Speed UTV

NIKAL said:
Ok just stop! You can’t compare what Robby & Todd are doing to fabrication shops that build custom off road race cars & sand cars. It’s actually embarrassing that you would even try to make the comparison. Your smarter & better then that. 
 

Im guessing 90% of the parts on a Sand Car or off road race car are not build by the fabrication (Chassis builder) shop. They are built by someone else and available to anyone, even garage builders. I’d then guess about 85% of all “ Chassis” builders are all using the same parts. Everything about Speed UTV is being designed & built by them. 
 

Jimco which has been Score Chassis builder of the year probably 15 + years. They have probably produced more off road race cars then anyone. Yet they will never come close to building 12,000 vehicles in the company’s lifetime. Add up all the top sand car builders and all together I doubt they have built 12,000 chassis. Most will never build as many buggy chassis as Chenowth did, and Speed will produce more in one year then they did as a company. 
 
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The point being other manufacturers (Polaris, Can Am, Yamaha etc…) don’t have to do weekly videos.  They are not a start up company trying to generate sales and keep buyers interested.  
 

Can Am, Polaris, Yamaha, kawi and the rest put out videos on new models highlighting key features and sales points.  Which is what established manufactures do. 

Do you think RG would be doing these weekly videos if he was an established manufacturer?  Do you think these weekly videos will be on going when they develop the next UTV model? The answer is no.  He is one of the most secretive in off-road with what he does.  

No one will question RG as a salesman.  
 

I think LOTD is just mad Arctic Cat did not do weekly shows.  He probably would avoided buying a Wildcat.  Lol!  
 

 
Sand Shark said:
Love the in depth videos all the established companies have about their designs.  Really love how all the trophy truck makers and sandcar makers give us weekly videos on their designs.

oh wait they don’t to do that beciae they have a track record of producing cars.   
 

Do you think many would of stuck it out this long with the Speed UTV if he never did any videos?   I think most of you would of bailed 
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So you don't think RG has a track record of building trophy trucks?

What's he been doing for the past 35 yrs? Playing tiddly winks? You have your opinions, and that's all they are. If they were based on anything you could prove, I'd give them more credence.

Would people have given up without weekly updates? I don't know. Maybe. I don't make guesses about what other people would or wouldn't do. I suppose some would have but I think there would have been a lot of people, like myself, who are more patient and would still wait for the product just based on the initial CAD drawings and the videos of the first prototypes of people driving/riding in them through the whoops without having their helmets flying around in the passenger cabin like all of the other brands' videos.

When I watch those weekly videos, I'm watching the technical content from him as a designer of the UTV, I don't put a cynical spin on it and claim it's advertising to sell units. If it is and it's working, good for him. I think he's done a lot to educate the masses about stuff they should have already known. Like bump steer, track width change, trailing arm suspension, double sheer, uniballs, etc. The reason the other brands don't show off their technical superiority is because...

they don't have any. For example, I've already seen enough Pro R carnage to come to the conclusion that it's added weight is helping to break suspension parts, not make it any stronger. Look at how badly the rear suspension got bent up when HeavyD rolled the one the SxSblog guys lent them. Sous or whatever his name is wasn't too happy about that.    :lol:

 
Sand Shark said:
I know what I am looking at 90% of the time in those videos. I can also see when someone is being a salesman in those videos.  All those designs look great.  You should know that all those designs on paper, drawings, and prototypes don’t always work out in real world applications.  

How many changes did they have to make since September 2021?  

No changes to the chassis or suspension design. All of the changes they made were minor fitment issues, or process improvements, or changes for better longevity. For example they changed a lot of oil hose connections from hoses on nipples to -AN fittings. What does Polaris do? They wrap the battery cable around the driveshaft.    :lol:

Yes he is testing, but guess what so do all the other manufacturers. 

 Based on all of their past history, I truly doubt Polaris does. Or if they do, they don't make any changes based on it. Their history of stop sell/stop ride notices is EPIC. I bet they've surpassed Ford's recall history in sheer numbers.

What are you going to be saying about that testing and weekly shows when they are hit with warranty claims?  

We'll see how many they have. Nobody can build the perfect anything, parts are going to fail, but as long as they're a few random failures and not a design flaw that got ignored, there's nothing one can say or do about it.

Still going to be happy about all those  weekly shows as you probably go a 3rd desert season with no Speed UTV?

That wouldn't bother me in the least, since I have a sand rail. My first trip to Glamis was 1978. I didn't go again until 1987-89. Then I didn't get to go again until 2003. As you can see, I've missed a lot of desert seasons over the yrs due to living elsewhere, so missing 3,4 or 5 yrs (not that I am) wouldn't faze me at all. I don't have to have anything RIGHT NOW, unlike some people. I see them all over FB whining how they sold their ride a yr ago and they want their toy NOW. They don't sound like adults at all.
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Lord of the Dunes said:
So you don't think RG has a track record of building trophy trucks?

What's he been doing for the past 35 yrs? Playing tiddly winks? You have your opinions, and that's all they are. If they were based on anything you could prove, I'd give them more credence.

Would people have given up without weekly updates? I don't know. Maybe. I don't make guesses about what other people would or wouldn't do. I suppose some would have but I think there would have been a lot of people, like myself, who are more patient and would still wait for the product just based on the initial CAD drawings and the videos of the first prototypes of people driving/riding in them through the whoops without having their helmets flying around in the passenger cabin like all of the other brands' videos.

When I watch those weekly videos, I'm watching the technical content from him as a designer of the UTV, I don't put a cynical spin on it and claim it's advertising to sell units. If it is and it's working, good for him. I think he's done a lot to educate the masses about stuff they should have already known. Like bump steer, track width change, trailing arm suspension, double sheer, uniballs, etc. The reason the other brands don't show off their technical superiority is because...

they don't have any. For example, I've already seen enough Pro R carnage to come to the conclusion that it's added weight is helping to break suspension parts, not make it any stronger. Look at how badly the rear suspension got bent up when HeavyD rolled the one the SxSblog guys lent them. Sous or whatever his name is wasn't too happy about that.    :lol:
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The technical content was needed to show the difference between what the Speed UTV has to offer over the other brands.  It was awesome how he explained all the stuff and went over why they designed things a certain way.   Polaris, Can Am and the others dable is some technical stuff when they do the highlight videos when a new model is released.  They do not get into every detail because they do not have to and probably because a very high percentage of the audience does not care.  The want to see hp numbers and suspension numbers.  LOL!  

RG does not have a track record of building UTVs as a manufacture or doing anything to this level.  So you reputation only gets you so far before you actually have to do something.  How many trophy trucks do you think he and his team have actually designed and built over the years?   

Yes the Pro R is a giant overweight POS. Horrible design and absolutely no testing was done.  The 3 videos you saw for sure are an excellent representation. The diesel brother rolled the SXSblog Pro R on asphalt and the car actually came off the ground and impacted the asphalt. You expected no damage?  LMAO!  They were screwing around trying to get the car on 2 wheels, but the crash was clearly a design flaw from Polaris.    

The Can Am X3 falls apart coming off a trailer because you saw some pictures of the aftermath of someone lawndarting.  

You are fortunate to have another ride so waiting for your Speed UTV is no big deal.  

Hopefully we get to see some Speed UTVs next season in Glamis. 

 
NIKAL said:
No your point was you were comparing what Speed is doing compared to TT and sand car builders. And there is no comparison. 
 

Now you want to compare Speeds marketing to what the others are doing. First off let’s clarify there was no way to make or share videos when Polaris, Arctic Cat or Bombardier first started. In fact Polaris was born in the yard of a Hoist lifting company. It also failed and went broke a few times before making it. They had to give the first snowmobile to a lumber vendor to pay off a debt. Arctic Cat was started by the founder of Polaris and used his Polaris money, name and reputation in the snowmobile industry to get the funding and committed sales to build Arctic Cat, which also failed years later and has been bought & sold over the years. (Hearing it might be up for sale again soon) You heard it hear first! 
 

The fact is you can’t compare how people promoted or marketed a new company or product in the 1940’s & 50’s as a company would today. 

You are right Polaris & Can Am don’t need to do shows to promote their products now, as they are established and have other models that fund the next model in development. But maybe they should start sharing more? Maybe that is where we are heading when building a new product or company? Look at what the TV show Shark Tank has done to advertise new products & companies. 

Oh wait doesn’t Polaris “fake leak” photos out during the development of a new machine. How many “Leaked” photos of the Pro R did we see over a year before it was released? Doesn’t Polaris have a weekly or by-weekly show in TV called Destination Polaris? 
 

And how should a new start up company investing millions of dollars of their own money, promote a product that takes years to get to market? How do you prove proof of concept if you don’t get buyers on board early?
 

You know all those top race shops don’t build new race vehicles without having a big fish funding it first. Team C funded the development of the Mason AWD. RPM has funded Gieser trucks for years. 

Of course Robby would love to not have to do weekly updates. It’s exhausting for him to do. But guess what. He said he would do it until cars are delivered and in customers hands and he’s stood behind his word. That says allot.  Once Speed is up and running and developing other new vehicles, I’m sure we will see and know less then we are now. But I guarantee Robby will share more then any other UTV CEO will share. But then again how many other CEO’s really know what they are building? How many are recreational enthusiasts? 
 

So while you continue to bag on the way Robby & Todd have chosen to market and keep their buyers in the loop. It has worked as thousands of deposit holders have stayed the corse, and they have continued to sell more vehicles by doing a low to no cost IG / YouTube live shows. Seems brilliant if you ask me! Just think about it. They have done over two years of weekly 15-30 minute advertising shows at ZERO dollars. How much is Polaris paying their in house marketing team to leak photos of new machines? Millions! Lol! 
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Again LOTD made a comment about why others do not share their designs.  Yes I used off-road fabricators as an example and it does not take away from the point.  The others do not share because they do not have to do it to generate interest and sales.   

If you do not think part of the weekly shows are a sales pitch, then I have some swamp land to sell. Especially the earlier shows.  I am not knocking the weekly shows. I enjoy the technical aspects.  I see them for what they are which is to keep people on board and generate sales with a mix of some educational stuff.  The Speed customer is a little different as most have technical knowledge.  

Unfortunately, RG and company could not do what Tesla did.  Take a deposit and tell people you will get your car in a few years.   Powersports industry is different and the customers are quick to move on to the next shiny thing. 

The leak photos Polaris does is part of their marketing that generates buzz.  Destination Polaris was nothing more than a show to advertise a model and a particular aftermarket company.  An hour long commercial.  

I am quite aware Team C was the funding behind the Mason Awd truck. Just like Lofton and now Concrete Motorsports are the testers and funding for their transmission.  Geiser did a lot of funky stuff with RPM.  The twin motor trucks and the truggy that RG raced.  Too bad RPM stopped as it left Apdaly Lopez without a ride where he could consistently race.  

 
Sand Shark said:
The technical content was needed to show the difference between what the Speed UTV has to offer over the other brands.  It was awesome how he explained all the stuff and went over why they designed things a certain way.   Polaris, Can Am and the others dable is some technical stuff when they do the highlight videos when a new model is released.  They do not get into every detail because they do not have to and probably because a very high percentage of the audience does not care.  The want to see hp numbers and suspension numbers.  LOL!  

RG does not have a track record of building UTVs as a manufacture or doing anything to this level.  So you reputation only gets you so far before you actually have to do something.  How many trophy trucks do you think he and his team have actually designed and built over the years?   

Yes the Pro R is a giant overweight POS. Horrible design and absolutely no testing was done.  The 3 videos you saw for sure are an excellent representation. The diesel brother rolled the SXSblog Pro R on asphalt and the car actually came off the ground and impacted the asphalt. You expected no damage?  LMAO!  They were screwing around trying to get the car on 2 wheels, but the crash was clearly a design flaw from Polaris.    

The Can Am X3 falls apart coming off a trailer because you saw some pictures of the aftermath of someone lawndarting.  

You are fortunate to have another ride so waiting for your Speed UTV is no big deal.  

Hopefully we get to see some Speed UTVs next season in Glamis. 
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What you seem to be glossing over is my opinions about Can't Ham and Poslaris are based on actual photos and videos of damage when things went wrong. I never said they fall apart trying to get off the trailer because I haven't seen videos of that.

Yet.

Remember the first video of the Pro R where Poslaris paid Hoonigan to build a custom Pro R and do stunt driving with it in Long Beach? That was Poslaris selling the sizzle, because Joe Finance can't drive like that and what he is gonna buy from the dealer at a $10,000 dealer markup is certainly NOT the vehicle he saw in the video.

People should be outraged at that blatant bait and switch, but no, most of them rationalized it away one way or another. "Well of course they had to beef it up, no stock UTV could survive that. It's just a video, for entertainment. Nobody expects them to show off the real UTV."

That's what I respect about Speed. No flash (hell, they rarely get the mics to work properly) no sizzle, just tech talk, actual CAD drawings showing how it all fits together, how it works, why it's superior, how they're testing it, the failures, how they're modifying the parts to prevent future failures...    you know, the boring stuff. Daniel might be a talented engineer or whatever, but he could make a high crack addict fall asleep in mid sentence!

 
25 minutes ago, Dune-Track-N said:

which mfg is this testing ha ha at 3:30 turn it into a golfcart!

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:lol:    That's awesome!

Poslaris should hire Hasselhoff to do some promo videos and stunt driving before he dies! Maybe put the same strobing light bar that KITT had in the nose of the next Rzr model. What should they call it? Rzr Pro R X3 RR R3 SRT Vr RX KITT Special Edition?

:lol:

Are we at 200 yet?

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
What you seem to be glossing over is my opinions about Can't Ham and Poslaris are based on actual photos and videos of damage when things went wrong. I never said they fall apart trying to get off the trailer because I haven't seen videos of that.

Yet.

Remember the first video of the Pro R where Poslaris paid Hoonigan to build a custom Pro R and do stunt driving with it in Long Beach? That was Poslaris selling the sizzle, because Joe Finance can't drive like that and what he is gonna buy from the dealer at a $10,000 dealer markup is certainly NOT the vehicle he saw in the video.

People should be outraged at that blatant bait and switch, but no, most of them rationalized it away one way or another. "Well of course they had to beef it up, no stock UTV could survive that. It's just a video, for entertainment. Nobody expects them to show off the real UTV."

That's what I respect about Speed. No flash (hell, they rarely get the mics to work properly) no sizzle, just tech talk, actual CAD drawings showing how it all fits together, how it works, why it's superior, how they're testing it, the failures, how they're modifying the parts to prevent future failures...    you know, the boring stuff. Daniel might be a talented engineer or whatever, but he could make a high crack addict fall asleep in mid sentence!
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The Pro in RJ's video had stock suspension components and the shocks were Walker Evans instead of the Fox shocks due to RJ being sponsored by Walker Evans.  Hoonigans just filmed and produced the video.  They did not build his Pro R.  The video is just marketing just like the previous videos RJ has done for Polaris.   

The problem is your opinions are based only off of a few videos and pictures of people doing dumb stuff.  Not a complete picture.  Then again you base your opinions of the Speed UTV off of videos and some pictures so it does make sense.  LOL!  

 
michael.gonzalez said:
Damn. Who pissed in SandSharks cheerios this morning? Guys got a stick up his butt for sure.  :classic_laugh:
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A RG designed Speed stick to be exact.  It is double sheared and CAD designed to really stick in there.  You should check out the weekly design shows on it.  The Polaris one caught on fire and the Can Am one fell apart.   LMAO!!!

I was away for a few days in San Diego.  So I have to get back into the swing of things to get this to 200 pages.  LMAO!!!

 
Sand Shark said:
A RG designed Speed stick to be exact.  It is double sheared and CAD designed to really stick in there.  You should check out the weekly design shows on it.  The Polaris one caught on fire and the Can Am one fell apart.   LMAO!!!

I was away for a few days in San Diego.  So I have to get back into the swing of things to get this to 200 pages.  LMAO!!!
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Can't Ham has been spying and has decided to get out ahead of Speed on this one. The Next New Thing to come out from Can't Ham is going to be the X3.33 which will have 5 more hp (it's a tradition) and the gear shifter will be mounted in the middle of the driver's seat. You'll be able to order a 6" version, an 8" version and in the interest of diversity (and especially for Sand Shark) a 10" version. They're available in off white, purple or black. When you hit redline, of course they vibrate.

Of course the front shocks still won't be properly mounted, but Can't Ham is so in tune with their customers, they're going to dominate the industry in 2023! The SS Edition (Sand Shark) will come with custom Rainbow graphics so you can share your joy with the whole wide inclusive world.

They'll also have the Cuck Edition, which has an extra one mounted in the passenger seat!

(The preceding was for entertainment purposes only and in no way indicates that I have seen a video of one. Yet. This also does not suggest that anyone would or would not enjoy this model, even though he has already pre-ordered one. This is not an offer to sell nor does it provide financial advice. Your mileage may vary, consult your doctor before starting a new diet. Taxes and doc. fees extra. Use of this product has been known to cause death in rare cases, heart attacks infrequently and random cases of anal leakage have been reported. Kidney failure as well, since we don't know how to tune shocks.)

 
Thanks for this morning’s entertainment with my coffee.
I was busy the last few days driving my SxS in Glamis and didn’t have much time to read this thread. 

 
Sand Shark said:
Again LOTD made a comment about why others do not share their designs.  Yes I used off-road fabricators as an example and it does not take away from the point.  The others do not share because they do not have to do it to generate interest and sales.   

If you do not think part of the weekly shows are a sales pitch, then I have some swamp land to sell. Especially the earlier shows.  I am not knocking the weekly shows. I enjoy the technical aspects.  I see them for what they are which is to keep people on board and generate sales with a mix of some educational stuff.  The Speed customer is a little different as most have technical knowledge.  

Unfortunately, RG and company could not do what Tesla did.  Take a deposit and tell people you will get your car in a few years.   Powersports industry is different and the customers are quick to move on to the next shiny thing. 

The leak photos Polaris does is part of their marketing that generates buzz.  Destination Polaris was nothing more than a show to advertise a model and a particular aftermarket company.  An hour long commercial.  

I am quite aware Team C was the funding behind the Mason Awd truck. Just like Lofton and now Concrete Motorsports are the testers and funding for their transmission.  Geiser did a lot of funky stuff with RPM.  The twin motor trucks and the truggy that RG raced.  Too bad RPM stopped as it left Apdaly Lopez without a ride where he could consistently race.  
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Nonsense.  When Robbie was selling Monorails, he was very open kimono about the process as well:


:biggrin:

 
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24 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Nonsense.  When Robbie was selling Monorails, he was very open kimono about the process as well:

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LOL!  Simpsons for the win!

 
Sand Shark said:
LOL!  Simpsons for the win!
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Screen capture from early weekly Can Am X3 episodes:

LGOC790.jpg


 
DTA said:
RG has designed at least 3 trophy trucks and built at least 6.

He helped design a Dakar CL1 and built at least 2 of them.

He designed a Dakar Gordini and built 1 possibly 2 of them.

He has designed the SST and built I would guess at least 20 of them.

He designed a monster truck and a few were built, the numbers are unclear on how many were built.

Then on top of that, the many prerunner buggies and trucks over the years, many built and designed in house. My favorite being the silver Chevy with the 2BAJA license plate. Loved that truck.

He has built and designed many things and you cant take that away from him.

I would say his real world experience is as much as Mason and Geiser, close to Jimco. Just in different levels of length of time and number of builds.

How many people as of today have actually been burned by this endeavor? The answer currently is 0. This could of course change. I gambled $12k on this deal and I get burned it would be for a fraction of what I have been burned before in this industry.

It will come in time. Most people who have preordered have patience and understand the undertaking involved.

Others simply dont, and for those they have many other UTVs to choose from and that is perfectly fine.
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I knew you or Nikal would know how many RG has built.   The Valvoline truck was one of my favorites.  Mark Post's Riveria Racing truck was a work of art.  RG is certainly not afraid to try things and do it his way.  He is the essence of American ingenuity.  

 
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