SCOTUS / Rowe Vs Wade / State of our Country

It doesnt end abortion. Allows states to decide. Overwhelming majority of americans support abortion up to 6 weeks (fetal heartbeat). Overwhelming majority of americans also support banning abortion after 6 weeks. 

Me. Take care if it before it becomes life with a heartbeat. After that its murder in my eyes. Its no longer just a womans body. Women have the right to chose when they spread their legs. 

And i dont wanna hear this rape nonsense. You get raped, take care of it. Im done subsidizing the lazy pathetic of our country.

a child is innocent.

Dirtbags can die in a ditch for all i care
Example, so AZ bans Abortion and California doesn't and opens it up to 16 weeks for abortions, what do you think that will do? All these teenagers and such driving to Ca to get abortions, or they will try to abort on their own.  The states need some guidelines, not as simple as let the states decide.

 
Some really well thought out reading here. One thought I sometimes have on "this particular issue", maybe men would be wiser to allow this to be a womans issue to decide.

 
Tough one:  I think there needs to be a few absolutes.........Meaning

Nationwide Carry CCW (that right is already in place for LEO's)

Abortion Rights (similar to what @Sausage450r said)

US Passport / Universal ID issued at birth or when Naturalized... (Must have to vote in any election)

Basic health insurance (same as you have when you retire) your job should have nothing to do with medical care.

I am sure there are more but these basic things SAVE A LOT OF $$$$ for the Citizens in the USA

 
Reports are saying it was sotomayor that leaked it.  If so, she should be removed from the bench.

 
Tough one:  I think there needs to be a few absolutes.........Meaning

Nationwide Carry CCW (that right is already in place for LEO's)

Abortion Rights (similar to what @Sausage450r said)

US Passport / Universal ID issued at birth or when Naturalized... (Must have to vote in any election)

Basic health insurance (same as you have when you retire) your job should have nothing to do with medical care.

I am sure there are more but these basic things SAVE A LOT OF $$$$ for the Citizens in the USA


I agree mostly.

The 2nd amendment covers your first example. 

On the basic health care issue, I'll point out a conversation I had with my daughter about this. We were talking about how the government is inefficient and inept which she agreed with. Then she stated she wanted universal basic healthcare. My response was "who's going to run that?". She just stared back at me with no response. There are other ways of dealing with this.

 
Be careful what you wish for. We are a Republic which gives the states the power to govern and pass laws for their constituency as long as it doesn't infringe on the Constitution. If you allow the Federal Gov the power to institute laws at the local level, it will take away states rights to self govern.

The leaked draft does not indicate a ban on abortion, it indicates that it is a states right to pass laws in regards to abortion. Abortion is not a right granted in the constitution is what I am gleaning from the discussion of what the draft says. Thus, it is a states right to determine how abortion will be handled in their state. But the left will label this a ban on abortion.

Think about all the laws in the states we live in. Would you want these laws to be federalized and binding on half the country that think they are ludicrous? There are bizarre laws on the books in your state and mine that at least half the states would not even imagine instituting. Think about the mess around vaccine mandates. Imagine the Federal government having the power and authority to mandate the jab nationwide, which the Biden admin tried to do but repeatedly was shot down by courts. And so much for my body my choice which only applies to what the Dems/elites decide.

I am not an expert on constitutional law, so this is just an opinion I put out there for discussion.
I agree, there are a lot of ridiculous laws in various states, like you can't walk your peacock backwards on the sidewalk during daylight hours.

It's high time all of the ridiculous state laws get stricken from the books. I'm all for fewer laws, especially federal laws. But what good does it do society if abortion is legal in CA but not in AZ? Women who want abortions will drive from AZ to CA just to get an abortion. So did the AZ law actually do any good? It just forced them to spend an extra $200 (at projected $10/gal for gas) and drive 400 or 500 mi to get an abortion.

I personally think it's a woman's choice if she wants the procedure and the father should have the option to veto it and keep the child if he chooses.

We currently have a system where we have state and federal laws. If the DA loses their case, they can get vindictive and ask the USA to charge you with a federal crime with the same charge. That circumvents the entire "double jeopardy" principle. We should strike the major laws, like murder, abortion, embezzling, etc from the state books and just have more specific laws on  the state or local books, like fishing laws, zoning laws, etc. There's no practical reason to have federal laws governing murder and 50 other versions of the same law in the individual states.

As far as Biden and  the jab, I've maintained all along that he had NO right to mandate any medical procedures on anyone. Even the 4th amendment could be applied to this, since it states, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons," which at the very basic terms means the gov't has no right to use anyone in an experiment against their will. There's a good reason Dr. Mengele was considered a monster. If we had a federal law on the books specifically prohibiting the gov't from such medical experiments or unwanted medical procedures, Biden probably would have been stopped from even bringing it up, much less actually trying it.   

In short, this could be a chance to reduce the number of laws on the states' books by a huge amount. It's not a request for more laws.

 
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Example, so AZ bans Abortion and California doesn't and opens it up to 16 weeks for abortions, what do you think that will do? All these teenagers and such driving to Ca to get abortions, or they will try to abort on their own, or they will be more aware of their choices.  The states need some guidelines, not as simple as let the states decide.
There will be/are guidelines.  It's funny how CA is already saying that residents of other states can do what they want here and the other states have NO right to tell their residents what they can do outside of their home state....unless you are from CA and want to buy a gun in another state............

 
Ethical standards do not remain fixed; they transform in response to evolving situations. Over time, people change, technology advances, and cultural mores (i.e., acquired culture and manners) shift.

Think of Slavery as a simple, recent example.

Life is not black and white, people are excitable, messy and miserable creatures filled with complex emotions unlike any other creature on earth.

You state Technological advance are ok to change laws, how is that different then folks who change their minds on what is socially expectable? It's still folks that create the technology anyways...still have people to blame LOL
What laws should be changed? Do you see a time in the future when murder will be legal? How about libel and defamation of character? Since CNN and MSNBC already make a mockery of the truth, should we just dispense with those laws so people can't sue them for lying?

I'm not going to cover every possible scenario, but I think there are certain fundamental laws (based on the 10 commandments plus some) which should never be deleted. They're based on ethics, morals, fundamental right and wrong. If some unscrupulous banker steals the title to someone's home, to me that's straight up theft. Yet in many states, it happens and the local DA doesn't have any specific law on the books against it. In that case, the law should be added to protect innocent people from losing their houses after paying it off after 30 yrs. 

I agree with you, slavery laws changed and IMHO slavery should have never started, but it was long before my time. Aside from that excellent example, it seems we're now at a point where basic right and wrong has been fairly well codified.

Do you have an example of a current law on the books that you could see getting removed in the future due to changes in societal opinions?

 
@Lord of the Dunes

Healthcare Coverage for Transgender is an issue in some states like Alabama, this case has the potential for laws to change.

https://www.aclu.org/cases/walker-et-al-v-marshall-et-al

Align it up with where Abortion might be heading.....should it be necessary to move to a state that has laws that support your way of life?

It boggles my mind that we let certain basic rights (2nd A) get chipped away at in States like CA over time. It's sad actually. Why should I have to move to a crappy state?

 
@Lord of the Dunes

Healthcare Coverage for Transgender is an issue in some states like Alabama, this case has the potential for laws to change.

https://www.aclu.org/cases/walker-et-al-v-marshall-et-al

Align it up with where Abortion might be heading.....should it be necessary to move to a state that has laws that support your way of life?

It boggles my mind that we let certain basic rights (2nd A) get chipped away at in States like CA over time. It's sad actually. Why should I have to move to a crappy state?
When the gov't starts trying to legislate medical procedures or medical care, it gets really sticky. Personally, I think we should all have the freedom to do as we please, as long as it doesn't affect other people. So I don't think it's any of my business, or anyone else's business (especially the gov't) whether someone wants to change genders, get a boob job or have an abortion. At the same time, I shouldn't be forced to pay for any of it. It's a personal decision and thus a personal expense. As far as trans athletes are concerned, their genetics should determine the gender they should compete in. If they have YY = women's sports, XY = men's sports. That seems pretty simple to me.

Back to the case you mentioned - no state should have those type of laws on the books. That supports my position that most laws should be federal, so people don't get forced to move or go to another state to get the medical assistance they want/need.

 
I agree mostly.

The 2nd amendment covers your first example. 

On the basic health care issue, I'll point out a conversation I had with my daughter about this. We were talking about how the government is inefficient and inept which she agreed with. Then she stated she wanted universal basic healthcare. My response was "who's going to run that?". She just stared back at me with no response. There are other ways of dealing with this.
Absolutely!

I read an article on a cruising forum written by a couple who used to live in San Diego. They had a baby here and it cost $10,000 for prenatal and post natal care. A couple of yrs later, they moved their boat to Ensenada and had a baby there and it cost them only $300 for the same care down there. They said the equipment used in both hospitals were the same, but they felt they got more personalized care in MX since every time they went in for a checkup and for childbirth, they saw the same Dr and nurses. Their theory (and I agree) was that the major difference in cost was the cost of drugs (much higher here), the added cost of malpractice ins. here, and the added cost of HMO fees, which do nothing to provide healthcare. These are all areas where the MX gov't protects it's citizens, but our gov't doesn't. As much as I like to think that the MX gov't is corrupt, the reality is our gov't is probably far more corrupt systemically and allows us to routinely get raped by HMOs, big Pharma and the whole malpractice industry via the lobbyists who actually write the laws.

 
Example, so AZ bans Abortion and California doesn't and opens it up to 16 weeks for abortions, what do you think that will do? All these teenagers and such driving to Ca to get abortions, or they will try to abort on their own.  The states need some guidelines, not as simple as let the states decide.
Stupid people make stupid decisions. If a kid is crossing state lines to get an abortion clearly they’ve proven they are probe to bad decisions and cannot be stopped. California doctors should be in prison if they operate on a minor.

if a teen performs their own abortion or back alley they should be prosecuted for murder

im done with grey area arguments. There is right and wrong. True and false. If a teen acts like an adult they should pay like one

 
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I don't understand your logic here. Shouldn't major laws, like abortion or murder, be the same nationwide? I think one of the major injustices in this world is to see someone get prosecuted for something in one state that is still legal in another state. If the law isn't uniform throughout the land, then it seems pretty arbitrary. In other words, if something is fundamentally wrong, it must be wrong everywhere, not just 5 feet over the state line.
They should. There’s a process for this: Amendments to The Constitution. 

This is not a specifically enumerated power of the federal government, and is therefore not a federal matter. If 2/3rds of the combined States feel it’s something that should be addressed, Amend the constitution.

We’ve gone waaaaaay off the reservation (like the Speed UTV thread :biggrin: ) on allowing The Fed to run over states’ rights. 

As said: SCOTUS is not banning it, merely returning the right to decide this very personal matter to each state. Keep in mind that about 10% want it banned, so most states will have trouble banning it. 

In the end, this is a medical procedure. Nowhere in The Constitution does it specify the States have no say in allowing/disallowing medical procedures. Assisted Suicide comes to mind here, which is a state-decided thing. CA has  all sorts of requirements, but you can abort your 5 month, 30 day fetus without any real consideration other than it’s inconvenient to have a child right now since you never got to go backpacking through Europe

 
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Some really well thought out reading here. One thought I sometimes have on "this particular issue", maybe men would be wiser to allow this to be a womans issue to decide.
So if my wife wants an abortion i have no say if she wants to kill my child?

 
I would be interested in seeing what the video coverage looked like in front of the Supreme Court.  We walked by today as they were protesting and the crowd was pretty small.....  they were there all day though.  We saw them again this afternoon as we were walking by again.  

 
said: SCOTUS is not banning it, merely returning the right to decide this very personal matter to each state. Keep in mind that about 10% want it banned, so most states will have trouble banning it. 
I have read seen this stated in multiple places so I am not sure how much trouble they will have banning it in those states.

"If the Supreme Court does overturn Roe v. Wade, 22 states have laws or constitutional amendments that would take effect immediately or as soon as possible to ban abortion, according to Guttmacher Institute."

 
I have read seen this stated in multiple places so I am not sure how much trouble they will have banning it in those states.

"If the Supreme Court does overturn Roe v. Wade, 22 states have laws or constitutional amendments that would take effect immediately or as soon as possible to ban abortion, according to Guttmacher Institute."
Huh. Well, good for those states I guess. 

 
So if my wife wants an abortion i have no say if she wants to kill my child?


I don't think she should. It takes two to tango, and the law makes the biological father financially liable for that child, whether he's married to her or not. He should have some say in it. I'm not saying a man should be able to force her to have an abortion, but if he does want the child, she should give birth and allow him to raise it if they're not a couple. That's one of the inequities of our system, forcing men to support a woman for 18 yrs just because he got her pregnant. Rarely does it cost as much to raise a kid as women demand for child support. If that money went only to supporting the child, there'd be enough left over for a nice college fund.

 
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