Subaru timing belt slipped

[Jammer75]

I would also thoroughly check the pins on the connector that plugs into the ECM, especially at the crimped part of the pins, and also check that none of the wires are broken internally (inside the insulation) You can check this by carefully holding the wire with needle nose pliers and pulling on the wire to see if it stretches.  If it does the internal conductor is compromised and needs to be repaired.

Ecu. Cleaned with soft brush and contact cleaner. See pic. Checked continuity through solder joint and plug on ecu. Checked continuity on male plug and all connections. Replaced relays(needed it regardless). Getting exact same results. I think the tell tale is the fan comes on immediately. I will start checking wires although unless I see something obvious I’m in the dark. 
@John@outfront said to. check the two main ground wires from ecu. I’ll check schematic and see what I can find. 

I did clean the magnetic crap off both cam/crank sensors and no improvement. Not sure how to test them past that. 
 

appreciate everyone’s help. 

 

[Jammer75]

Also read this post and the following is the complete thread.

BJ_buggyfab

Need help with a Subaru motor

I will try this as it’s quick to do although with the fan coming on immediately when keyed on tells me something electrical is going on and I don’t have the alternator hooked up so can’t be that. 

 

[HTElectrical]

Those pins look fine to me.

 

[HTElectrical]

How are your fans triggered to turn on are you using a temperature sensor on the Block then activates a relay to turn them on?

 

[Jammer75]

How are your fans triggered to turn on are you using a temperature sensor on the Block then activates a relay to turn them on?

Yes. I believe that when temp sensor on block hits 180° The ecu then would trigger the fan relay for the fan to come on (normally that was when the fan kicked on).  The fan comes on immediately when keyed and the gauge is all the way cold…

 

[HTElectrical]

Check your temperature sending unit, and see if it is currently closed.  If it isn't then check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

 

[John@Outfront]

Check your temperature sending unit, and see if it is currently closed.  If it isn't then check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

The ecu temp sensor is a thermistor so it’s never open or. Closed. It’s simply a different resistance. The ecu is programmed then to turn fan on at any temp. 

 

[HTElectrical]

That is correct.  John, do you know what the value is at 180 degrees?  How many ohms?

You can do this step first, and if you get continuity to Gnd  then you know the problem is the ECM.

Check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

The ecu temp sensor is a thermistor so it’s never open or. Closed. It’s simply a different resistance. The ecu is programmed then to turn fan on at any temp. 

 

[Jammer75]

That is correct.  John, do you know what the value is at 180 degrees?  How many ohms?

You can do this step first, and if you get continuity to Gnd  then you know the problem is the ECM.

Check to see if the pin from the ECM has continuity to ground or if using a test light touch one side to 12v, and the other to the fan pin.  What did you find?

I have (see pic)multi meter. I put one probe into fan pin and then other probe onto a constant 12v source— I can go fan pin to + on battery(ecu plugged in)? Or ignition on and to a 12v source?

thanks thanks

 

[John@Outfront]

I have (see pic)multi meter. I put one probe into fan pin and then other probe onto a constant 12v source— I can go fan pin to + on battery(ecu plugged in)? Or ignition on and to a 12v source?

thanks thanks

View attachment 22789

That above doesn’t make sense to me. The coolant sensor has a common signal ground to it. Same as each cam and crank sensor as well as the tps. Then goes through the coolant sensor and returns a value to ecu in s dedicated coolant temp wire. This wire should be checked for being open or shorted to ground   This test should be done with ecu disconnected 

 

[HTElectrical]

To troubleshoot the fan being constantly on, if the ecm is powered up, and no signal to E. Temp pin (this will eliminate the possibility of the engine temp sensor being bad) then under normal operation there should be no continuity between Fan Pin and Sig Gnd correct John?

Or 0 volts reading between Fan Pin and 12v.  Correct John?

 

[John@Outfront]

typically if e-temp connector was pulled off the sensor so there was no signal getting to the e-temp wire the temp would go full cold and choke would be on.  if the e-temp wire was grounded it would turn on the fan as it would think motor is full hot

the e-temp wire cannot be tested to the fan output wire like you are suggesting.  simply when the e-temp wire sees a particular resistance (this value is programmed by the tuner) then it applies a ground at the fan output wire that in turn turns on the fan relay

 

[Jammer75]

typically if e-temp connector was pulled off the sensor so there was no signal getting to the e-temp wire the temp would go full cold and choke would be on.  if the e-temp wire was grounded it would turn on the fan as it would think motor is full hot

the e-temp wire cannot be tested to the fan output wire like you are suggesting.  simply when the e-temp wire sees a particular resistance (this value is programmed by the tuner) then it applies a ground at the fan output wire that in turn turns on the fan relay

John- I'm still unraveling the rats nest that is my wiring to check the 2 ground wires from ecu to block, then cleaning fuel filters, checking fuel psi, checking spark and see where I'm at. 

After that I'll jump back into fan problem.  

HTElectrical helped put a lot in perspective as well..thanks

I'll post updates

 

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

For all of you losing sleep if my car is fixed, it's purring like a fat chick with a family size bucket.

 

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

@Jammer75Do you have a laptop? If so, load the ECU software and plug into your computer, it'll tell you what all your sensors are doing, and if it sees cam and crank when you're trying to start the motor. If you can't, start with old school troubleshooting. You had wet plugs so probably not fuel pressure. Does the fuel pump run when you first turn on the key? Do you hear fuel going back into the tank from the return line?

You know your cam and crank are timed correctly. So it's on to spark next. Check to see if all 4 plugs are sparking. Do you have COP or a coil pack? 

For the fans, my money is on a stuck relay. I have to swap both my fan relays about every 4 years. I run 40A relays and they still don't last. Lots of new parts are junk these days.

Note: In your wiring nest...I would figure out what each relay does and label it. Then find out what every fuse does and label that. Carry a few spare relays and a fuse kit. You might need that info in the middle of the dunes at midnight sometime.

 

[Jammer75]

@Jammer75Do you have a laptop? If so, load the ECU software and plug into your computer, it'll tell you what all your sensors are doing, and if it sees cam and crank when you're trying to start the motor. If you can't, start with old school troubleshooting. You had wet plugs so probably not fuel pressure. Does the fuel pump run when you first turn on the key? Do you hear fuel going back into the tank from the return line?

You know your cam and crank are timed correctly. So it's on to spark next. Check to see if all 4 plugs are sparking. Do you have COP or a coil pack? 

For the fans, my money is on a stuck relay. I have to swap both my fan relays about every 4 years. I run 40A relays and they still don't last. Lots of new parts are junk these days.

Note: In your wiring nest...I would figure out what each relay does and label it. Then find out what every fuse does and label that. Carry a few spare relays and a fuse kit. You might need that info in the middle of the dunes at midnight sometime.

First how do I tag someone like you did me???

I have a laptop and the program installed and every time I've tried to hook it up, the laptop wont see/find the link system...

yes fuel pump runs +/- 5 secs on key on

i will check if I can hear fuel returning--check for only when energized? or after the pump has stopped as well?

I will check spark  - I have cop (Coil Over Pack) I believe

I replaced all the relays - I have 7 of them (3 labeled are fan, ecu and fuel pump) (other 4 are unknown- i think 1 is lights 1 is whips and 2 that are just there?

My plan was to do this project over summer(as I never had an electrical issue till now and took care of all other items)- but I'm doing it now--LOL

Thanks and I'll update on what I find

 

[Turbo_Manx_Maniac]

Type the @ sign and their name, you'll see it or some like it pop up. Click the one you want.

First how do I tag someone like you did me???

I have a laptop and the program installed and every time I've tried to hook it up, the laptop wont see/find the link system...

yes fuel pump runs +/- 5 secs on key on

i will check if I can hear fuel returning--check for only when energized? or after the pump has stopped as well?

I will check spark  - I have cop (Coil Over Pack) I believe

I replaced all the relays - I have 7 of them (3 labeled are fan, ecu and fuel pump) (other 4 are unknown- i think 1 is lights 1 is whips and 2 that are just there?

My plan was to do this project over summer(as I never had an electrical issue till now and took care of all other items)- but I'm doing it now--LOL

Thanks and I'll update on what I find

To tag, type in the @ character (shift 2) and the name of the person you want to tag right after the @ sign. It will pop up a name or list and you click which one you want. 

You'll only hear fuel on the return when the pump is on.

BTW, if you pull the fan relays, the fan(s) don't run anymore right? Might want to invest in some relay sockets when you clean up the wiring, makes swapping relays a breeze. With loose wires, its easy to miss-wire in the heat of battle. Amazon.com: 10 Pack - Bosch Style 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Interlocking Relay Socket Harness Base (with Wires) : Automotive

To help with the computer program, does your laptop have a serial port, or a USB to serial adapter? In either case you have to find out what serial port is being used by your laptop. Go to control panel, and find device manager. In device manager, click "Ports (COM & LPT). It will show you all the COM ports on your laptop. Write them down and try each one in your tuning program. If none of them work, you might need a null modem cable, get it from Amazon in whatever sex you need. In California, all our cables are non-gender, you can plug whatever you want into them and they will promptly try and cancel you.  . Amazon.com: StarTech.com 10' RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable - Null modem cable - DB-9 (F) to DB-9 (F) - 10 ft - SCNM9FF,Gray : Electronics

Good luck! 

 

[Jammer75]

Type the @ sign and their name, you'll see it or some like it pop up. Click the one you want.

To tag, type in the @ character (shift 2) and the name of the person you want to tag right after the @ sign. It will pop up a name or list and you click which one you want. 

You'll only hear fuel on the return when the pump is on.

BTW, if you pull the fan relays, the fan(s) don't run anymore right? Might want to invest in some relay sockets when you clean up the wiring, makes swapping relays a breeze. With loose wires, its easy to miss-wire in the heat of battle. Amazon.com: 10 Pack - Bosch Style 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Interlocking Relay Socket Harness Base (with Wires) : Automotive

To help with the computer program, does your laptop have a serial port, or a USB to serial adapter? In either case you have to find out what serial port is being used by your laptop. Go to control panel, and find device manager. In device manager, click "Ports (COM & LPT). It will show you all the COM ports on your laptop. Write them down and try each one in your tuning program. If none of them work, you might need a null modem cable, get it from Amazon in whatever sex you need. In California, all our cables are non-gender, you can plug whatever you want into them and they will promptly try and cancel you.  . Amazon.com: StarTech.com 10' RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable - Null modem cable - DB-9 (F) to DB-9 (F) - 10 ft - SCNM9FF,Gray : Electronics

Good luck! 

Thanks for everything and I’ll try all options. As far as the fuel return the pump, it is real close to the tank and is noisy. Would it make sense to disconnect the return fuel line and see if I get pressure squirting out when I do key on the ignition for the fuel pump?

 

[Jammer75]

Type the @ sign and their name, you'll see it or some like it pop up. Click the one you want.

To tag, type in the @ character (shift 2) and the name of the person you want to tag right after the @ sign. It will pop up a name or list and you click which one you want. 

You'll only hear fuel on the return when the pump is on.

BTW, if you pull the fan relays, the fan(s) don't run anymore right? Might want to invest in some relay sockets when you clean up the wiring, makes swapping relays a breeze. With loose wires, its easy to miss-wire in the heat of battle. Amazon.com: 10 Pack - Bosch Style 12V DC 5-PIN SPDT Interlocking Relay Socket Harness Base (with Wires) : Automotive

To help with the computer program, does your laptop have a serial port, or a USB to serial adapter? In either case you have to find out what serial port is being used by your laptop. Go to control panel, and find device manager. In device manager, click "Ports (COM & LPT). It will show you all the COM ports on your laptop. Write them down and try each one in your tuning program. If none of them work, you might need a null modem cable, get it from Amazon in whatever sex you need. In California, all our cables are non-gender, you can plug whatever you want into them and they will promptly try and cancel you.  . Amazon.com: StarTech.com 10' RS232 Serial Null Modem Cable - Null modem cable - DB-9 (F) to DB-9 (F) - 10 ft - SCNM9FF,Gray : Electronics

Good luck! 

Thanks for everything and I’ll try all options. 
 

fuel pump looking into gas tank as far as I can tell there is gas flowing back into tank when fuel pump is running….
 

 

[Jammer75]

IMG_0503.MOV

Ok. 
fuel pump appears to be returning fuel to tank. 
haven’t checked psi. Yet will get a gauge in the morning. 


getting spark on all 4 plugs 

compression check in order of checking them

cyl#3 140

cyl#1 130

cyl#4 120

cyl#2 90 (when running sounded like this valve has been ticking)

P ground wire from ecu runs by itself to ground on block

s ground wire runs to block but has other wires attached to it near ecu. See pic. 
 

cylinders 1 & 2 are just dumping fuel. 
 

I will have to do fuel psi. Check and see if I can hook up laptop tomorrow.