Outfront Gen 5 conversion/upgrades.....the story continues

John@Outfront said:
please do post numbers.  im not a V8 guy but if i had one it would look like yours!
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so far on pump gas 975 hp and 880 tq.  Torque is at 3200 rpm and carries all the way to 6500.  even at 6500 TQ is 830. should be good. going a little race mix once the car is ready. 

 
Video was awesome, and John and his ride are rippin' for sure, even in the vid there's a visible difference in speed vs. everything else.  Definitely looks like a good time.  I need about another decade of seat time, then I'd love to join. 

-TJ

 
Squatcher said:
so far on pump gas 975 hp and 880 tq.  Torque is at 3200 rpm and carries all the way to 6500.  even at 6500 TQ is 830. should be good. going a little race mix once the car is ready. 
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Watching the vid above, you already have way more than you'd be able to use in a course of that configuration effectively.  The low end torque will be a huge boon if you can keep the front down and get it moving you forward, not up... which the Funcos do amazingly well.  I'm impressed with mine that's said to be something like 700 RWHP (though I'd guess a bit lower) as far as putting power down and getting off the corner.  But, anyway, I wouldn't focus too much more on top-end HP and "numbers."  975 HP is already a fug-ton for 91 octane at 440cui...

-TJ

 
I think it should have plenty of power. If it's too much John I'll use the Alumacraft I just bought two. I got to come loaded for bear went up against you. Do I get to try it with both cars?

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I need to see some more of these videos keep them coming!! 

 
Always wanted to see one of these races in person, and compete. Always curious how I would compare to some of you guys, or, if I wouldn't even come close. Looking forward to seeing more posts on your car, John.

 
I got invited once, raced the first one..................never got invited back.  so wierd........haha

 
John@Outfront said:
Re: the video......i cant see it either at the shop but can on my phone

broken parts:  One year i blew 2nd gear on my sequential during the race. any of you who have had  a blown gear know you can double shift and pass right through the gear so from 1st gear i can shift twice into third or down shift twice to get back to first.  the problem was i was not expecting it and it took a few seconds to realize what had happened and which gear to avoid (shift pass)

another time i showed up and my right  rear lower air bag perch bolt was broken very badly.  the bag and perch was basically just sitting in the arm.  that was found after the parade lap.  I had some old bolts back at camp.  we went back and with help of everyone was able to pound out the old bolt and inserter a new one with just the help out there.  yes, that required like 10 guys to lift the car up so arm would hang down while i lined up the holes and pounded in a longer than normal 1/2 bolt, aired it up and then raced

another year:  the next morning after the race was the Funco regatta. I have a unique shifter cable set up that i will show pics of later, any ways there was a single 1/4-20 bolt single shear bolt for a "shifter cable reverser" that broke right when i parked my car for the picture.  realizing after the group foto i would be stranded down there and not be "cool" and drive away like the rest of the cars to take a jump--i asked a stranger to take me back to my camp in his razor, in road runner and got a spare bolt, came back and changed it out while no body knew.  if that had happened in the race 20 hours earlier i dont think i could have won.

there have been some close ones.......................... but luckily never have had a motor issue so i like my motor  builder a lot!😀
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Yep - i figured you'd have some carnage from running that hard - but it's the ability to focus and adjust after you've broken something while racing that separates the participants - what/how you do under pressure/when something goes wrong

 
Here is how John wins the races, or anybody for that matter.

All racers start off even ( pretty much) 

Move yourself up one spot for having a properly set up car ( For SxS's this means 4WD or 2WD as part of that) 

Move yourself up for being willing to do what nobody else is willing to do

Now for the Negatives

Move down one spot for every missed shift

Move down for every time you give it to much gas and the front wheels come up

Move down for every late or early brake zone

Move down two spots for hitting limp mode

Move down three spots for each cone you hit or missed ( Unless your board name rhymes with liver monster then move up 10)

We won't even talk about making the starting line or finish line.

Every person who has raced in one of these event can look back at their race and say yep I finished 5th and here are my spots where I moved down. 

John moves up more than he moves down on the list, That is what makes him so hard to beat. What is really funny is that for the set up he detailed his set up and the people he beat told him either he was going about it wrong or it didn't matter that much.

 
MWB said:
John moves up more than he moves down on the list, That is what makes him so hard to beat. What is really funny is that for the set up he detailed his set up and the people he beat told him either he was going about it wrong or it didn't matter that much.
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I've used the general mantra of he posted in his old Gen 5 thread (move weight forward, but somewhere in the middle of the wheelbase) as much as possible on my last build, as well as other tips I've learned from this board (rear-biased tire inflation being huge).  Most of the guys in camp are pretty much set up fast.  Whenever a new guy joins us, we put him 3rd behind me (I run "cleanup" to keep everything smooth and fun) and every single time that newbie comes over to check out why the F he wasn't able to hang with the 4-banger beam car.  Most don't want to try The Setup because they "just want to wheelie" or don't like how unstable it is.  

As a friend I used to race with would say: loose is fast, don't be a pussy. :biggrin:     

 
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Gas Tank:

I did a few things with my gas tank and mounting.  it is 24 gallons and made out of .125 aluminum

if you notice the fill neck is not mounted or attached to the frame, and is removable, there is an aluminum slip fitting with silicon hose to keep it together.  the neck is not attached to the buggy frame or panels as i have seen a car wrecked so bad that the frame mounted neck was pulled out of the gas tank during a crash, this allows for big fuel to be thrown everywhere in a roll.  it also allows me to change out the gas cap or the position of the fill if i need to in the future.  the base of the tank is not flat but has a 5deg slope to the back.  the fuel sump has the supply, return and one more port for the fuel temp sensor.  Fuel temp can be a compensation value in tuning as well as information to driver that fuel temps arent going through the roof because of location or heat being generated by headers , exhaust or radiator fans.  mine sees none of this sitting right behind the drivers seat.

the seams for the tank are overlapping and not butted for superior strength, and the end caps are bent into shape. this all makes for a very crack resistant tank.  it sits on two pieces of angle iron with some rubber, and SS 1" wide straps keep it in place.  this allows the tank to flex and move a little.

there is a large divider in the tank mounted horizontally. this is a huge advantage namely when the tank is 1/4- to 3/4 full.  i am a very big proponent of keeping the gas isolated in compartments.  if you had 1/2 of tank and hit a big kicker at speed (or a jump) all the fuel will be hitting the top of the tank moments after you get air borne adding extra inertia in the wrong direction.  likewise turning hard right to left and back the fuel all moves to the one side and then the other adding to the sway of the car.  this divider keeps fuel mostly stationary.  This is a new tank for a friend of mine and i will even put another divider for fuel sloshing right to left

also note the use of expanded metal floor.  i love this stuff.  no sand collects into my buggy,  the froor mounted radiator sees more air, and if there was to be a fuel leak it would not run across the floor (i have also heard about a tank leaking, ran across the floor and burned a passenger badly

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always upgrading, today is some electrical.

ATC fuses are only good for 30amps max, even though they make a 40 ATC the contacts are not strong enough.  furthermore i have two high current 16" paddle blade radiator fans that pop 30 amp breakers occasionally on start up.  I have two high flow 12 spal intercooler fans that require 30 amp fuses and a fuel pump that takes 10+ amps. so my fuse block needs to handle a potential of 110 amps at full capacity.  there is no ATC fuse holder that can do that

I found these relays with the 30&87 terminals are the large 3/8" spades and found a super trick 2 gang fuse block that uses the J case fuses.  i will be installing three of these.  1 for the rad fans, 1 for the intercooler fans, 1 for the air ride and fuel pump circuits

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Rockwood said:
What 16” fans are you running?
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30102082. 1876 CFM. They require a 40 amp circuit so I used to use an inline maxi fuse. No ATCb fuse holder can support this fan with any long term use and high duty cycles

 
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John@Outfront said:
30102082. 1876 CFM. They require a 40 amp circuit so I used to use an inline maxi fuse. No ATCb fuse holder can support this fan with any long term use and high duty cycles
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Agree. I’ve melted my fair share of those holders with 30a fuses in them running fans. Fuse was fine, but the whole holder was a melted disaster. Never again for anything larger than a 20a. 

 
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Been running these for fans.

 
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