BFD Revo opinions

dunenigma said:
So why does Weddle offer a hv 24-5 at close to the same price as a S4-5 ?. There's my confusion. Is it just the mounting location for a replacement ?
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HV series design is better than the S4. It may not match the S4 in max HP or torque but internally it is superior.

 
Still confused. IDK, seems like putting an HV25 or S5 behind a 350ehp 2.5 subie is a bit overkill and 100lbs more weight and $7k more price tag. Next is 930 or 934's,  2" hollows etc etc. Just trying to get a budget together ( homework) and looking at the 2026 season. Waiting for BFG's soft quote.

 
dunenigma said:
So a 300hp + 2.5 subie engine is doable. Only about 30% more than in 2000 (last time I bought a subie). Still affordable for a new build.

The tranny.

A mendie 2d not that long ago use'd to cost $7k new.

Now Weddle has a NEW 2d for $11k, an hv24 and 25 for 15-16-17k? And doesn't even include drive flanges ?. And an s4 or 5 for what ?. I'm so confused.

All I can say is, WTF. This has gone way further than inflation. The word monopoly comes to mind. Jmo.
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There are lot's of factors that would be required for a full response here, but I will only touch on the major ones;

The HV-2 transmissions were priced to sell when we released them in 2015. We were barely covering our costs on each one sold. But we wanted to get as many of them out into cars so they could prove their worth over the 2D. The cost of an HV-2 was always going to be a bit more than the 2D once that program proved its reliability. 

The reason for the sharp increase in prices 2 years ago was due to the fact that we had not raised prices on any of the gearboxes in about 15 years, where we should have been making smaller incremental price increases over that time to prevent a sharp increase. Combine that with the sharp increase in production costs (inflation) during Covid, and we were put in the situation to raise prices far more than we had intended to do so.

The HV-2 is a far superior transaxle to the 2D, and in a lot of ways, superior to an S4/S5. It simply lacks the larger diff gears that would allow me to say it is superior to the S4/S5. 

I actually don't have any problem with anyone wanting to buy a 2D today. The problem will become finding a builder that can actually assemble one as the VW parts required to assemble them are becoming obsolete. And, I know we will have a repeat customer.  :classic_cool:

Believe me when I say that the top brass here are very in tune with the perception of our customer base looking at us as a monopoly, and they are very aware of making sure our products are priced fairly. 

For comparisons sake, the top level Polaris UTV's were selling for about $25k pre-covid. They are now $35k-$40k. 

The entire industry had to adapt. 

And by the way, all of our transaxles come standard with 930 drive flanges in the base cost. The option for 934's or upgraded "Weddle Flanges" is what you are paying extra for. 

 
dunenigma said:
So why does Weddle offer a hv 24-5 at close to the same price as a S4-5 ?. There's my confusion. Is it just the mounting location for a replacement ?
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This was not our original intent, but by the time the numbers added up with the features we built into the HV-2 line, it became what it is. 

Neither of them share the same mounting locations. 

dunenigma said:
Still confused. IDK, seems like putting an HV25 or S5 behind a 350ehp 2.5 subie is a bit overkill and 100lbs more weight and $7k more price tag. Next is 930 or 934's,  2" hollows etc etc. Just trying to get a budget together ( homework) and looking at the 2026 season. Waiting for BFG's soft quote.
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Example: Class 10 desert race cars have been powered by sealed Ecotec engines, putting about 185 HP to the tires for the past 12 years or so. 

Most of these Class 10 cars were originally built with 2D and MD5 (5-speed 2D and 33" tires. Once these cars started going faster and went to 35" tires, transaxles started requiring lots of maintenance, specifically R&P sets requiring replacement every 800-1000 race miles. 

We have since started selling the big Albins 11.5" and S5D transaxles for newer Class 10 builds to keep the transaxle maintenance costs in check and get more life out them. One of these just won the Class 10 MORE race a few weeks ago. 

Again, still using that sealed Ecotec putting about 220 HP to the crank. 

Having a bigger or stronger trans coupled to a lower powered engine allows you to use every HP you want out of that engine with far less worry of breaking the trans. 

Every component has its limits. There are quite a few members on this board that have spent money hand over fist on their 2D trans and a very mild LS engine. 

 
Sean, dude !. That was an awesome response and thank you. Very diplomatic.

Being in this sport for 38 years I appreciate honesty. One can't really put a hard # to reliability regarding, HP , torque, tire size, driver style etc. of any tranny. 

I'm just trying to put past experiences with modern day economics. 

"Yikes"

 
I'm looking for a cool car somewhere between a sxs and a blood sucking $100 a ride LT.

 
And strictly a dune car. 

Wow

There's nothing out there. 

 
New that is . Not interested in a 25 yo mild steel car w/a vw. 

 
Never had one and thought they looked like a fun ride when they were new about 5 to 7 years ago? - small, light, and better than a sxs potentially...but I saw a few of them in the dunes and they seemed to not do so well in the whoops - short wheelbase maybe? It would be a tough choice between a revo and one of the new sxs's now...in the last 7 years the sxs's have come a long way.

 
I owned a revo with supercharged eco. It was fun for a minute. nothing compared to big V8 car. I think @tjZ06 hit it on the head. There is a V6 car for sale back east that caught my eye for a back up wife car. The revo market is not great. it is small and nimble and I liked that but it needed more power it got hot in the heat so I had to pull the windshield. Honestly the pro r is a better machine if i was to compare apples to apples. TBH

 
Sean@Weddle said:
There are lot's of factors that would be required for a full response here, but I will only touch on the major ones;

The HV-2 transmissions were priced to sell when we released them in 2015. We were barely covering our costs on each one sold. But we wanted to get as many of them out into cars so they could prove their worth over the 2D. The cost of an HV-2 was always going to be a bit more than the 2D once that program proved its reliability. 

The reason for the sharp increase in prices 2 years ago was due to the fact that we had not raised prices on any of the gearboxes in about 15 years, where we should have been making smaller incremental price increases over that time to prevent a sharp increase. Combine that with the sharp increase in production costs (inflation) during Covid, and we were put in the situation to raise prices far more than we had intended to do so.

The HV-2 is a far superior transaxle to the 2D, and in a lot of ways, superior to an S4/S5. It simply lacks the larger diff gears that would allow me to say it is superior to the S4/S5. 

I actually don't have any problem with anyone wanting to buy a 2D today. The problem will become finding a builder that can actually assemble one as the VW parts required to assemble them are becoming obsolete. And, I know we will have a repeat customer.  :classic_cool:

Believe me when I say that the top brass here are very in tune with the perception of our customer base looking at us as a monopoly, and they are very aware of making sure our products are priced fairly. 

For comparisons sake, the top level Polaris UTV's were selling for about $25k pre-covid. They are now $35k-$40k. 

The entire industry had to adapt. 

And by the way, all of our transaxles come standard with 930 drive flanges in the base cost. The option for 934's or upgraded "Weddle Flanges" is what you are paying extra for. 
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Here at Gear one the other side of our company is gear manufacturing. Now we don't grind gears in house, yet... So we would not be a shop that could manufacture these transaxle gears. But we manufacture gears for a multitude of industries in quantity of 1 -5000.

With that said, I understand weddles prices may look high, but they really are super fair. Our sport is super niche, and the quality Weddle delivery's is great who ever makes these gears takes pride in there work.

and if anyone thinks its a monopoly, they  should design a transaxle, invest in the  equipment  :makerain:  , and start making transaxles. 

It would be a tough road to design a transaxle & compete with pricing...

Sorry for hijacking the thread, just felt i needed to chime in.

 
parker@gearone said:
Here at Gear one the other side of our company is gear manufacturing. Now we don't grind gears in house, yet... So we would not be a shop that could manufacture these transaxle gears. But we manufacture gears for a multitude of industries in quantity of 1 -5000.

With that said, I understand weddles prices may look high, but they really are super fair. Our sport is super niche, and the quality Weddle delivery's is great who ever makes these gears takes pride in there work.

and if anyone thinks its a monopoly, they  should design a transaxle, invest in the  equipment  :makerain:  , and start making transaxles. 

It would be a tough road to design a transaxle & compete with pricing...

Sorry for hijacking the thread, just felt i needed to chime in.
Click to expand...
Well when a S4 cost $12k with rem polished gears back in 2013 when there was competition and now they cost $18-19k and there is no competition, is that a monopoly ?, is that inflation ?. IDK what to say other than WTF. If there wasn't competition between sxs companies do you think you could buy a pro r, Mav r, or x3 or  whatever for $30-50k new ?. Then there's always that financing argument. 

Mendeola did their homework back in the day and payed the way for a lot of the stuff we have today. 

 
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