What warrants a raise?

Realbadlarry said:
Everyone is replaceable... it just takes time. 

Don't ever threaten anyone with YOUR job. 
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I was mostly joking. 

TBH I had made the decision that it was time to leave, and was happy with that decision.  I didn't intend to use leaving as leverage, and didn't play it that way.  I had considered reaching out to some of the Sr. Leadership I've worked closely with over the last ~16 years first, but decided a) like I said I wasn't trying to leverage my resignation b) I *wanted* to leave so I didn't think it was appropriate to reach out to them when I fully intended to just say "no thanks" to anything they offered.  So, I spoke to my direct lead and let him know I was resigning, and willing to work with him on what the timeline and transition of responsibilities would look like.  2 days later the COO called me, and hey, I'm still here.  ;) 

In my particular case, we've been interviewing/trying to replace me for over a year and a half.  And this was by design/my doing... not done behind me back.  I've wanted a change, be it internal or external for some time.  Replacing me has been a blocker to that. 

-TJ

 
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tjZ06 said:
IDK... but I can tell you this, you find out real quick if you are replaceable or not.  It turns out it's a helluva way to get a raise. 

-TJ
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Lol, realized I typoed, well just left a whole part out on this and am past the window to edit.  I meant to say "If you quit you find out real quick..."  I was posting during a work meeting, go figure. 

-TJ

 
tjZ06 said:
IDK... but I can tell you this, you find out real quick if you are replaceable or not.  It turns out it's a helluva way to get a raise. 

-TJ
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That is pretty much where I am at with this guy. I think his rope has stretched far enough. Anyways I am done wasting anymore time on this subject.. Happy Friday!

 
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Low Voltage contracting and engineering back ground Voice/Video/Data/Sound/Intercom/PBX/Burg Alarm/Fire Alarm 90% school based construction.
I've had good and bad employers in regards to pay, as well with trade prevailing wage rules pay was always fluctuating.

Good employers
Started out at a given rate, excelled and was promoted or added work loads with the promotion/work load a pay raise was given.

Bad employers
Started out at a given rate 4-6yrs later no addition to salary no matter how much you excelled or took on extra work.

For the prevailing wages they are set negotiated rates with raises built in at a given date typically 6-months.
With us being non-union but working prevailing wage jobs and in many different counties there is a $15hr swing from one job to the next. The crews never know what to expect except for the minimum agreed rate based on our main county's rate.

Every time I've left a company it was for a bad work environment and not pay. I've taken pay raises and cuts when switching jobs. Not once has an employer ever asked what it would take to keep me, and only one wanted to know why after 8yrs I was moving on. Told them straight up that the owner was the problem by not keeping promises and taking on more work then could be completed without hiring help.

Current job 1yr in and the owner has met every promise plus provided bonuses. No actual $ raise, but now there are talks to becoming a corporate board member. There are many things listed above that have great value beyond the hourly pay scale.

 
Kids these days, don't want to start at the bottom like us olden folk and work their way up!

"Look at me, I got a degree in Liberal Genderfluid Basketweaving, and I should probably run your company!"

:bag:

:simrak:

 
URCLEVER said:
I appreciate all the feedback. I have an employee who has worked for me for over 10 years. He does quality work, but he is just slow. I gave him a promotion to a lead position last year and had to put another team member in his place, as he could not keep up with the production plan. He dilly dallies and spends time not in his work area but came to me for a request for a large raise. I have other guys ready to fill the void, if he leaves. I just feel he does less, doesn't give 100% at all times., works at his own pace and slows others down at times. My issue is I appreciate loyalty. I understand the employee level, always wants more even if they are doing the same. I have full benefits, bonus program and profit sharing so it's not like they do not earn a great living.

Very interesting to see how some on here view their professions.
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I would sit him down and let him know that he does quality work but his production is down the daily dilly dally needs to stop and you have three guys who are willing and able to step into his position. Then give him 25% of what he wants and give 10% to the guys who could take the job if he leaves. 

 
Where I work we have an annual review. We write a few paragraphs about our accomplishments over the year, what our strengths are, and what we need to get better at. We then score ourselves from 1-5 in several categories. You then chose 5 people you work with from various teams and they review you in those same categories and can write comments about your performance. This all goes to your manager who then writes a review and takes these weighted scores into account to give you averaged scores.  How well you do in all of this dictates your pay increase and can lead to a pay cut if you’re slacking. Last step in the process is a 1 on 1 meeting with your manager going over all of this and addressing any discrepancies in how you think you did vs how others and your lead think you did.  Seems to work really well and doing so on an annual basis feels like the correct cadence to asses performance and compensation. 

 
I work for a fortune 200 and they are the cheapest bastards on the face of the planet... the past 4 years have been nothing short of intolerable.  April will mark 30 years here for me and TBH I don't know if I'm gonna last another month. Starting over @ 53 sucks. but sometimes it's a necessary evil

 
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Sorry, trying to be a bit more on topic here...

IMHO use the silicon valley model, make him invested in the success of the business, or at least his business unit.  I don't pretend to understand the complexities of your business, but in a sense it's a production business.  Throughput is important, while maintaining the quality that you have built your name on.  So, I'd go back to him and be very blunt about your concerns.  He needs to refocus, dedicate his work time to productivity, and not distract others.  Let him know if he can do that, you will meet a small portion (let's call it 20%) of his requested raise as pure cash comp, but you will give him the opportunity to meet or exceed the the delta through a bonus structure (you mentioned you already do bonuses and profit sharing, so obv it'd have to jibe with that stuff).  I'm not sure how easy it is to quantify output from the team he's responsible for, but if it's possible, maybe structure something like:

* If you hit current average production, no additional $ (aka, he only gets the cash raise that equates to ~20% of his requested total) 

* From there make a scale that makes sense to you, which tops out with him actually getting 120% of his requested raise.  Again at 0% growth he gets 20% of his request... but let's say for every 2% growth in output for his team he gets 10% additional of his request capping at 120%.  If he grows his team's output by 8% he'll get an additional 40% of his requested total... bringing him to 60% what of what he wanted.  If he grows his section's output by 16% he'll get his full 100%, but if he actually grows his team's output by 20% he'll get 120% of what he requested.  It gives him a chance to actually over-achieve and earn more than what was probably a moon-shot request on his part. 

Obv those are just out my ass numbers... but you get the idea.  20% growth in output for his team might be too easy of a target... or it might be totally unattainable, IDK.  And of course actually quantifying that growth might be way harder than I'm giving credit. 

-TJ

 
tjZ06 said:
Sorry, trying to be a bit more on topic here...

IMHO use the silicon valley model, make him invested in the success of the business, or at least his business unit.  I don't pretend to understand the complexities of your business, but in a sense it's a production business.  Throughput is important, while maintaining the quality that you have built your name on.  So, I'd go back to him and be very blunt about your concerns.  He needs to refocus, dedicate his work time to productivity, and not distract others.  Let him know if he can do that, you will meet a small portion (let's call it 20%) of his requested raise as pure cash comp, but you will give him the opportunity to meet or exceed the the delta through a bonus structure (you mentioned you already do bonuses and profit sharing, so obv it'd have to jibe with that stuff).  I'm not sure how easy it is to quantify output from the team he's responsible for, but if it's possible, maybe structure something like:

* If you hit current average production, no additional $ (aka, he only gets the cash raise that equates to ~20% of his requested total) 

* From there make a scale that makes sense to you, which tops out with him actually getting 120% of his requested raise.  Again at 0% growth he gets 20% of his request... but let's say for every 2% growth in output for his team he gets 10% additional of his request capping at 120%.  If he grows his team's output by 8% he'll get an additional 40% of his requested total... bringing him to 60% what of what he wanted.  If he grows his section's output by 16% he'll get his full 100%, but if he actually grows his team's output by 20% he'll get 120% of what he requested.  It gives him a chance to actually over-achieve and earn more than what was probably a moon-shot request on his part. 

Obv those are just out my ass numbers... but you get the idea.  20% growth in output for his team might be too easy of a target... or it might be totally unattainable, IDK.  And of course actually quantifying that growth might be way harder than I'm giving credit. 

-TJ
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Thank you bro. This guy is just going through a time in his life and expects me to pay for it. I offered him a good raise but not what he wanted. Up to him. I have a guy eager to get in his spot so everything happens for reason. There is a seat for every ass I have been told. 

 
Mac said:
This is not a cut and dry equation.  Performance, attendance, attitude are a good start.

Here is my other list:
- What about increased company profits?  
- increased workload
- increased cost of living, to include long term inflation, gas prices, etc...
- Longevity/annual review increase
- promotion (probably goes with performance, etc...)
- market value increases.  This is a big one.  A lot of smaller companies/startups...start small.  People take chances because they believe in you and what they are doing.  They want to get in on the ground floor and grow.  Sooner or later you have to do a market value increase to add value to the person and to keep those you want to have stick around.  I knew NOTHING about logistics.  I took a very low salary (for me) to get my foot in the door.  I proved myself quickly and was given much more responsibility...then COVID hit.  We laid off half our workforce.  For those that stayed, we all took heavy pay cuts.  I never complained.  We bounced back fast and hard.  I gave it 3 months before I was going to ask to be made "whole" again.  The owner did it before I had a chance to ask.  Shortly there after, I got a big raise on top of it all.

I still feel I make way under what I'm worth (experience, lots of education, work ethic, availability, positive attitude/teamwork) but, I work from home and no one really tells me what to do.  I take time off as I see fit and my boss doesn't question me.  I have a lot of freedom so it's a trade off.  

With all that said, whenever I feel I need a raise, I start updating my resume and change my profile to "Open to work" on LinkedIn.  My boss usually calls me within a few days and says hey, we're giving you a raise... :lol:   I change my LinkedIn profile back and all is well... :lol:   I'm about there again.

I don't envy you in this market.  People suck.  Employers suck.  The media keeps telling everyone they "deserve" more.  Millennials and Zoomers feel they deserve more simply by breathing.  Another issue is there are people looking for work and aggressively apply.  Employers post jobs and then sit on applications and resumes for months.  I do not feel sorry for employers screaming for people.  DO YOUR PART!  Don't post a job unless you are ready to hire.

I could write a second and third volume here...
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tltr;dr…

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2DTldfxcT2/?igsh=N2toOTk4ODRxczZl

 
In my role, I am commission based so raises dont really apply to me. Its a sales role and its very eat what you kill. I have seen young guys come in that think its easy and only last 6 months cause they cant cut it. I noticed that many young folks are not willing to put the work in anymore but that is a whole different thread to start!

This role taught me a lot about to having to grind it our day in and day out to earn that commission check. TBH I do not miss the days of being salary only.

 
Annually 2 to 4 % otherwise your team is making less money due to inflation and you're basically being greedy (your prices should also be rising / you should be making more too every year relatively).  That should be bare minimum even for the worst employees. If your company is having a bad year - tell them why no raise that year and make up for it in other ways.

If they don't deserve that due to performance, then you should be looking to replace them.

Promotions should be every 2 to 4 years depending upon performance with a raise of 10 to 15%...percentage drops as you make more - i.e 10% of a 50k job is only 5k a year and fair for a promo, but at a 150k that's 15k, eventually a promo is in the 5-8ish %.

This is how it seems to play out at large companies at least.

My brother works construction and it's total BS that he has to go and ask for a raise in most cases...that's phycological for some people (not having the guts to ask) - that's why it should be annually without employees needing to ask...we all want and need more and in my opinion you shouldn't have to ask.

 
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I have 2 employees and both share the same last name with me, so I'm biased AF. You've met them.

My son hit me up late last year saying he's been at the same pay rate for the past two years. Cool story bro. What are you doing now that's different from two years ago? Do you have your CDL? Any certificates or new licenses? He had no answer. Earn it fugger. Advance your career through education/schooling or some kind of certificate. Seriously brah.

So I gave him a $5/hour raise to shut him up. Parenting and bossing 101. But that 21 yr old and me are gonna have a talk very soon about rent and utilities. And his company fuel card. Bro, your girlfriend lives 50 miles away. That's my fuel, my tires, my insurance, my alllllll of it. 

 
L.R.S. said:
I have 2 employees and both share the same last name with me, so I'm biased AF. You've met them.

My son hit me up late last year saying he's been at the same pay rate for the past two years. Cool story bro. What are you doing now that's different from two years ago? Do you have your CDL? Any certificates or new licenses? He had no answer. Earn it fugger. Advance your career through education/schooling or some kind of certificate. Seriously brah.

So I gave him a $5/hour raise to shut him up. Parenting and bossing 101. But that 21 yr old and me are gonna have a talk very soon about rent and utilities. And his company fuel card. Bro, your girlfriend lives 50 miles away. That's my fuel, my tires, my insurance, my alllllll of it. 
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Good luck!!! (Family, best and worst employees. Just trying to keep Thanksgiving dinner normal. lol)

 
Update: I got a raise (more like cost of living adjustment) and others got 2 weeks notice.  🙁 

Just keep swimming, just keep swimming 🐟 

I guess I never really answered the OP question. 

"Survive layoffs, take on more workload as departments are downsizing and keep learning the new business coming"

AI is the new employee and it learns fast.

 
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