Albins carnage

Justgetnby said:
Yes I will. Looks like 3rd gear failed to me and debris took out the rest..
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That is what happened to my Brothers 2d years ago,  2nd failed,  but 2nd look like someone put it in a lathe and spun every tooth, this happed in about a 1/4 mile, almost instant  

 
off topic but is this something I need to worry about with my fresh 002 when I dyno it with 300-350HP?  do I want to have my tuner dyno it on my builders engine dyno and just double check things on the chassis dyno?

 
J Alper said:
That is what happened to my Brothers 2d years ago,  2nd failed,  but 2nd look like someone put it in a lathe and spun every tooth, this happed in about a 1/4 mile, almost instant  
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Dang, that would wreck your day!

 
Five.five-six said:
off topic but is this something I need to worry about with my fresh 002 when I dyno it with 300-350HP?  do I want to have my tuner dyno it on my builders engine dyno and just double check things on the chassis dyno?
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Well my engine was tuned on an engine dyno first as well.... I dont think you have much to worry about from the dyno.. but 350 on a 002 is alot! Be gentle to second gear, she lets go with much less power than that... been there.

 
Justgetnby said:
Well my engine was tuned on an engine dyno first as well.... I dont think you have much to worry about from the dyno.. but 350 on a 002 is alot! Be gentle to second gear, she lets go with much less power than that... been there.
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It’s a 5 rib all weddle box. But last time we tuned this car, we did 26 passes so this thread scares me.... I know I don’t even have a $7k box but it’s more than I want to spend to fix it. 

 
Five.five-six said:
off topic but is this something I need to worry about with my fresh 002 when I dyno it with 300-350HP?  do I want to have my tuner dyno it on my builders engine dyno and just double check things on the chassis dyno?
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Wow.  First image that came to mind when reading this was a picture of the Coyote riding one of those Acme rockets...

 
Justgetnby said:
Yes I will. Looks like 3rd gear failed to me and debris took out the rest..
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This will be my last post in this thread.

Jed,

If that was the case, we would typically see larger chunks of material broken off of the other gears, as well as heavy impressions in the gear tooth face from the bits of broken gear that have been crushed between the gears. Pictures are attached showing a UTV gearbox currently here with this exact type of damage to the other gears from a gear failure. The UTV boxes are quite prone to this type of damage due to high gear being at the top of stack of gears, and all of the little bits and pieces fall through the lower gears resulting in this type of damage.

This is not the first time we have seen this sort of failure in your gearbox. This is usually caused by oil that has either broken down, usually from excessive heat (300ºF+) for an extended period of time, or from an oil that does not have the proper extreme pressure additive requirements, or from a simply not enough oil in the gearbox.

The pictures of your gears clearly show that there was some level of oiling issue. Since we don't have all of the proper data required to know exactly what that oiling issues was, all we can do is rely on our experience of seeing thousands of gearboxes throughout the past 30 years to rule out all other possibilities. 

We have seen single gear failures (a few from the big powered cars) where 3rd gear is quite literally stripped from the shaft and ground smooth, but no other gear was damaged in the process. The chunk of gear tooth that is missing from your 3rd gear was most likely caused by excessive heat due to the excessive friction from the lubrication issue, which de-tempered the material and made it brittle.

If the argument wants to be made that this was a bad batch of gears, keep in mind that each one of the gears in these gearboxes is made in separate batches per ratio, usually 15-25 pieces at a time. Each ratio is heat treated in its own batch at different times throughout the year. There are (9) separate gears in a 5-speed Albins transaxle, and all have been heat treated in their own batches as they are produced. The likelihood of an entire 1st-5th set of gears receiving a bad heat treat in (9) different batches is extremely unlikely, and we would be seeing the same failure in the 15-25 transaxles that have these gears installed.

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Weddle uses the Maxima oil, so that is what i switched to in my last rebuild,  Also in the past i had the Ring and pinion and 1-4th REM polished from Weddle, not sure if the Albins already comes that way, 

 
That's outright failure though and doesn't sound like whining when it happens, more fork in a garbage disposal sounds. I've been there/done that. A lot.  Plenty of other failure methods for metal, but while it's possible this is oil starvation, that failure doesn't seem like it would leave some teeth on the same gear looking mint, and others completely FUBAR.  

I'm sure everyone understands why the OP is upset, especially since there is a very high likelihood of an Albins-equipped car ending up on the dyno, and there are lots of builders out there that use a dyno for engine break-in.  Could be missing something, but I fully understand the OP's dissatisfaction.  

 
I agree.

I recently bought a 2020 Camry Hybrid LE and it cost $26,000. For that price, it includes 2 yrs of free service and a very comprehensive, generous bumper to bumper warranty.

I'm sure an Albins transaxle costs a bit more than the Camry and I'm a little surprised that it doesn't come with some sort of warranty. This transaxle failed roughly before the engine was broken in. If this had happened to a 002 transaxle or a 2D or even an S4 trans, I could kinda write it off as "oh well, stuff happens, they're not the strongest tranny around" but the Albins has a reputation for being the strongest. People pay a lot more money to make sure they bought the most reliable tranny, but a failure like this makes it look like a crap shoot - no matter how much a customer pays, it might blow up almost immediately and you're on your own.

I know these are off road toys, but this thing barely made it off the dyno. Yikes!

 
Weddle warranty,

I guess they are saying this transaxle was the best they can build, all parts were good, and assembly was perfect.  $hee$h!

https://weddleindustries.com/terms-service

Warranty
Weddle Industries distributes products from many top manufacturers worldwide and it is our goal to provide excellent quality parts to our customers. If, at the time of sale, you are not satisfied with the quality of a product you purchase from us, we may, at our discretion, replace the product or issue a refund. However WE MAKE NO WARRANTY, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, WITH RESPECT TO THE INSTALLATION OR USE OF THE PRODUCTS WE SELL. WE ASSUME NO OBLIGATION WITH RESPECT TO THESE PRODUCTS, EXCEPT FOR A PERIOD OF ONE YEAR FROM THE DATE OF SALE, TO REPAIR OR REPLACE ONLY THE PARTS THAT WE SUPPLY, IF UPON OUR INSPECTION, THEY APPEAR TO HAVE BEEN CORRECTLY INSTALLED, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABUSED OR USED FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN THEIR INTENDED APPLICATION, AND ARE DEFECTIVE IN MATERIAL OR WORKMANSHIP. IN NO EVENT SHALL WEDDLE INDUSTRIES BE LIABLE FOR ANY INJURY, LOSS, DAMAGE, OR INCONVENIENCE ARISING DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY FROM THE INSTALLATION OF THESE PARTS, OR FOR THE INABILITY TO INSTALL OR USE SAID PARTS.

 
I do want to make sure everyone understands that this transaxle come from Albins, distributed through Weddle. I in no way hold them responsible for the failure.  They didnt build it.

They are however the only ones that can warranty anything through Ablins and therefore are brought to the firing range.

I appreciate Sean spending all the time he has here, on the phone and email trying to make this right. unfortunately for me there are factors out of everyone's control.

I did just get a text from another builder (THANK YOU!) that had the pictures of my gears looked at by his trans supplier. He concurred that it is an oil issue!!

What was expressed is the Kendall additives are not up to the task. I was told do not run Lucas, Kendall or Royal purple at all. Lat, redline or Maxima only! This trans builder is recommending Lat 250!

This is all very good information that I wish I would have known before hand. And I certainly hope it helps someone else in the future!

 
Well the trans showed up a week or so ago while I was away fishing, but I got some time last night to un wrap it and get it ready to install. Weddle did a great job of wrapping it and protecting it.

had a couple buddies come up this morning and after a few hours we were back together and running! Excited to get it back on the sand in a couple weeks!

Oh and the car got some new nikes for the street. My neighbors are going to love me! 🤣🤣

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