Speed UTV

[tjZ06]

LOL!   So are you thinking the 10 pre-production cars will be off the line by August at the earliest?    

Not even sure what to think anymore, to be honest.  

-TJ

 

[Dune-Track-N]

Clearly I'm not a baller... all these callers with 2, 3, 4, 10 cars on order DAMN!

I still have mixed feeling about NOT pre-ordering last year. Sometimes I wish I had, but then the delays, having to paying for all the goodies (probably wouldn't have any added) long before production would have me on serious anxiety stressing.

 

[tjZ06]

Hmmmm...

-TJ
 

 

[SandTrap]

I have a question maybe y'all can answer as I am wondering. I have seen pics of Robby out running the two seater last year "testing". Then pics of him out running the 4 seater "testing". Is there any pics of Both the cars complete side by side or out running together? Are they just part swapping drivetrain and shocks and etc on different platforms? I am not trying to Bash robbie or anything but I have a lot of friends that have put $$ out waiting for these cars some that have been waiting 1 1/2 so far and still waiting.

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

Hmmmm...

-TJ
 

"Feature creep"  or "Buying time" 

Its like when the engineering team at a start up gets called into a board meeting and has to explain why the project is 6 months behind and why funding should not be cut off ...

 

[tjZ06]

I have a question maybe y'all can answer as I am wondering. I have seen pics of Robby out running the two seater last year "testing". Then pics of him out running the 4 seater "testing". Is there any pics of Both the cars complete side by side or out running together? Are they just part swapping drivetrain and shocks and etc on different platforms? I am not trying to Bash robbie or anything but I have a lot of friends that have put $$ out waiting for these cars some that have been waiting 1 1/2 so far and still waiting.

Those test cars are "mostly" the actual Speed SxS.  However, they're not frames off the production line, they are tube sets from the production line, that were then welded up by humans in-house in Robby's shop vs. at the production facility.  The front diff/bulkheads were billet prototypes vs. the production pieces.  Etc. etc.  So, it's not like they're just the production motor in a XX, but it's also not like they're a TRUE, right off the line production car.  They are somewhere in the middle of those two... 

"Feature creep"  or "Buying time" 

Its like when the engineering team at a start up gets called into a board meeting and has to explain why the project is 6 months behind and why funding should not be cut off ...

A little of column A, a little of column B?  

-TJ

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

We had a small sign on the wall in the lab. "“There comes a time in every project when you must shoot the engineers and begin production.”

Ours were no exception. They would fine tune everything until we put them onto another project.

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

I have a question maybe y'all can answer as I am wondering. I have seen pics of Robby out running the two seater last year "testing". Then pics of him out running the 4 seater "testing". Is there any pics of Both the cars complete side by side or out running together? Are they just part swapping drivetrain and shocks and etc on different platforms? I am not trying to Bash robbie or anything but I have a lot of friends that have put $$ out waiting for these cars some that have been waiting 1 1/2 so far and still waiting.

Yes. There are actually 3 completely built units. 2 prototype and 1 production test unit. I saw a helicopter video where I think I saw the 2 seater chasing the 4 seater with a video camera. Yes, they are 2 completely separate vehicles. The 2 seater was built first and is a prototype that was wired up with all kinds of instrumentation. For example, the turbo and exhaust manifold are 2 piece, with extra holes for EGT probes. They also switched from one clutch brand to another, which not only shifts better, but it is designed to be tuned by the owner without tools, just a sharp object to depress a spring without disassembly.

The 4 seater was built later and was still a prototype, but much farther along, so it has the one piece exhaust/turbo housing and it's inconel, which is very hard to machine. They originally stated the production units would be inconel, but they learned it was eating tooling so they switched to stainless steel for production. On this one they also found out that the shape of the clutch could be machined, but not forged. They let the foundry redesign the shape slightly and this one has a forged clutch that performs the same, but it's stronger.

There is also a production model that was built on the production line by robotic welders using all production parts. It is 1 of 10 that are supposed to be production test units, driven by test drivers they know. They're supposed to beat on them hard and try to break them, hopefully in the summer heat. So far, only 1 has been built and they're no longer talking about when the other 9 will come off the line.

My guess is they're running into the same supply problem everyone else is and that's holding up the rest. I'm not going to worry about it because I have no control over it and neither does Robby. The sooner the shipping problems are solved, the better, but it's going to take time.

As far as your friends, do they realize that it takes Elon Musk and his team of top engineers 4 yrs to come out with a new model Tesla? That's not a whole new car from scratch, that's just to take an existing car and tweak the body style and update some things. They're using an established platform and power train from previous models. So for anyone, much less someone new to mass production, to design a completely new vehicle faster than 4 yrs is quite a feat.

As much as they want it now, despite being told last Thanksgiving, everyone needs to be realistic about how long it takes to design and build a new car. Then throw in supply shortages, and it's going to take longer. They get here when they get here. Agonizing over it or bitching about it (like I see on FB) does no good, it only drives themselves crazier. Sure, I'd like to have mine now, but it's out my hands and Robby's as well. I'm satisfied with the weekly updates and his transparency about the whole process.

 

[Rampage42]

So, when will we see the factory? I asked Robby today on Instagram, he said never, no manufacturer does. I sent him links to several. His replay, I’m not showing it to you or anyone. I have screenshots to prove this. 
I have to say, this is looking a lot more like a scam or Ponzi scheme. 
Last month I grilled him and he blocked me, nice, ask real questions and get blocked. 
He unblocked me but only after filling my Instagram account with spam, a real class act. 
Don’t  get me wrong, I hope he pulls this off, but time to show a factory, jigs, parts and prove this is not a smoke show. 
Anyone see the ten preproduction units, oh ya, they don’t exist! That was in May, never happened. No comment why, just another weekly video with zero substance.

Ask hard questions, you will get blocked, be careful.

I asked him today, prove me and thousands of others wrong, show a production line.

The video posted of a “production” unit is not at  a factory, some old building with old equipment that has not been used in years.

Hope I’m wrong, but Robby is not showing us anything to prove otherwise. One or two prototypes is not any real proof.  

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

So, when will we see the factory? I asked Robby today on Instagram, he said never, no manufacturer does. I sent him links to several. His replay, I’m not showing it to you or anyone. I have screenshots to prove this. 
I have to say, this is looking a lot more like a scam or Ponzi scheme. 
Last month I grilled him and he blocked me, nice, ask real questions and get blocked. 
He unblocked me but only after filling my Instagram account with spam, a real class act. 
Don’t  get me wrong, I hope he pulls this off, but time to show a factory, jigs, parts and prove this is not a smoke show. 
Anyone see the ten preproduction units, oh ya, they don’t exist! That was in May, never happened. No comment why, just another weekly video with zero substance.

Ask hard questions, you will get blocked, be careful.

I asked him today, prove me and thousands of others wrong, show a production line.

The video posted of a “production” unit is not at  a factory, some old building with old equipment that has not been used in years.

Hope I’m wrong, but Robby is not showing us anything to prove otherwise. One or two prototypes is not any real proof.  

Are you serious?

He sure has gone to a lot of trouble to design a whole lot of stuff and specify everything down to the exact type of nuts and bolts he's using (far superior to what the competition uses) just to pull off some kind of Ponzi scheme. He'd have to be an idiot to pull off the lowest profit, highest effort Ponzi scheme in history.

It's obvious you're a hater and nothing he could show you would ever change your mind. He apparently recognized that immediately and chose not to indulge you. He doesn't have to show you squat, despite what you *think* you're entitled to.

I can understand being skeptical if we all bought $800 pellet grills from an online seller for $99 who closed his account, but this is quite different.

Robby Gordon is a household name in off road racing and he strikes me as the type who doesn't quit, even if the going gets tough. I'm positive he has the knowledge to design these, I've seen the videos of the CAD drawings, the completed vehicles, the engine dyno testing and many of the production parts.

I have no idea who you are, besides someone who has an internet connection.

 

[ANGRYBUTTCRACK]

Spoke to my buddy and he’s like number 277, has a 2 seat Diablo on order… fully enclosed with factory AC.

He’s not tripping and thinks 95% of haters are just trolls who don’t have one on order.. or they work for polaris…

My $.02

Abc

PS. Unrelated I went to Cook’s corner today

 

[Johnny]

So many Haters , WHY ?. If he fails, Then hate. I myself never thought about owning a side x side and probably never will,

But why hate, The guy is trying to bring the best car to market in probably the worst time in history, Look at the car industry, It is hard to buy a truck in today's world . This covid thing affected every industry.Give the guy a break. Let's be positive and hope for the best. It can't be easy in the times we our in.Think positive.   

       Johnny

 

[Realbadlarry]

Yep, people with fragile ego's have to attack him.... if it fails, it fails, but I'm pretty sure they got more money that just he deposit money sunk in this hole already.... you see a scam or a ponzi scheme the people take the money and run....at the start before anyone can figure out if it's real. 

and people wonder why nobody wants to try to think outside the box.....because the trolls crucify them at every turn...why would you want to take the risk?  There are a million easier ways to scam people out of money than this....

 

[CampfiresNbrews]

He don’t need our money. It’s all about revenge. He wants to put a hurting on AC and Polaris for the way they treated him. He's going to build a car that will definitely surpass anything that is out there. Not hard to do for a guy of his caliber. Safety, geometry and stout is what I’m after and this car checks those boxes. We all win in the end.
He’s got to much time and money invested in this thing to be a Ponzi scheme. Are you the guy who he got mad at on IG and said he would buy your car back? 

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

As far as your friends, do they realize that it takes Elon Musk and his team of top engineers 4 yrs to come out with a new model Tesla? That's not a whole new car from scratch, that's just to take an existing car and tweak the body style and update some things. They're using an established platform and power train from previous models. So for anyone, much less someone new to mass production, to design a completely new vehicle faster than 4 yrs is quite a feat.

This is mostly 100% true - the difference is that Speed pre-announced and put out "estimated" ship dates that were unrealistic - I guess no one on the team   - knows what you know about the Tesla development process.

Many start up 's make that mistake - they don't don't have a solid new product development proccess - I was guilty of that myself early in my career - Again if they hired the right experienced team leader its likely that would not happen - funding aside ...

I don't buy most of the supply chain issue talk, because these parts would normally be on order 20-30 weeks before you go into productin. But you know that from Tesla - they ordered the  special aluminum to build the bodies 3 years in advance (long lead item)

Its more likely engineering changes are happening in real-time as they find bugs in the QA process. Normal start up woes, not always bad, but nearly impossible to forecast a ship date.  Robby is a perfectinist from what I have seen  - he is not going to produce an MvP (minimum viable product) He willleave that to Polaris and others ..  

Speed does feel like and Indie-gogo preject, but I am sure they will get it together and ship a good product FWIWt. 

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

This is mostly 100% true - the difference is that Speed pre-announced and put out "estimated" ship dates that were unrealistic - I guess no one on the team   - knows what you know about the Tesla development process.

Many start up 's make that mistake - they don't don't have a solid new product development proccess - I was guilty of that myself early in my career - Again if they hired the right experienced team leader its likely that would not happen - funding aside ...

I don't buy most of the supply chain issue talk, because these parts would normally be on order 20-30 weeks before you go into productin. But you know that from Tesla - they ordered the  special aluminum to build the bodies 3 years in advance (long lead item)

Its more likely engineering changes are happening in real-time as they find bugs in the QA process. Normal start up woes, not always bad, but nearly impossible to forecast a ship date.  Robby is a perfectinist from what I have seen  - he is not going to produce an MvP (minimum viable product) He willleave that to Polaris and others ..  

Speed does feel like and Indie-gogo preject, but I am sure they will get it together and ship a good product FWIWt. 

I was looking into this whole shortage thing and was surprised to find out it's mostly shipping problems, with the exception of electronics. The American car mfrs misunderstood the Japanese JIT "no excess inventory" as "no inventory" so when covid started and car mfrs canceled orders and online sales of home electronics skyrocketed, the chip mfrs switched over to the more lucrative products. When car sales rebounded far faster than anyone predicted, there was no chip inventory to build car electronics from, so there are huge lots and fields full of new cars missing electronics. One European mfr went back to an analog dash, complete with analog odometer! The only two who kept a stockpile of parts were Toyota and Tesla.

The rest of the stuff is delayed due to shipping problems. We only have 2 ports on the west coast and were ships stacked up for weeks or months waiting to get offloaded. Then the container shortage - all of the containers are piling up here, empty, so no one is shipping them back to Asia, so they don't have enough to keep shipping them here.

Then there is the trucker shortage. Apparently, they identified a shortage of truckers back in 2013 - 600,000 truckers needed and they predicted we'd be short about 1 M truckers by 2020. Well, they were right. Industry experts claim we need 1 M more trucks on the road. The problem is, while trucking wages went up 18% over a 10 yr period, McDonald's wages went up 113%. Plus the long absences suck, etc. I'm just parroting all of this stuff from videos from industry experts.

The common thread was Amazon online sales during the initial home quarantine phase. They went up 48%, which filled up containers with Asian goods for the US, we are a nation of consumers, not producers. The trucking shortage is what jammed up the two ports who couldn't get the containers onto trucks fast enough and the added load of all of those products getting trucked nationwide added to that.

Before covid, I never even anticipated shortages, honestly. I just thought he would call up whoever he normally buys his tube steel from and order X amount of 4130, X amount of DOM, etc and it would show up a week later or whatever and recurring shipments would keep production rolling. But there are thousands of parts involved and any little washer or fitting or electrical plug could hold it all up.

Like you said, you need experienced production people to go into production smoothly and if Robby suffers from anything, it's inexperience in this field and a lot of confidence which can lead one to oversimplify the whole process, which is a lot more complex behind the scenes, including the financial side of it.

 

[Sand Shark]

I have a question maybe y'all can answer as I am wondering. I have seen pics of Robby out running the two seater last year "testing". Then pics of him out running the 4 seater "testing". Is there any pics of Both the cars complete side by side or out running together? Are they just part swapping drivetrain and shocks and etc on different platforms? I am not trying to Bash robbie or anything but I have a lot of friends that have put $$ out waiting for these cars some that have been waiting 1 1/2 so far and still waiting.

The 2 seater was a basically a custom build and was not running actual production parts.  It appeared to be a test mule for what would become some production parts.  Maybe they put some of the production parts on it as they were finalized and build.  I have not see the 2 seater for quite a while.  

The 4 seater was a production car running mostly production parts.  The 4 seater will be the first cars off the production line.  

Depending on what number is on your friend's golden ticket they might see their car this year or some point next year. 

 

[Rampage42]

Are you serious?

He sure has gone to a lot of trouble to design a whole lot of stuff and specify everything down to the exact type of nuts and bolts he's using (far superior to what the competition uses) just to pull off some kind of Ponzi scheme. He'd have to be an idiot to pull off the lowest profit, highest effort Ponzi scheme in history.

It's obvious you're a hater and nothing he could show you would ever change your mind. He apparently recognized that immediately and chose not to indulge you. He doesn't have to show you squat, despite what you *think* you're entitled to.

I can understand being skeptical if we all bought $800 pellet grills from an online seller for $99 who closed his account, but this is quite different.

Robby Gordon is a household name in off road racing and he strikes me as the type who doesn't quit, even if the going gets tough. I'm positive he has the knowledge to design these, I've seen the videos of the CAD drawings, the completed vehicles, the engine dyno testing and many of the production parts.

I have no idea who you are, besides someone who has an internet connection.

So lord of the dunes, I have known Robby and followed this career from the early days, I know who exactly who he is. 
I sure love to read posts where Robby defenders will protect him to no end and call anyone who brings up a valid point to call them haters, I’m far from it. 
A lot of you are sheep, follow Robby no matter what. Enough of the weekly videos and what kind of bolts he’s using, that is seriously your argument?? 
Let’s see a production facility, real dates that they can make?

Where are the 10 pre production units? I noticed you pass on the tough questions and then call me a hater. As I said, I truly hope he pulls this off, they look awesome and would buy one, I along with thousands of others are wanting some real answers. If it’s going to another year, say so, I wouldn’t  be surprised if real production doesn’t start until 2022. This is a huge project and will take years to make happen.

So LOD, I’m not a hater, a potential buyer, I would like to see a production facility, currently, I could care less what kind of bolts he’s using. I hope the love you have for Robby works out. 
I don’t know who you are either but someone with an internet connection and a love of Robby.

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

So lord of the dunes, I have known Robby and followed this career from the early days, I know who exactly who he is. 
I sure love to read posts where Robby defenders will protect him to no end and call anyone who brings up a valid point to call them haters, I’m far from it. 
A lot of you are sheep, follow Robby no matter what. Enough of the weekly videos and what kind of bolts he’s using, that is seriously your argument?? 
Let’s see a production facility, real dates that they can make?

Where are the 10 pre production units? I noticed you pass on the tough questions and then call me a hater. As I said, I truly hope he pulls this off, they look awesome and would buy one, I along with thousands of others are wanting some real answers. If it’s going to another year, say so, I wouldn’t  be surprised if real production doesn’t start until 2022. This is a huge project and will take years to make happen.

So LOD, I’m not a hater, a potential buyer, I would like to see a production facility, currently, I could care less what kind of bolts he’s using. I hope the love you have for Robby works out. 
I don’t know who you are either but someone with an internet connection and a love of Robby.

So you went from calling it a Ponzi scheme to claiming you're a potential buyer.

I don't know whether that's progress, or you can't keep your stories straight. At any rate, I don't have any more answers for you than Robby does. I'm not in any big hurry, I have toys to drive and I figure the longer it takes him to go into production, the more little details he'll try to perfect.

If you're really a potential buyer, I'd recommend buying someone else's spot they're selling, because prices are already going up. 

 

[MWB]

First off I don't have a dog in this, just a casual outside observer.

Second,  I Don't think for a second that Robby ever went into this with the intention to defraud anybody I still think he wouldn't intentionally rip off one person. That being said I do think he is arrogant enough to think he is still going to pull this off and be a hero.

Now if it starts to walk like a duck, quacks like a duck it's a pretty good chance it's going to be a duck. This is starting to look and sound like a duck. I don't think it is, It's just starting to look and sound like one

 If this was any other business venture or any other start up most of the people who had put up money would start to get that feeling of some sort of either a scam or it was going to fail before it even started. 

He needs to get in front of this and give a little more assurance sooner than later. A picture of a empty assembly line waiting to start up would be a good start.  A big empty assembly plant waiting on machines and workers will not invoke confidence.  If he is not showing pictures of the plant the question would be why?