Living with a 2D

is it only v8 power cars you are looking at or others?  that makes a big difference.  500hp in a v8 is comparable to a 400hp subie  and the later is easier on the trans. maybe you need to drive a v8 car with an S4 to make sure you're ready for the big weight difference.  just cause its got a big tranny and looks cool doesn't mean it will do what you are expecting it to. 

Typical

2d rebuild from $1500-4000 (average $2500)

S4 rebuild  from $2000-6000 (average $4000) 

S4d and Albin's rebuilds  starts at $3k and if you have to ask how high it can go, you cant afford "that car"

i may be off on the numbers.  you all can chime in so he sees what you all are paying

 
Blackjack said:
Most of the cars I'm looking at are N/A LS3's between 500-600 HP.  I had a reputable builder tell me that you "need" 8-900 h.p. to "have fun" in the dunes.  So, I'm already thinking supercharger, which = bigger everything else.  This is the point where I see the funnel form as my money starts going down the drain.  I know the H.P. bug is real, and I want to "have fun".  Perhaps my reality is that what I want just isn't affordable for me. 
Click to expand...
Does your SXS have 800hp?

Do you have fun in it?

 
xtream1 said:
On trans choice: remember the more expensive the trans, the more expensive the rebuilds. While 1st and 2nd gears are expensive in the 2d (about $1500 each), 3rd is cheap (about $75). So even a complete rebuild should be less than $5k (I drove in 3rd and 4th primarily with LS). Servicing/rebuilding a S4/D, each gear is more expensive and regular rebuilds are also more expensive (need to know how to shift to not damage gears) . An Albins ups the rebuild costs further but will also be less often.
Click to expand...
So, this the type of post where I need to step in and explain why this wrong. The costs you posted about the replacement parts are not accurate, and this is the type of post that people will call me about and say: "Well this guy says it only costs this much to replace these same parts, why are you charging me so much?" A 3rd gear for a 2D right now is about $400 and will be going up with production cost increases. There is no typical cost for a 2D rebuild, there are far too many variables, but I always tell people not to expect any less $2500, but be prepared for upwards of $4k if things are in bad shape inside, even they think nothing is wrong with it and just sending it in for preventative service.

A more expensive trans does not mean that it will always cost more to service. I have done $2000 services on Albins pushed by 800 HP and used for 5 years, and I have done $5000 services on 2D's used for 2 years, run it till it broke, or pushed by 400+ HP. While it is true that a 3rd gear for an Albins or S4 is more expensive than a 2D, the service life of those parts being pushed by the same engine would be much longer than the 2D

Most cars built with an Albins or S4D are going to have the bigger motor, which will determine how long those trans parts are going to last and how much it's going to cost to replace those parts based on the power they are being subjected to. A moderately powered 500-600 HP LS car with an Albins or S4D will typically cost less in services over the lifespan of the car.

If you want to compare apples to apples, compare trans bills based on engine power and how much use they get. An Albins pushed by the same 400 HP LS motor will greatly outlast and cost less to service than the same car built with a 2D with the same driver, based on the fact that those bigger gears and parts in the Albins are simply going to last longer. 

It all comes down to how hard the car is used, the type or terrain, and how many miles you actually put on it. The more miles and hard driving is what will drive up the cost to replace worn out gears. Good quality oil makes a big difference as well.

The fact is, most cars are built with the most powerful engine that the existing drivetrain can handle, and many more that are overpowered without regard to drivetrain. People are more than happy to spend money on getting more power out of their engine, because that is what you can feel when you drive the car. The problem comes when you need to spend money on a broken transmission over and over from the power you decided to run through it.

 
I'm not saying that cars at the upper end of my budget have 2D's.  That is just the most I would want to spend.  Ideally, I'll find something for around $40-50K, and then have a couple of bucks for some prep.  I don't know what name brands I can reasonably expect to find in this range.  I will be looking for a car with fresh receipts as I don't want to buy someone else's headache.  Unless receipts are available, I plan on rebuilding or replacing CV's, axles, etc. so that I know they are fresh.  What I don't want to be buying are engines, shocks, unknown frame/fabrication repairs, etc.

In my mind, I want a V-8.  Not to mention, most of what I see for sale right now is V-8 power.  The problem with sand cars, unlike SXS's, is that I don't have a bunch of buddies with cars where I can drive several different makes and models to chose the one I like best.  I'm trying to buy once, cry once. 

Knowing what to buy, strengths, weakness, brand quality, etc. is the mission I'm on at the moment.  For example, I see "2" hollow fronts" in listings.  I don't know what the hell that means, is it good, bad or other!?   I've been searching forums like mad trying to educate myself.  I'm sure a lot of this info was lost when this site crashed.  For those not in the know, this information isn't readily available outside of a forum such as this.  Makes doing your diligence more difficult.   

 
2 inch hollows are referring to the spindles, and you want them, especially on a big car.

What do you envision doing with the car? Pure duning? All hill and drags? Everyone is different. There are guys out there who just love trying to bounce off the top of the whoops as fast as they can. Other guys just go to the drags every night and that’s it (weird, but to each his own). 
 

Are you going to be the only guy in your group with a car and everyone else is going to stick with SxSs??

40-50k for a 2d car with money left over for maintenance and a few upgrades is a solid plan.

 
If you want a pure duner, Gary at C&G has a Funco for sale for $55K, needs nothing, ready to dune.  The car set up is simple and pretty easy to maintain....pretty much the easiest car to maintain.  My feeling, if you have a family or they are getting bigger, get a car.  

 
I like a good run through the dunes transitioning from bowl to bowl.  For me, it doesn't get better than that.  Not a big hill shooter, but I'll run up 2 or 3 times.  My RZR hits about 50 mph on test hill; not exactly adrenaline pumping speed, so I figure why ruin a belt by doing 50 hill runs.  As far as whoops, I don't look for them, but on the way to the beach store or what not, I like to get after it.  Whatever I get, I will be spending money to have the shocks professionally tuned.  I have put a lot of money into the suspension on my SXS, and I want the same, if not better ride out of my car.  It wasn't cheap, but it was damn worth it.  

I will be the lone wolf with a sand car, which is a bit of a concern.  Mostly, if I break, who the F will help rescue me.  Although, most of the guys have Pro R's on order....they are getting damn near as big as a sand car. 

 
Blackjack said:
I like a good run through the dunes transitioning from bowl to bowl.  For me, it doesn't get better than that.  Not a big hill shooter, but I'll run up 2 or 3 times.  My RZR hits about 50 mph on test hill; not exactly adrenaline pumping speed, so I figure why ruin a belt by doing 50 hill runs.  As far as whoops, I don't look for them, but on the way to the beach store or what not, I like to get after it.  Whatever I get, I will be spending money to have the shocks professionally tuned.  I have put a lot of money into the suspension on my SXS, and I want the same, if not better ride out of my car.  It wasn't cheap, but it was damn worth it.  

I will be the lone wolf with a sand car, which is a bit of a concern.  Mostly, if I break, who the F will help rescue me.  Although, most of the guys have Pro R's on order....they are getting damn near as big as a sand car. 
Click to expand...
My wife's "Hello Kitty" stickered Can Am has been the rescue vehicle of choice when it's time to tow someone out.  That, or my Jeep.  Buggies suck for towing out compared to SxSs...  4WD means you don't have to drive a gajillion mph to keep from getting stuck, and if you do, you can easily just back out of the holes you dug.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
One thing to consider is the availability of parts.  For me personally; the rebuild cost is irrelevant but the wait on parts is a deal breaker.  Everyone knows Covid F'd up everything, but 6-12 month wait times for a particular gear or R&P do not work for me.

 
I just picked up a 2006 Suspensions Unlimited Sand Pro II.....let's just say this car is a Unicorn so far...I'm the 3rd owner but the previous 2 owners did not drive the car often and definitely not hard on it...I say this because the car is 100% original other than a fuel pump and battery....the 2D has never been out of the car....did I mention 2006....934's mint condition, LS1 w/Cam and Truck Intake....again, not driven hard. 

So I immediately had the 2D pulled and dropped it off to Sam @ Rancho, just like the car the 2D was in great shape, I had Sam do all the updates to it and replaced all seals etc.....$1,300 Good to Go! 

If you drive them correctly and as others have said 500Hp or less then you can get multiple seasons out of it. 

Another consideration, I had a big +600Hp SCU with a S4.....one of the repairs to that S4 was +$5K due to a cracked case....on a 2D you're looking at $1,200 - $3,000 worst case scenario. 

Don't let a 2D stop you from buying a Sand Car.....night and day different experience from a SXS. 

Cheers! 

 
HBLOWEN said:
https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR-SALE:2015-Desert-Dynamics---LS3-Prerunner-Buggy-185965

I had this same chassis, dunes really well for a big car. 

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR-SALE:Tatum-Black-Widow-187507

Can't go wrong with a Tatum.

https://classifieds.race-dezert.com/FOR-SALE:2006-Sand-Cars-Unlimited--188057

Can go wrong with a SCU either. 

I check Race-Dezert.com daily. Some good deals pop up, just keep an eye out. 
Click to expand...
Some very nice cars. Have a buddy in our group with a DD and it dunes very well. That car maybe looks heavy for the dunes. Not sure how much weight the extra beef adds. Think his car is around 2600lbs IIRC. Sounds like you like to dune. Don't discount a Funco. Love mine and many many others do as well. Well documented. Well at least on the old forum before the crash. lol

 
From reading this thread I kinda feel like the only idiot that can break a 2d just by looking at it. Surprised about the love and how long that trans has lasted for many here. We lost a ton of info in the crash but many have broken them. If you like to push your stuff and play hard go S4 or bigger. Design of that trans is so much better. Not even a comparison. Call Bill at AZ transaxle or Kevin McMullen. Or better yet go down to their shop and take a look at both.  Here is the difference between a 2d and S4 reverse gear. In a 2d it is a piece of glass ready to break. Although I never broke one. And did the infamous crank the starter to walk the car out from being stuck more than once. You basically have reverse but don't really want to use it. Unless you have your kit gloves on.  :blink:

20180503_132854.jpg

 
onanysunday said:
Some very nice cars. Have a buddy in our group with a DD and it dunes very well. That car maybe looks heavy for the dunes. Not sure how much weight the extra beef adds. Think his car is around 2600lbs IIRC. Sounds like you like to dune. Don't discount a Funco. Love mine and many many others do as well. Well documented. Well at least on the old forum before the crash. lol
Click to expand...
My car weighed approximately 3,100. At the time it had a CBM LS1 383 and it duned great. Never felt like it was a slug. I later upgraded the motor to a LSX 447, but I never made it to the dunes to test it out. 
 

49A46DB0-D44B-4685-9A45-B563451F5AF9.jpeg

 
The other thing I don't remember being mentioned is shifting an H Pattern syncro 2d vs a dog sequential S4. Huge difference on how fast you can shift. My car does not have a lot of torque so I shift a lot. Just hammer forward or back to shift up and down. So much better. I do like the Funco shifter because it is long with lots of leverage.

20180617_144422.jpg

 
onanysunday said:
The other thing I don't remember being mentioned is shifting an H Pattern syncro 2d vs a dog sequential S4. Huge difference on how fast you can shift. My car does not have a lot of torque so I shift a lot. Just hammer forward or back to shift up and down. So much better. I do like the Funco shifter because it is long with lots of leverage.

View attachment 33155
Click to expand...
Do you like the turning brake up next to the shifter? After so many years with it between the seats it seems like it would be weird. 

 
There are many driving styles, some due to a lack of talent / experience, some due to the size of your checkbook and others due to the time, effort and hassle of dealing with broken shiz. You can be fast in the dunes without beating the crap out of your buggy. Little things like just maintaining momentum in the whoops and waiting to get back on it once it flattens out. I never really mashed the throttle until I was in 3rd gear or higher…there is nothing wrong with being “that guy” who’s always 5 miles out from the Baja 1000 finish line with 12 minutes to make up, that guy would be better served by something stronger than a 2D. 

 
AlpineFunco said:
Do you like the turning brake up next to the shifter? After so many years with it between the seats it seems like it would be weird. 
Click to expand...
Old location gave more leverage and was much better. You have to reach further and use more shoulder. Mine got better when I did the Jamar Pro x micro stub kit. Brakes don't seem to have any more surface area but it did work better. I use my turning brake a lot. 

 
onanysunday said:
Old location gave more leverage and was much better. You have to reach further and use more shoulder. Mine got better when I did the Jamar Pro x micro stub kit. Brakes don't seem to have any more surface area but it did work better. I use my turning brake a lot. 
Click to expand...
Good to know, thanks!!

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top