Speed UTV

DTA said:
I disagree. Again this was a ground up build according to Polaris. Packaging can be done from the onset. 

Again, leads me to believe using the clevis was not an idea to make their machine better, and was a decision to bypass other issues. 

I agree nothing is perfect. But things can be perfected and improved upon. Especially at $50k price tag.
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Yep, but you're not Polaris' chief suspension engineer.  Who knows, maybe they ended up with a bunch of wheelhop and it was eating bushings.  We'll never really know, and there are definitely problems that need to be addressed with this type of mount to make sure it lasts.  We'll see if Polaris did their homework.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
That's odd.

The Speed UTV doesn't use a clevis and exhibits better steering and handling capabilities. The whole front end, including the bulkhead, steering rack location, a-arm design, shock mounting location, spindle design - all were designed to be a NO compromise answer to the golf carts some people have been driving.

For proof, watch RG's videos on his design.

Then watch Shock Therapy's videos of all of the handling and steering problems he's experienced and all of the redesigned aftermarket parts he's selling by the truckload.

He wouldn't have bothered to design that stuff if it wasn't needed, and he wouldn't sell that much if the customers didn't need it. I'm now curious how many of the mfrs in the HUGE aftermarket sector also sell a ton of better than factory bandaids.  
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LOL.

The Speed UTV handles better than the Polaris according to whom?  What independent entity tested both?  What truckloads of parts has Shock Therapy sold for the Pro R?  It's weird, but when I go on Shocktherapy's website, I don't see any offerings for the Pro R...

image.png

Oh, yes, RG's marketing videos say it's better, therefore it is.

 
Rockwood said:
LOL.  Here we go again...

View attachment 25418

You are aware that for fastener loading, the clevis is just a backwards version of this:



There is literally zero difference as far as shear load on the fastener.  
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Are you EFFING kidding me?????????????????????????????

Take a closer look at the bottom of the clevis. There is a bolt on both bottom pieces. They are mounted SINGLE sheer to the bottom a-arm which is so wide that they can almost be considered 2 separate pieces for how little they support each other.

That is inferior to an actual A shaped arm with a big center section and a double sheer mount.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Just look at every current trophy truck out there.

 
DTA said:
I legitimately believe legal issues are the sole if not the largest reason they went with the clevis. There is no other explanation.

It's not superior, it's not widely used in this industry and they had failures first race out.

Also I never said they should used portals, I'm on my phone and without going back I'm pretty sure I stated portals are the standard on the top tier racecars.

The other option was to simply package the front end properly in order to not use the clevis. 

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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I don't think either of us are going to get through to him. If you notice, when asked for examples or backup info, he posted the Nissan GT-R as an example of a clevis. I'm pretty sure that's not an off-road car.

He doesn't know the difference between units of tensile strength and hardness. I was just on the phone with a friend who is a senior aerospace engineer and mentioned this "discussion" to him and he was almost ROTFL about the clevis. He said the clevis has failure points because it's redirecting direct forces into two separate directions. Then I mentioned someone confused units of tensile strength with hardness and he asked, "Why are you even wasting your time talking to this person?"

My answer was I didn't want anyone to stumble into this thread and come away thinking that the clevis is the superior design, but at this point, I think the point has been made and I'm walking away from Mr Argumentative.

Anywho, I have major respect for your knowledge!

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Are you EFFING kidding me?????????????????????????????

Take a closer look at the bottom of the clevis. There is a bolt on both bottom pieces. They are mounted SINGLE sheer to the bottom a-arm which is so wide that they can almost be considered 2 separate pieces for how little they support each other.

That is inferior to an actual A shaped arm with a big center section and a double sheer mount.

But hey, don't take my word for it. Just look at every current trophy truck out there.
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Nope.  Any shear load to that bolt is in two places, hence double shear. There is literally no difference in fastener loading between the two.  The "tabs" being longer is a design consideration, but doesn't mean it's no longer double shear. 

Almost only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades.

 
Rockwood said:
LOL.

The Speed UTV handles better than the Polaris according to whom?  What independent entity tested both?  What truckloads of parts has Shock Therapy sold for the Pro R?  It's weird, but when I go on Shocktherapy's website, I don't see any offerings for the Pro R...

View attachment 30940

Oh, yes, RG's marketing videos say it's better, therefore it is.
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No, actually every single person who has test ridden in one has said it was far superior to anything they've ever ridden in, including their own Polaris or CanAm. Watch all of the videos yourself.

They're absolutely gushing over how smooth it is, how well it handles, etc. It's probably Robby's "no bandaid" approach to designing it.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Don't forget more testing prior to release to the public. They could have caught that problem in testing.

Remember this statement if you have any failure with your Speed UTV.  LMAO!!!

Other than Wayne having the issue in the first race, I have not seen the issue come up again either in race application or with the recreational users.  There are plenty of them out there running around and if it were an issue we would be seeing and hearing about it.  Apparently manufactures are not allowed to get a bad batch of parts from vendors.  
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Lord of the Dunes said:
I don't think either of us are going to get through to him. If you notice, when asked for examples or backup info, he posted the Nissan GT-R as an example of a clevis. I'm pretty sure that's not an off-road car.

He doesn't know the difference between units of tensile strength and hardness. I was just on the phone with a friend who is a senior aerospace engineer and mentioned this "discussion" to him and he was almost ROTFL about the clevis. He said the clevis has failure points because it's redirecting direct forces into two separate directions. Then I mentioned someone confused units of tensile strength with hardness and he asked, "Why are you even wasting your time talking to this person?"

My answer was I didn't want anyone to stumble into this thread and come away thinking that the clevis is the superior design, but at this point, I think the point has been made and I'm walking away from Mr Argumentative.

Anywho, I have major respect for your knowledge!
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What about a Jeep?  Is that an offroad vehicle?  There are lots of vehicles out there that use a clevis mount for the shock.

What did your aerospace buddy think when you said a clevis is single shear? 

Sure, vocab mistake.  The point remains: why is tensile strength the only design consideration?  If I have a 1/4" fastener with a tensile strength of 1,000psi, and another 1/2" and 700psi, which is stronger?

So, you're saying tabs on a control arm are inferior as well because it's "redirecting direct forces into two separate directions"?  The force of the shock's single spherical bearing is still transferred to two tabs, is it not?

Personally, I think your "buddy" is google.  That, or he's exactly the same as you: splits hairs during an argument to be "right" without looking at the overall picture.

 
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Lord of the Dunes said:
No, actually every single person who has test ridden in one has said it was far superior to anything they've ever ridden in, including their own Polaris or CanAm. Watch all of the videos yourself.

They're absolutely gushing over how smooth it is, how well it handles, etc. It's probably Robby's "no bandaid" approach to designing it.
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Have they driven both the Pro R and the Speed UTV?  

Yep, no bandaids...

screen-shot-2021-09-21-at-7-34-10-pm-png.232253


:biggrin:

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
No, actually every single person who has test ridden in one has said it was far superior to anything they've ever ridden in, including their own Polaris or CanAm. Watch all of the videos yourself.

They're absolutely gushing over how smooth it is, how well it handles, etc. It's probably Robby's "no bandaid" approach to designing it.
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You know Polaris once put out a video of people gushing over their ride and saying how scary it was to shift a yamaha.   LMAO!

I once rode in a Corvette with a professional driver on a track. It was amazing what the car could do in the hands of a skilled driver.  Kind of like say getting in a Speed UTV with RG driving it.  I am 100% positive the Speed UTV handles really well.  I am pretty sure riding in it with RG at the wheel would make if seem 10x better.  

I know people that rode in the Speed UTV.  They were impressed.  Now would they have been equally impressed if they were actually driving it versus RG?  I will have to wait and see. 

Other than your Wildcat have you driven other sport UTVs? 

 
Speaking

Sand Shark said:
You know Polaris once put out a video of people gushing over their ride and saying how scary it was to shift a yamaha.   LMAO!

I once rode in a Corvette with a professional driver on a track. It was amazing what the car could do in the hands of a skilled driver.  Kind of like say getting in a Speed UTV with RG driving it.  I am 100% positive the Speed UTV handles really well.  I am pretty sure riding in it with RG at the wheel would make if seem 10x better.  

I know people that rode in the Speed UTV.  They were impressed.  Now would they have been equally impressed if they were actually driving it versus RG?  I will have to wait and see. 

Other than your Wildcat have you driven other sport UTVs? 
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Speaking of Wildcats....  Good thing they don't have any power.  I can't imagine this rear shock mount/trailing arm surviving long...

Wild7_DSC_3993.jpg


And, GASP! It's SINGLE SHEAR!!!!  

 
DTA said:
And as far as the Brenthel trucks go, they are not what I would consider top of the line (newest tech)
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Yes, lets ignore them being one of the first to run:

- Aluminum trailing arms

- Aluminum TT uprights

- Design their own AWD TT

- Carbon Composites

:classic_laugh:

 
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Lord of the Dunes said:
No, actually every single person who has test ridden in one has said it was far superior to anything they've ever ridden in, including their own Polaris or CanAm. Watch all of the videos yourself.

They're absolutely gushing over how smooth it is, how well it handles, etc. It's probably Robby's "no bandaid" approach to designing it.
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Funny, because every person I have ever given a ride to in my CanAm can’t believe how smooth it rides, i’m sure the Speed rides great, those people were so star struck with Robbie they would say anything. LORDY you are setting yourself up for some heavy backlash if this Speed doesn’t come out the way you say it’s going to. We all like the best, the Speed looks very impressive, but your Speed way or the highway is ridiculous. 

 
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