Living with a 2D

Tons of great info, and I really appreciate it!  Appreciate everyone being cool and educating me.  I mean, where else can you hang out and talk about transaxles....if I say trans at work, a whole other conversation breaks out!   

Funco was brought up, and I know they have a great rep as well.  I am planning to visit John@outfront.  He has piqued my interest in considering a subi powered Funco.  500 h.p. in a light car sounds like fun, and it also sounds like a 2D's survival rate is increased with a subi by keeping torque at bay on the low end.  Decisions, decisions....      

 
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Blackjack said:
Most of the cars I'm looking at are N/A LS3's between 500-600 HP.  I had a reputable builder tell me that you "need" 8-900 h.p. to "have fun" in the dunes.  So, I'm already thinking supercharger, which = bigger everything else.  This is the point where I see the funnel form as my money starts going down the drain.  I know the H.P. bug is real, and I want to "have fun".  Perhaps my reality is that what I want just isn't affordable for me. 
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I think this is a very ignorant comment from a "reputable builder". I had an ls525 in my alumicraft and could leave jus about anyone through the dunes. Car hauled ass and had plenty of power to get out of its way. My advice is to buy a good chassis and have a balanced power plant. 90% of the cars in the dunes are terribly designed and don't work, so HP doesn't really matter anyways. 

 
onanysunday said:
Some very nice cars. Have a buddy in our group with a DD and it dunes very well. That car maybe looks heavy for the dunes. Not sure how much weight the extra beef adds. Think his car is around 2600lbs IIRC. Sounds like you like to dune. Don't discount a Funco. Love mine and many many others do as well. Well documented. Well at least on the old forum before the crash. lol
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That DD is more than 2600 guaranteed.

 
Reece Pettersen said:
I think this is a very ignorant comment from a "reputable builder". I had an ls525 in my alumicraft and could leave jus about anyone through the dunes. Car hauled ass and had plenty of power to get out of its way. My advice is to buy a good chassis and have a balanced power plant. 90% of the cars in the dunes are terribly designed and don't work, so HP doesn't really matter anyways. 
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^^^^Exactly^^^^

Anyone (especially a builder) saying that you need 800-900Hp to "have fun" in the Dunes is not only ignorant but obviously looking to rape your wallet...don't be fooled....if you got stacks of cash then do what makes you happy, but don't break the bank thinking MORE and BIGGER is better in the Dunes. 

Buy or Build something well balanced, upgrade the Trans if you can, build a nice LS motor but focus should be on Suspension.....proper suspension setup makes you fast, makes you safer....why do you think Race Teams spend countless hours tuning their suspension....just my .02 

 
Meter Tech said:
^^^^Exactly^^^^

Anyone (especially a builder) saying that you need 800-900Hp to "have fun" in the Dunes is not only ignorant but obviously looking to rape your wallet...don't be fooled....if you got stacks of cash then do what makes you happy, but don't break the bank thinking MORE and BIGGER is better in the Dunes. 

Buy or Build something well balanced, upgrade the Trans if you can, build a nice LS motor but focus should be on Suspension.....proper suspension setup makes you fast, makes you safer....why do you think Race Teams spend countless hours tuning their suspension....just my .02 
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This is great advice.

 
Blackjack said:
 I had a reputable builder tell me that you "need" 8-900 h.p. to "have fun" in the dunes.  I know the H.P. bug is real, and I want to "have fun". 
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To "have fun" in the dunes 100% does not require 8-900 HP....... Not sure who said that but its :bs:   100%. I have had a rocket ship car with a O91 and a 2.0 subi and it was insane Fast Fun.  I have owned a couple of 2D cars with Honda 3.5s and now have an Alper 5.3 in an older SCU and I will tell you this.....ITS BIG TIME FUN........ Fast dune runs / plenty of managable power and reliable.......... If you like to dune,................If you wanna drag race then the 8-900 HP car makes sense.

EVEN if you are a guy that has a lot of $$$ to throw around / I still say Keep it Simple.......Get a reliable car (SCU & Alumicraft are my votes) that has a simple reliable V8 / S4 if you can swing it OR even a 2D ................ there is NOTHING better in the sand dunes at glamis than a reliable car that hauls azz / makes it back to camp on its own / Doesn't ruin your trips with drama break downs / has easy accesible parts and is comfortable to be in!

You can 100% do that for 45-55K for sure...........wait a few months till the economy drops like a lead balloon and maybe even less

Good Luck........the sand car addiction is a Crazy Thing BUT the feeling you get when it all goes right is like nothing else!

:poule:

 
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One thing to think about is power to weight ratio. If you are having a blast in your SXS that is about the same as a lighter long travel car powered by a vw motor. So a Subaru or Honda will make more hp and torque to push you faster through the dunes. Step it up to a v8 car. Even more torque and hp but the power to weight isn’t the same. The key to making a 2d last is having the suspension dialed In, keep the hp down, and don’t over do it with paddle tire size. If you plan to bash the car down the road, skip the 2d and buy a car with a bigger trans to begin with. I’ve been duning since I was born! My last long travel car had a 500hp ls1 with an S4. I drove the crap out of that car but still couldn’t drive it faster in the dunes than the car could actually go so 800-900 hp is a line of bull. Good luck

 
If you don't have an S4, twin turbos, 934 CVs, 35" paddles and 12.50s you shouldn't even venture too far from camp. You will get stuck and likely die out in the dunes. 

Seriously, it's the rapid loading and unloading of the ring gear that destroys a transaxle. Just because your throttle pedal has some room left doesn't mean you should always use it. Unless you are building new construction, I'd be more inclined to spend money on better suspension and creature comforts such as high quality seats before I would make a bigger transaxle fit a chassis meant for a 2D. A car with better suspension will outperform a faster car in the dunes almost every time, and your spouse in the passenger seat will thank you for it too. 

We have a stock LS2 and HV24 in our car and there has never been a time when we thought we needed more power or transaxle. I usually run out of talent before my car does LOL. We've also never broken a 930 CV. 

 
KLC said:
If you don't have an S4, twin turbos, 934 CVs, 35" paddles and 12.50s you shouldn't even venture too far from camp. You will get stuck and likely die out in the dunes. 

Seriously, it's the rapid loading and unloading of the ring gear that destroys a transaxle. Just because your throttle pedal has some room left doesn't mean you should always use it. Unless you are building new construction, I'd be more inclined to spend money on better suspension and creature comforts such as high quality seats before I would make a bigger transaxle fit a chassis meant for a 2D. A car with better suspension will outperform a faster car in the dunes almost every time, and your spouse in the passenger seat will thank you for it too. 

We have a stock LS2 and HV24 in our car and there has never been a time when we thought we needed more power or transaxle. I usually run out of talent before my car does LOL. We've also never broken a 930 CV. 
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Yup almost died last season with my 2.5 Subi 091 Transaxle.  I drive from Wash 13 to vendors and crawl sand highway to Olds, park and watch.  I dont want to break down out there and die of thirst.  Better spend your money like KLC said and get S4 or Albins!  LMFAO  

OP good you are talking to John Outfront for subi power.  Also consider V6 but def get a car with 2D minimum.  I can have fun all weekend and burn 20-25 gallons of race fuel.  Cant say same for my friends with their V8's and race fuel.  

 
Couple of things to consider, 

How long will you keep this car, is it your primary sport, bla bla bla,  I have had a VW based Transaxle, 2D, and a S4, S4D, 

Lots of cars running S4's with no issues, S4 and the S4D have the same 1-5+R gear stacks,  I believed the Diff Spider Gears are the same, so really only down to the Ring and Pinion, and the normal S4 is strong.

Can still break a S4, I have shifted them wrong on the drags and 2 to 3 times the dogs are gone and the trans is coming out.

2D have a couple of cars with 2Ds, had a SBC 350 and the 2D way out lasted the motor, did a LS416 Drove it hard, never broke it, but wore out every gear in it every season. 

I just stay off the Whoops, this will make a transaxle last much longer.

My Brothers car is a Desert Dynamics buggy works full body, completely stock LS1 Factory computer, 2D has never broke the trans, He does not hit the whoops, no clutch kicks, and Runs a 14.50 tire, Trans is going on 4 years, changes the oil every other year, has 934's MIcroStubs 33 Spline with 2'' hollows,  car is almost no maintenance.

You can drive these things super hard and put in tons of money, or not kill the thing and last for years with very little maintenance.

Still some barn finds out there,  my neighbor sold a DD Sandcar, boxed arms S4D 416CI  17'' wheels $55K,  I see 2D cars at $35K,  

Couple of things to be aware of,  Rear Breaks,  If it has the VW style rear breaks - like a Super Stub shaft, they can break and take out the whole day fixing it, personally I would stay with a MicroStub kit or Midboard kit.

 
@Blackjack

good example of a 2seat 2D car with Honda 

Sandrail - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by owner - vehicle automotive... (craigslist.org)

22K

Dual Sport Buggy - Sandrail - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by owner -... (craigslist.org)

40K but would only pay around $35K  Ls1 2D, 

2001 Extreme Powersports - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by owner -... (craigslist.org)

18K for a Bus box car, you can make this a 2D car and still be in budget 

BOURGET PHAT 5 SAND RAIL - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by owner -... (craigslist.org)

Bourget is a odd car so I dont think i would pay over $22K for this do to the SBC motor and Air Shocks,  but still in the twenties for a 2D car, 

2020 Predator Sand Car - atvs, utvs, snowmobiles - by owner -... (craigslist.org)

2D car with Supercharged Subie 2 Seat 32k  Think the value is around 28K or less 

 
Whenever I'm asked about what to look for in a used car or even a new car build I say- choose a chassis/builder, pick the suspension, get as much transaxle as you can afford, now build the engine.  You can only go as fast as your shocks will allow and each transaxle has it's horsepower limitations, which is why the engine choice should be last.

Last year I sent 12 transaxles to Rancho for rebuilds.  I could go on for hours with how many cars I've prepped with known and unknown trans problems, be it a Mendeola or an Albins (didn't see a single PBS last year).  

When I used to race we had a Buckshot X5 with a 2D with 930's and a trans pump pushed by a Redline tuned LS1, probably 400ish HP.  This car was hammered on for 7 years as a street car in AZ at NAU, Glamis duner and then a prerunner in Barstow, Lucerne, Nevada, Baja, etc.  Never had a trans issue.  When the team owner sold the car we did a prep and sent the 2D to Rancho.  Sam said it looked great and did a basic race prep, around $1000.  We were surprised it didn't need anything.

I went from a 091 V6 car to an Albins V8 car.  I skipped a lot of Mendeola repairs.  I've had my Albins gone through twice in 7 seasons.  There was noting wrong with my Albins that I was aware of and it was $5k to rebuild.  Around Thanksgiving 2020 I heard some bad noises in 2nd gear.  Unfortunaletly there were no parts available so I kept driving it and skipping 2nd gear (it's and H pattern).  When I finally was able to get it rebuilt it was $4k.  No complaints, car is 3550lbs, I hammer on it, and we dune a lot.

 
In all fairness to the “reputable builder” his / her advice regarding horse power may have been less of a generalization and more specific to the author. I have no idea which builder is being referred to but the HP advice may be spot on for a prospective customer wanting to “hammer it through the whoops” or lead the pack at the drags on two wheels. “There’s an azz for every seat.”

 
BaBaBouy said:
In all fairness to the “reputable builder,” his / her advice regarding horse power may have been less of a generalization and more specific to the author. I have no idea which builder is being referred to but the HP advice may be spot on for a prospective customer wanting to “hammer it through the whoops” or lead the pack at the drags on two wheels. “There’s an azz for every seat.”
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J Alper said:
My Brothers car is a Desert Dynamics buggy works full body, completely stock LS1 Factory computer, 2D has never broke the trans, He does not hit the whoops, no clutch kicks, and Runs a 14.50 tire, Trans is going on 4 years, changes the oil every other year, has 934's MIcroStubs 33 Spline with 2'' hollows,  car is almost no maintenance.
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Does not compute....

 
Kraut_n_Rice said:
Does not compute....
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I have tried to get him to Stroke it, LOL, but he just cruzes around to the destination area, with 4 peeps in it all the time, Just good to have them out there,  

but that is a good point, these cars last a long time depending on testosterone, and keeping up with the jones,  My brother Pete never broke his 091, 

 
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