Blown Head Gasket

[J Alper]

what i meant about dentition was pre ignition like you would hear a ping or light wrap under load. it causes very high cylinder pressures and could lift the head among other bad stuff cracked ring lands melted piston just depends on how bad it happens. being boosted adds to the stress on the cylinder sealing.  btw mcdowell is a great choice and good luck im hoping to make it out around the 17th thru newyears 

Sometimes minor detonation will just eat the head gasket out from between the block and head, eventually exposing the water jacket. 

If any signs of lean running/detonation, might be worth making sure the rings didn’t lose tension

These guys are spot on,  ^^^

the piston will look like 1/8 round circles everywhere, cut the plug down to the base if it looks like you put some black pepper spots, or a plug is closed off, and of course a broken piston gland then it might have detonated, typically head gasket does not go out unless the motor ran out of water or had a huge air pocket with a out of control temp gauge with maybe a radiator boil over,  Yes we do see them in vehicles that have been on the road with a water leak and no coolant, so you get a rust or pure water eating the gasket, can you pull up the max timing in the ECM, another road to look at,   

 

[BONES]

what i meant about dentition was pre ignition like you would hear a ping or light wrap under load. it causes very high cylinder pressures and could lift the head among other bad stuff cracked ring lands melted piston 

that is exactly why I need someone who knows what to look for, I didn’t even know what that meant. 

well the actual thing you should try to find out is why it failed. is it tuned too hot   bad gas with no octane left causing it to dentate. if it was detnotating you might see some marks on the piston or metal on the spark plug. mabe injector is clogged fuel pressure right causing a lean condition??? could of been running hot or mabe the gasket wore into the head or block deck. chacks. either way it is usually a easy job on a rail and gaskets aren't too expensive so pop it apart and do some investigating.  

I always love a good mystery, Except when it costs me money. I feel like I need to drain all the gas now, check my fuel drum, go through my whole system. maybe sand got into my fuel some how. 
I bought this car from my brother in law last season and he put a bunch of money into this motor to build it right. I feel like it’s something stupid that I did to make this thing go sideways. 

Did water get in the oil pan and cause damage to the bearings  

I was wrong, when I drained the oil, it was full of water. Not sure yet if bearings are damaged. Plugs on the side that was smoking looked like this: 

(my 3 y/o pulled the plugs for me and did all the technical stuff)

 

[Jersey_Jeff73]

that is exactly why I need someone who knows what to look for, I didn’t even know what that meant. 

I always love a good mystery, Except when it costs me money. I feel like I need to drain all the gas now, check my fuel drum, go through my whole system. maybe sand got into my fuel some how. 
I bought this car from my brother in law last season and he put a bunch of money into this motor to build it right. I feel like it’s something stupid that I did to make this thing go sideways. 

I was wrong, when I drained the oil, it was full of water. Not sure yet if bearings are damaged. Plugs on the side that was smoking looked like this: 

(my 3 y/o pulled the plugs for me and did all the technical stuff)

View attachment 51011

View attachment 51012

i see you got you #1 ace mechanic awesome. my kid are my pit crew 

 

[Jersey_Jeff73]

when you drained the oil did the water come out first then the oil and the oil still look like oil or was it all blended together looking like a milkshake also if you pull a valve cover see if the underside is wet. just curious what you were running for coolant antifreeze or water or a mix. if the oil was not emulsified the water probably didn't make it to the bearings. but if your going to pull the engine any builder will want to pull the pan and replace the bearing hone the cylinders and replace the rings at a minimum and if water got in a set of lifters wouldn't be a bad idea either way. its easy to spend other people money on the other hand if you going just put a head gasket on that one side not pull the engine and cross your fingers to finish out the season it might be ok. you had said that the engine was built for a blower that would mean it would of ben built with lower compression and a different cam but i didn't see a blower.  

 

[BONES]

when you drained the oil did the water come out first then the oil and the oil still look like oil or was it all blended together looking like a milkshake also if you pull a valve cover see if the underside is wet. just curious what you were running for coolant antifreeze or water or a mix. if the oil was not emulsified the water probably didn't make it to the bearings. but if your going to pull the engine any builder will want to pull the pan and replace the bearing hone the cylinders and replace the rings at a minimum and if water got in a set of lifters wouldn't be a bad idea either way. its easy to spend other people money on the other hand if you going just put a head gasket on that one side not pull the engine and cross your fingers to finish out the season it might be ok. you had said that the engine was built for a blower that would mean it would of ben built with lower compression and a different cam but i didn't see a blower.  

No milk on the dipstick, antifreeze as soon as the plug was pulled. I thought it all burnt off, buuuuut noo. 
 

No sir you are correct, no blower on the motor. He was going to put a blower on the motor and put a S4 in the car. I wanted the car and I kept bugging him to sell it to me, and it worked out that he found a car built with A big blower and a big transmission to handle it.  I wanted this car so bad I pushed him over the edge to sell it. I think he still kicks himself for it.  
 

all this info is great. Pulling this car apart is good too, I’m getting to know how it’s all set up. It’s got panels covering everything, and someone else has done the work on this everytime it’s needed something. I didn’t even know what ecu I had in this till last night.  Mefi4, if anyone cares. 

 

[Rockwood]

Pull the valve covers and see how much water is up there.  If there's water up there, decent chance water was pumped through the oiling system, which likely means a tear down is necessary.  You do not want water as a lubricant, especially on the steel parts.  

Minor detonation on a strong bottom end can be tolerated for a surprisingly long time before something gets eaten.  In my racing days, I ran JDM junkyard engines in a racecar.  Ended up with a 10:1 motor instead of the expected 9.5:1 and ran the same tune.  Can't hear chit in that racecar, so never heard the detonation until the headgasket let go near the end of an entire race season (4,000 miles ish of near constant WOT).  The motor was pouring coolant out the exhaust when we loaded it up to go home.  When we pulled the head to inspect/laugh, the corner of the cylinder/head and headgasket had been slowly chipped away, one grain of dust at a time. The engine was also full of rust, so we scrapped it.

 

[BONES]

Not sure if i have ever seen a LS head warp,  They will get soft, so might need a head, lot of work to risk it on a soft head,  

 I have had mine up to 265 degrees and not lost a gasket,  

• Did it detonate, 
  
• Does it have a fueling issue, 
  
• Is the system water lines correct
  
• Does it have a thermostat, if no does it have the bypass freeze plug in the pump, 
  
• Is the Block soft
  
• Is the Head soft
  
• Did water get in the oil pan and cause damage to the bearings  
  

Hopefully just a gasket, but a lot can go wrong in this situation, 

Then you can decide, or it might have, when the heads are off, Valve springs are a item that should be serviced like CV's, also does it need Valve ect

• Check Valve seats 
  
• Check Spring tension,  
  
• New valve guides 
  
• Trunnion Replacement, or Trunnions, I have had failures with all brand of trunnions exempt for comps 
  
• Does it have Chromoly pushrods, cheap upgrade, 
  
• Do i change the lifters at least the guides, GM OEM only for Guides, 
  

This is what i would be thinking when the heads are off, 

How about sand coming through the intake? Would this cause a head gasket to blow? My intake manifold has some grit in it. 
 

so some more questions for you guys:

- can I reuse exhaust manifold gaskets? 
- any perticular injectors that you recommend? 
- I have the motor and trans ready to pull, should I leave the heads on for the engine builder to be able to break apart untouched so he can better diagnose what’s going on inside this thing? 
 

I have so many more questions for when putting it all back together. Installing CVs back, etc.. This is going to be some late nights ahead but of me to make this next trip 

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

You're going to reuse gaskets (cheap), but are wanting to buy new injectors (expensive)?...

 

[lincster]

You can reuse exhaust manifold gaskets.

Been using mine for years.

Stock motor?  just get stock injectors.  If you need them.

Heads on/off, ask your engine builder.

That sand around the bolts on the intake is normal, has nothing to do with what is going on inside the motor.

 

[J Alper]

Real Factory injectors are about $1000, So many fakes, not sure how many times you want to rebuild it, but for me when it comes to injectors this comes to be the biggest issues with tuning or future problems.  Talking with the tuners if you want a good tune at all points you need injectors with DATA, the offset time is critical for a good tune some systems have old or non updated data, or the data will change with the injector and the update on the software will not,

I Use FIC or the Ford Motorsport Injectors 

Also Getting the injectors Cleaned and checked is a good practice, I think most will clean injectors for around $160

 

[Rockwood]

You can reuse exhaust manifold gaskets.

Been using mine for years.

Stock motor?  just get stock injectors.  If you need them.

Heads on/off, ask your engine builder.

That sand around the bolts on the intake is normal, has nothing to do with what is going on inside the motor.

He's talking about all the grit in the port and the blown out O-ring there. That's not good/normal. :biggrin:

 

[Jersey_Jeff73]

i would have the injectors flowed and cleaned this way you will know if one was clogged. i would pull the heads just to see what is going on but if your not going to put it back together you might as well leave them on this way nothing gets lost or damaged in the transportation. also helps keeping the dirt out of the engine. like alper said talk to your tuner on the injectors there are alot of injectors out there with little or incomplete data you need to be able to tell the ecm the flow rates at different voltages so the data is critical. 

 

[Jersey_Jeff73]

Real Factory injectors are about $1000, So many fakes, not sure how many times you want to rebuild it, but for me when it comes to injectors this comes to be the biggest issues with tuning or future problems.  Talking with the tuners if you want a good tune at all points you need injectors with DATA, the offset time is critical for a good tune some systems have old or non updated data, or the data will change with the injector and the update on the software will not,

I Use FIC or the Ford Motorsport Injectors 

Also Getting the injectors Cleaned and checked is a good practice, I think most will clean injectors for around $160

did you notice the bad gasket on his intake do you think that would create a bad enough vacuum leak to make that one hole go lean

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

did you notice the bad gasket on his intake do you think that would create a bad enough vacuum leak to make that one hole go lean

There would've been other noticeable part damage.  Piston, plug, etc.

 

[BONES]

Well… I Came home yesterday and pulled the motor out.   I left the heads intact so I still don’t know what’s inside. We got it out pretty easily, once I spent a few hours pulling everything apart. 
Then I pulled the transmission and put it in the back of my truck. I called McDowells at about 6 at night and he said he was still there, so I headed over. He’s a cool dude, showed me his shop, explained the transmissions and chatted. I wanted to see a 2D reverse gear too. TINY!!! 
Now I wait…

 

[Rockwood]

Pull the valve covers yet?

 

[BONES]

Pull the valve covers yet?

Haha. I guess I forgot to add that I took the motor over to a guy named Chris wheeler who builds some pretty good race motors. If it was in the off season and I had more time, I’d be more inclined to do this on my own, or at least dissect it, but our next trip is in a few weeks and I gotta try to get this all back together before then. 

 

[BONES]

Head gasket update: 

head gaskets are just fine. Heads are fine. Cylinder wall on the block is cracked. 
 

I guess it’s time to upgrade…

 

[Rockwood]

Buuuuuuuummmmmmmmer

 

[BONES]

Ha, it keeps getting better! I got a call from McDowell, transmission needs an R&P, main bearings, 2nd gear, & 3rd gear. I just replaced the clutch during off season.  Might as well add everything else. 

New motor and a new transmission… anybody know a good divorce lawyer? I think I’m going to need one… 
my wife said she’s going to drive the car from here on out and I need to go back to a motorcycle.