuned in no doubt ...

 

[FOG]

Don't mistake skepticism as wanting to see this company fail..

I honestly don't think there is a person here that wants to see that.

Perhaps just too sensitive a subject...and or jokes get old too.

But that's all there is right now, jokes and comments in between the moments when real progress is shown via an update.

Everyone here is tuned in no doubt ...

I agree. 
I hope Speed UTV is successful. It will be good for the industry. Will I buy one? Possibly, maybe a Gen 2 or 3. How well they perform and reliability will be key factors for me. 
In the meantime I find this thread informative and entertaining. 

 

[jginsandiego]

Don't mistake skepticism as wanting to see this company fail..

I honestly don't think there is a person here that wants to see that.

Perhaps just too sensitive a subject...and or jokes get old too.

But that's all there is right now, jokes and comments in between the moments when real progress is shown via an update.

Everyone here is tuned in no doubt ...

Yes I agree

Look what just walked through my neighborhood as I was sitting on the front porch babysitting my niece. I have no idea what these two were up to but my 14-year-old nephew was interested in watching.

Maybe they can rent this to some of the haters.

 

[onanysunday]

For all those who think the Speed team is over there head, or in a death spiral, won’t make it to market ect.. 

You really need to humble yourself and watch the latest IG live that Robby posted. He takes you through several departments of the factory. The steel dies for injection molding are huge. Clearly this place is qualified to build what Speed has created and if Robby is scared, over his head, or in a death spiral. It does not show. 
 

He mentions again this is just the beginning and a full size Truck is in the future of Speed. The facility he’s at is currently building another 300,000 sqft engineering building. This is on top of the 7.1 million sqft the facility has. 
 

Robby & Daniel went out to the test facility on the property and even at 1am in the morning a Speed UTV was being tested in the dark. He also mentioned they have a drag strip and 1 mile oval track? 
 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CghheGEptBI/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Starting to be fun and entertaining to watch. Looking good.