Speed UTV

oh dang TAPP not getting paid, those guys and PUSH were thick as thieves during R&D
who's next the arrington engine developer, PUSH turbo

I thought is was odd that some of the main guys during R&D have up and vanished. Tony, Daniel, etc...
 
ROBERT L said:
I wonder how long Speed will stay in business? Or is this standard operating procedures for RG? Why didn’t any of his other joint ventures work out. I really do hope he’s successful. I want one bad but that small voice in my head is Yelling don’t do it.
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Don't do it...

From where I sit, this will be the next Delorian.

Speed has to be the worst run business ever? 🤷‍♂️
 
Dune-Track-N said:
oh dang TAPP not getting paid, those guys and PUSH were thick as thieves during R&D
who's next the arrington engine developer, PUSH turbo

I thought is was odd that some of the main guys during R&D have up and vanished. Tony, Daniel, etc...
Click to expand...
Tony Cola is still around and working out of the Arrington engine shop, which RG bought & owns.

But yes lots have come & gone. Which is not really surprising. Speed was done designing the car and if they were successful the next design was a few years out at best. Meanwhile Daniel is not designing but doing ECU reflashes and customer service. He had to move on to build his career. The guys working out of NC, most stayed in NC and found other jobs as they were not interested in moving out west. If Speed was growing then people stick around as your working on the next thing.

Unfortunately for Speed right now they are in survival mode, and they’re not doing a very good job at that. I believe the “I know it all” attitude, and the “try and keep it lean staff wise” vs spending money and bring in the people that know how to do this, is becoming very clear. Everything RG has done has always been with minimal staff. Sometimes it’s commendable, but in this case, this venture is way bigger than any race team, fab shop, energy drink, or selling hay.

Early on before Speed UTV got the bad rep they have now, they should have poached a couple people from the Powersports industry. And went looking for CEO who has run a company that did large scale manufacturing. It might have been hard to get the CEO from John Deere, when your a new start up company, but if you entice them with some stock ownership, you might get a high level 2nd tier guy or a guy hungry to prove he can build a company at the ground level.

Kinda like Shark Tank. The people on there are willing to give up equity knowing that on their own they might make it and do ok, but with bringing in experienced talent they can make 4 times as much with less equity in the company. That’s what Speed should have done. I don’t see a road map to success at this point. RG & TR have made way to many mistakes, and now not giving people their money back, getting sued by supplier partners and freight carriers. I just don’t think they make it, and I think allot of people will lose allot of money. Who knows if a State Attorney starts investigating, they might find state & federal criminal charges.
 
NIKAL said:
Tony Cola is still around and working out of the Arrington engine shop, which RG bought & owns.

But yes lots have come & gone. Which is not really surprising. Speed was done designing the car and if they were successful the next design was a few years out at best. Meanwhile Daniel is not designing but doing ECU reflashes and customer service. He had to move on to build his career. The guys working out of NC, most stayed in NC and found other jobs as they were not interested in moving out west. If Speed was growing then people stick around as your working on the next thing.

Unfortunately for Speed right now they are in survival mode, and they’re not doing a very good job at that. I believe the “I know it all” attitude, and the “try and keep it lean staff wise” vs spending money and bring in the people that know how to do this, is becoming very clear. Everything RG has done has always been with minimal staff. Sometimes it’s commendable, but in this case, this venture is way bigger than any race team, fab shop, energy drink, or selling hay.

Early on before Speed UTV got the bad rep they have now, they should have poached a couple people from the Powersports industry. And went looking for CEO who has run a company that did large scale manufacturing. It might have been hard to get the CEO from John Deere, when your a new start up company, but if you entice them with some stock ownership, you might get a high level 2nd tier guy or a guy hungry to prove he can build a company at the ground level.

Kinda like Shark Tank. The people on there are willing to give up equity knowing that on their own they might make it and do ok, but with bringing in experienced talent they can make 4 times as much with less equity in the company. That’s what Speed should have done. I don’t see a road map to success at this point. RG & TR have made way to many mistakes, and now not giving people their money back, getting sued by supplier partners and freight carriers. I just don’t think they make it, and I think allot of people will lose allot of money. Who knows if a State Attorney starts investigating, they might find state & federal criminal charges.
Click to expand...
Let's just say there are rumors of AGM, Push, and Emtron following TAPP in lawsuits. Something about speed making Chinese copies of there products even through they advertised as coming with the real product.
 
NIKAL said:
Unfortunately for Speed right now they are in survival mode, and they’re not doing a very good job at that. I believe the “I know it all” attitude, and the “try and keep it lean staff wise” vs spending money and bring in the people that know how to do this, is becoming very clear. Everything RG has done has always been with minimal staff. Sometimes it’s commendable, but in this case, this venture is way bigger than any race team, fab shop, energy drink, or selling hay.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you are now seeing what most people saw 3 years ago, the writing was on the wall. Its just like being a fan of any sports team, we have rose colored glasses on most of the time :cool:
 
D_knotts said:
Let's just say there are rumors of AGM, Push, and Emtron following TAPP in lawsuits. Something about speed making Chinese copies of there products even through they advertised as coming with the real product.
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The IP theft in China is terrible. If you send something there to be manufactured and don't make efforts to safeguard your process, you'll find identical copies of your product in no time flat.
 
SLIM said:
Sounds like you are now seeing what most people saw 3 years ago, the writing was on the wall. Its just like being a fan of any sports team, we have rose colored glasses on most of the time :cool:
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I’ve always been very optimistic, but also very factual. Those who were bashing this 3 years ago had zero facts and were just spewing made up lies just to cause trouble. Most had zero credible information or had never once spoke or knew RG or TR. They were just acting as an internet gang mob mentality where it was fun to pick on others. In most cases what most were claiming was proven false. I’ve spoke to a few of these “Trolls” face to face, it’s amazing how they act when not on the internet or have their little gang teaming up behind them.

I’m still 1000% confident this project/company was started with 100% good intentions, and on paper looked to be much easier to pull off. Even RG point blank said this was the hardest thing he’s ever done, and would not have done it, had he known. Most were saying this was a RG money grab, pyramid scheme. I don’t for one minute believe they went into this looking to con people of their money. RG has way more to lose than $10 million in deposits. The development of this car alone cost more than that. They have manufacturing & partner contracts that are more than that, they are responsible to pay for.

Like I said I think they thought they could design a vehicle and their CM would built it and they would hand to dealers to sell it. I don’t think the people behind Speed understood the foundation needed to make all the behind the scenes stuff work. Things like working with a CM, is more than them just building the product for you. The USA side of the infrastructure is what fell apart. Why did Speed or Hisun agree to FOB terms on when Speed takes possession of the product? Speed should have used Hisun as a partner not a contractor. Let Hisun bring the product into the USA. Let Hisun’s USA office in Texas help & navigate the distribution, dealer support, parts stocking and network integration, at least for the first few years. Maybe even Speed sets up shop in a few open offices in Hisun TX, or in an office building a block away in Texas? Yes this would add substantial costs and less revenue for Speed. But you need to look big picture and I believe that’s where this started unraveling.

No way anyone 3 years ago could say exactly where the holes in the system were. Everyone just kept saying they will not build a car, they don’t have a factory, no cars will never be delivered. Etc.. None of that was true. They have done it, but it’s been a struggle as they did not have the knowledge and refused to hire the right people who knew how and could execute those areas of expertise needed to succeed. Plus Al this would have allowed RG & TR to do so much more, and not force this to be 100% on their shoulders and taking 24/7 from their lives.

TR told me point blank they had no idea the legal process needed to declare a country or origin. This was why cars have struggled to get through customs. A few months ago after shipments were seized, did they hire a specialty attorney in New York that does this exact thing for companies building a product outside of the U.S., where components are sourced from dozens of other countries.

Speed thought they could run a buisness on a manufacturing license, which they could have, if they were not selling the cars direct. Without dealers, they become the dealer. They had to get a dealers license to sell direct out of their showrooms. Remember originally you would take delivery via a dealer near you.

When it came to dealers they signed a bunch of dealers, but never built the structure each dealer needs to get, sell & service the product. Again Speed did not know what it takes to do all that. They still don’t and that’s why dealers are out. No infrastructure to support dealers.
 
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No one had any facts 3 years ago. There were some that straight hated, some who used Robby and Todd's statements as proof, and some who looked at the progress, supply line, and everything else, and thought there was no way these went to meaningful production numbers anytime soon.

And they still haven't.

There was a bunch of other stuff in there where RG was "comparing" his to the competition, but KOH and Baja have shown that the overall package still belongs to the other 2 vehicles.
 
Rockwood said:
No one had any facts 3 years ago. There were some that straight hated, some who used Robby and Todd's statements as proof, and some who looked at the progress, supply line, and everything else, and thought there was no way these went to meaningful production numbers anytime soon.

And they still haven't.

There was a bunch of other stuff in there where RG was "comparing" his to the competition, but KOH and Baja have shown that the overall package still belongs to the other 2 vehicles.
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“Most” did not have any facts 3 years ago. I had facts that were given to me by Speed, and at the time were factual. Unfortunately thing change as nothing is for sure, especially as mistakes are made along the way.

We can only hope Speed’s story turns out like Polaris's. I did a really cool history time line of Polaris & Arctic Cat. Polaris had a much rougher start than what Speed is going through now. So anything is possible and could get better.
 
I've been in the automotive business my entire working career.

I've worked for Lincoln-Mercury, Saab, Lexus, Toyota, BMW, Bentley and Rolls Royce.

I've seen countless cars come to market and I've been involved in production line logistics.

It normally takes 7 years minimum for an established manufacturer (Ford, Chebby, whoever) to take a vehicle from paper to prime time consumer production.

These are rock solid facts.

For Speed to pop off and say they were going to be making deliveries in just TWO YEARS? Was a laughable statement at best!

Now we are five/six years out?

All of us so called "haters" saw the writing on the wall on Day One.

My only hope is, that everyone that has money involved, is made whole.

😞
 
NIKAL said:
“Most” did not have any facts 3 years ago. I had facts that were given to me by Speed, and at the time were factual. Unfortunately thing change as nothing is for sure, especially as mistakes are made along the way.

We can only hope Speed’s story turns out like Polaris's. I did a really cool history time line of Polaris & Arctic Cat. Polaris had a much rougher start than what Speed is going through now. So anything is possible and could get better.
Click to expand...

And I’m saying Speed was either lying to you.

Or they had no clue what they were doing.

What Speed is delivering now barely qualifies as first release from a product maturity standpoint. The proof is in the shitshow pudding we all see in front of us, plain as day.

I was in a product survey for either the Pro R or the Maverick R in 2017 (it was entirely about baseline design direction). That’s how far out these take to develop.
 
NIKAL said:
I’ve always been very optimistic, but also very factual. Those who were bashing this 3 years ago had zero facts and were just spewing made up lies just to cause trouble. Most had zero credible information or had never once spoke or knew RG or TR. They were just acting as an internet gang mob mentality where it was fun to pick on others. In most cases what most were claiming was proven false. I’ve spoke to a few of these “Trolls” face to face, it’s amazing how they act when not on the internet or have their little gang teaming up behind them.

I’m still 1000% confident this project/company was started with 100% good intentions, and on paper looked to be much easier to pull off. Even RG point blank said this was the hardest thing he’s ever done, and would not have done it, had he known. Most were saying this was a RG money grab, pyramid scheme. I don’t for one minute believe they went into this looking to con people of their money. RG has way more to lose than $10 million in deposits. The development of this car alone cost more than that. They have manufacturing & partner contracts that are more than that, they are responsible to pay for.

Like I said I think they thought they could design a vehicle and their CM would built it and they would hand to dealers to sell it. I don’t think the people behind Speed understood the foundation needed to make all the behind the scenes stuff work. Things like working with a CM, is more than them just building the product for you. The USA side of the infrastructure is what fell apart. Why did Speed or Hisun agree to FOB terms on when Speed takes possession of the product? Speed should have used Hisun as a partner not a contractor. Let Hisun bring the product into the USA. Let Hisun’s USA office in Texas help & navigate the distribution, dealer support, parts stocking and network integration, at least for the first few years. Maybe even Speed sets up shop in a few open offices in Hisun TX, or in an office building a block away in Texas? Yes this would add substantial costs and less revenue for Speed. But you need to look big picture and I believe that’s where this started unraveling.

No way anyone 3 years ago could say exactly where the holes in the system were. Everyone just kept saying they will not build a car, they don’t have a factory, no cars will never be delivered. Etc.. None of that was true. They have done it, but it’s been a struggle as they did not have the knowledge and refused to hire the right people who knew how and could execute those areas of expertise needed to succeed. Plus Al this would have allowed RG & TR to do so much more, and not force this to be 100% on their shoulders and taking 24/7 from their lives.

TR told me point blank they had no idea the legal process needed to declare a country or origin. This was why cars have struggled to get through customs. A few months ago after shipments were seized, did they hire a specialty attorney in New York that does this exact thing for companies building a product outside of the U.S., where components are sourced from dozens of other countries.

Speed thought they could run a buisness on a manufacturing license, which they could have, if they were not selling the cars direct. Without dealers, they become the dealer. They had to get a dealers license to sell direct out of their showrooms. Remember originally you would take delivery via a dealer near you.

When it came to dealers they signed a bunch of dealers, but never built the structure each dealer needs to get, sell & service the product. Again Speed did not know what it takes to do all that. They still don’t and that’s why dealers are out. No infrastructure to support dealers.
Click to expand...
You may recall many, many offered to help Speed in this endeavor but RG chose not to and like you said is his downfall. When RG said hew was overwhelmed, then he should have hired the help needed. But he didnt so here we are. IMO RG should just sell the rights to HiSUN and even collect royalties so Hisun can take over and make and deliver cars. It would be a WIN WIN cause at this rate RG will go down with lawsuits and once again tarnished with a bad name. Thats my 2 cents but nobody cares lol.
 
NIKAL said:
“Most” did not have any facts 3 years ago. I had facts that were given to me by Speed, and at the time were factual. Unfortunately thing change as nothing is for sure, especially as mistakes are made along the way.

We can only hope Speed’s story turns out like Polaris's. I did a really cool history time line of Polaris & Arctic Cat. Polaris had a much rougher start than what Speed is going through now. So anything is possible and could get better.
Click to expand...
With no dealer network on the horizon and reliability issues I do not see the story turning around. Especially when the main person does not seem to want help and it appears there are lawsuits happening.

When some of the early car owners are selling their rides and other owners choose to do the same it is not looking good.

Much like the Wildcat XX the Speed car could be amazing if the project was run by another company.
 
Sand Shark said:
With no dealer network on the horizon and reliability issues I do not see the story turning around. Especially when the main person does not seem to want help and it appears there are lawsuits happening.

When some of the early car owners are selling their rides and other owners choose to do the same it is not looking good.

Much like the Wildcat XX the Speed car could be amazing if the project was run by another company.
Click to expand...
Saw one for sale this morning.
 
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