SXS Weld Porn or Weld Horror?

[FOG]

The criteria was comparing the different brands to each other. You can see what I saw in those pictures. You can judge & rank for yourself if what you see, you like or don’t like? What looks better or worse vs. another. 
 

I have zero credentials or equipment to test the strength quality of a weld. I’m not saying the welds pictured are not going to hold, as I can’t tell that by visual. But I can say many look bad. Many had splatter, more so on the Honda & Kawasaki. Tube fitment on some looked poor, and bubble gum weld was used as filler. This was more prominent on the Japanese SXS and that surprised me. 
 

I’d like to hear your ranking of the SXS pictures on Post #1. Or what 3-4 pictures look the best & worst. 

 

I’m not going to rank your subjective pictures of welds that are cosmetically unappealing to you. 
As others have said and I agree that an ugly weld to the untrained eye is not necessarily a low quality weld. Yet your ranking put the prettier welds as the higher quality welds. 
Instead of making my decisions on cosmetics that some mistake as quality, I look at proven reliability and performance and other criteria. 

BTW, the entire Honda Talon crossed the recent Baja 500 finish line first in class, not just the transmission. 

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

Guess who owns a Honda Talon...

 

[DTA]

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[Fullthrottleguy]

Buggies aren’t mass produced and cost a little more though. 

What’s always fun is to look at seat and accessory tabs on buggies. Usually where the sin lives. Lol

I aways find its the last stuff that goes on to get it out the door on Buggies  - we all get "anxious" to get them done.  Also the "pro's don't always do all the grunt work on tabs etc.

All the SXS's and mass produced cars suffer from the speed at which they are done  - NONE of the robotic welds look good on these cars nor on my Wife's Charger, in fact some are downright scary  - I guarantee the same will be true of Speed If/when they get into real production.  Its not that you cannot make robotic welds pretty, but generally they will be 10x slower and require more maintenance on the equipment.

Time and material science plays in heavily if you want to make a profit and stay in business

 

[Rockwood]

I aways find its the last stuff that goes on to get it out the door on Buggies  - we all get "anxious" to get them done.  Also the "pro's don't always do all the grunt work on tabs etc.

All the SXS's and mass produced cars suffer from the speed at which they are done  - NONE of the robotic welds look good on these cars nor on my Wife's Charger, in fact some are downright scary  - I guarantee the same will be true of Speed If/when they get into real production.  Its not that you cannot make robotic welds pretty, but generally they will be 10x slower and require more maintenance on the equipment.

Time and material science plays in heavily if you want to make a profit and stay in business

Yep, or they're the chit the owner threw on after he got the rolling chassis.

Pretty robo welds: yeah.  I think at the production rate Speed is looking at, not a problem for time, but that's still going to add cost.  Today's consumer sadly doesn't care about quality, just the financing terms and if it works (for now).  3-4 years down the road?  "Someone ese's problem"...

 

[FOG]

Does it really add to the thread when someone is comparing the welds of OEM UTVs and another comes in to prove a point using  the finishing position of a ~$125k factory backed racecar?

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My comment on the Honda Talon Baja 500 win was to this statement that the OP made in this thread. “Take away the trans and the Honda offers nothing worth buying imo.”

That statement went beyond welds IMO. 

 

[DTA]

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[Lord of the Dunes]

My comment on the Honda Talon Baja 500 win was to this statement that the OP made in this thread. “Take away the trans and the Honda offers nothing worth buying imo.”

That statement went beyond welds IMO. 

That statement was in reference to a factory Talon. You are talking about a hand built race vehicle.

What exactly does the Talon have that's better or different than the other brands? More power? No. Better suspension? No. Better chassis triangulation? No. DCT trans? Yes.

Am I missing anything? Is there anything else the Honda has to offer?

I'm not hating on the Honda, just being curious. 

 

[FOG]

That statement was in reference to a factory Talon. You are talking about a hand built race vehicle.

What exactly does the Talon have that's better or different than the other brands? More power? No. Better suspension? No. Better chassis triangulation? No. DCT trans? Yes.

Am I missing anything? Is there anything else the Honda has to offer?

I'm not hating on the Honda, just being curious. 

I haven’t seen a Honda Talon break a belt. 

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

I haven’t seen a Honda Talon break a belt. 

Speaking logically, it doesn't have one, so it's impossible to do so. In other words, the DCT is it's main selling point.

That sounds the same as what NIKAL posted.

As a few of us have said, the DCT would be a major part of any dream UTV, it's a great transmission. If Honda had put out a factory 200hp turbo engine from the beginning, they probably could have seriously stolen a bunch of customers from Polaris and CanAm, since most people don't look past the hp numbers.   

 

[NIKAL]

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[FOG]

Speaking logically, it doesn't have one, so it's impossible to do so. In other words, the DCT is it's main selling point.

That sounds the same as what NIKAL posted.

As a few of us have said, the DCT would be a major part of any dream UTV, it's a great transmission. If Honda had put out a factory 200hp turbo engine from the beginning, they probably could have seriously stolen a bunch of customers from Polaris and CanAm, since most people don't look past the hp numbers.   

Nikal did not say that the DCT was the the main selling point he said, “Take away the trans and the Honda offers nothing worth buying imo.” That’s not the same. 

I was trying to add a little humor by saying that the entire Honda Talon crossed the finish line not just the transmission. I guess it hit a sore spot with you and a few others. 

 

[FOG]

Fog, I did say that and I apologize as this was a thread about manufacture welds and I gave my opinion on something other then that. 
 

Each brand and model has it’s good points and niche where it will excel over another model. What works for one person might not for another.

Id like to keep this discussion on topic and civil. If this topic has been discussed enough, someone can start a new SXS topic thread to discuss. Maybe a top 3 things liked about a particular model? 

I appreciate your apology and agree with your comment on what works for one might not work for another.
I posted the above at the same time that you posted this. I will not make any comments in this thread unless they pertain to welds. 

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

Nikal did not say that the DCT was the the main selling point he said, “Take away the trans and the Honda offers nothing worth buying imo.” That’s not the same. 

I was trying to add a little humor by saying that the entire Honda Talon crossed the finish line not just the transmission. I guess it hit a sore spot with you and a few others. 

I have no feelings about the Talon, one way or another. When it first came out I heard it had a DCT and that's about it. I don't recall anyone raving about the power or any other aspect of it. 

You certainly got defensive when it was discussed in this thread. I understand, a lot of people defend their purchases. Most of them do it from an emotional standpoint, rather than any actual technical reason.

Is it popular? Have they sold a lot of them?

 

[FOG]

I have no feelings about the Talon, one way or another. When it first came out I heard it had a DCT and that's about it. I don't recall anyone raving about the power or any other aspect of it. 

You certainly got defensive when it was discussed in this thread. I understand, a lot of people defend their purchases. Most of them do it from an emotional standpoint, rather than any actual technical reason.

Is it popular? Have they sold a lot of them?

The Speed UTV welds appear to be very attractive. 

 

[JBL]

The Speed UTV welds appear to be very attractive. 

For the time being....RG heads home and who knows what may happen after.

 

[Kat-A-Tonic]

I thought the frames were welded in the US.  Shipping those would be expensive.  He showed the robot welding long before the China trip I thought.

 

[Lord of the Dunes]

I thought the frames were welded in the US.  Shipping those would be expensive.  He showed the robot welding long before the China trip I thought.

I thought the same thing on both counts. I can't imagine how much shipping costs for all of those parts. The chassis is pretty bulky, I imagine they could pack the suspension and other parts inside of the chassis, but they can't stuff too many of those in a shipping container. I'm guessing he's gotta be saving a lot of money on materials and welding by doing it over there.

Between inflation and rising shipping costs, this really is a bad time to be in the mfg business.

 

[1tonfun]

Speaking logically, it doesn't have one, so it's impossible to do so. In other words, the DCT is it's main selling point.

That sounds the same as what NIKAL posted.

As a few of us have said, the DCT would be a major part of any dream UTV, it's a great transmission. If Honda had put out a factory 200hp turbo engine from the beginning, they probably could have seriously stolen a bunch of customers from Polaris and CanAm, since most people don't look past the hp numbers.   

When I was looking at SXS's a couple of years ago, the lack of a factory turbo kept me from purchasing the Talon. Ended up with a Polaris until the Speed arrives.

 

[1tonfun]

Kind of like give me a Chevy with an Allison, a Cummins and a straight axle of a Ford and I would be one happy camper.

A know a lot of guys that would love that set up or something along those lines