Albins carnage

Sorry gents I headed out to a fishing tournament and left you hanging...

Weddle said it was in fact an oil issue. They installed 140wt oil which is adequate, however they now recommend 190 wt.

It did not have a trans pump installed. And if in fact it was an oil issue, I’m going to guess that it was from wheeling uphill... otherwise I can’t make sense of it.

I have a pump coming back with the trans..

And no it was not cheap in any way... 😬

 
Justgetnby said:
Sorry gents I headed out to a fishing tournament and left you hanging...

Weddle said it was in fact an oil issue. They installed 140wt oil which is adequate, however they now recommend 190 wt.

It did not have a trans pump installed. And if in fact it was an oil issue, I’m going to guess that it was from wheeling uphill... otherwise I can’t make sense of it.

I have a pump coming back with the trans..

And no it was not cheap in any way... 😬
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That doesn't sound like you should be responsible. 

 
Definitely a bad day and looks like more  lack of oil than and oil weight issue - there was some serious het there  and it took away the heat treat from looks of the gears ....

glad this time it won't happen again  - expensive lesson for who ever filled the oil if its the wrong oil or just for not having a pump  😞

 
So to be clear and maybe help the next guy, your saying this Albins didnt have a pump on it?  How did that get missed?  I run the 190W in mine and the second the key comes on the transpump (noisy bastard) starts pumping.

 
r3meyer said:
So to be clear and maybe help the next guy, your saying this Albins didnt have a pump on it?  How did that get missed?  I run the 190W in mine and the second the key comes on the transpump (noisy bastard) starts pumping.
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Plenty of Albins out there not running a pump. Your pump really should be on a thermo switch so it comes on when the fluid reaches 150°. Diff fluid being too cold isn't good for the trans. It's also really hard on the pump trying to push cold fluid around, which may be why your is so noisy. 

 
L.R.S. said:
Plenty of Albins out there not running a pump. Your pump really should be on a thermo switch so it comes on when the fluid reaches 150°. Diff fluid being too cold isn't good for the trans. It's also really hard on the pump trying to push cold fluid around, which may be why your is so noisy. 
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Oddly enough the reason my gears were destroyed the first time is much like this post.  The gear stack got hot from the pump not turning on from a failed thermal switch.    Cut the thermal switch out and now its a key on event.  Even being cold and thick, a Diaphragm pump will still move fluid to the top of the trans its just noisy.  It quiets down after a little heat.  

I honestly didn't know there were guys out there not running pumps.  For a dune car that seems like a horrible idea.

 
r3meyer said:
So to be clear and maybe help the next guy, your saying this Albins didnt have a pump on it?  How did that get missed?  I run the 190W in mine and the second the key comes on the transpump (noisy bastard) starts pumping.
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The trans pump was asked for but not part of my original build. 
Like was mentioned in posts after this, they recommend them coming on after 150 degrees. I have a trans temp display on my screen at all times. I’ve never seen over 95 degree trans temps so it would not have come on anyhow.

I too am going to install one without the temp switch.

If that is the only way to make these survive a sand car they should be standard I agree. 
I never ran a trans pump in any car prior to this and never had an issue. My pbs was pushed extremely hard and never failed, ever. So why can’t an Albins last without one?

 
r3meyer said:
Oddly enough the reason my gears were destroyed the first time is much like this post.  The gear stack got hot from the pump not turning on from a failed thermal switch.    Cut the thermal switch out and now its a key on event.  Even being cold and thick, a Diaphragm pump will still move fluid to the top of the trans its just noisy.  It quiets down after a little heat.  

I honestly didn't know there were guys out there not running pumps.  For a dune car that seems like a horrible idea.
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Most sand cars by a long ways don’t run pumps. Nor do they fail because of it. Evidently the Albins can’t survive without one though...🤷‍♂️

 
Fullthrottleguy said:
Definitely a bad day and looks like more  lack of oil than and oil weight issue - there was some serious het there  and it took away the heat treat from looks of the gears ....

glad this time it won't happen again  - expensive lesson for who ever filled the oil if its the wrong oil or just for not having a pump  😞
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Certainly not disagreeing with you. But it did in fact have the correct amount of oil in it. 

I can only hope it don’t happen again. No real reason it happened this time so who’s to know it won’t fail again.. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️

 
Justgetnby said:
Certainly not disagreeing with you. But it did in fact have the correct amount of oil in it. 

I can only hope it don’t happen again. No real reason it happened this time so who’s to know it won’t fail again.. 🤷‍♂️🤦‍♂️
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Not saying you did Anything wrong ......I would never assume that ....Believe me I have broken Lots of stuff ....FWIW IMO,  Lack of oil in a splash system can happen even when the oil is full. It relies on the trans being "flat or horizontal" or going through the gears often  - when the gears are engaged so the oil gets thrown around' between the gears - we don't often dune "flat" and this is where pumps are great they get the right amount of oil in the right place for cooling and oil film for pressure.  the sand cars I see that eat gears often fall into 4 areas 1. Way too much power 2. wheelie alot in high gears (oil runs away from gears  3.  Running for long times in same gear (like 2nd)  4. Running wrong or worn out oil (to many heat cycles). 

Pumps and coolers (with fans) are cheap insurance. Like LRS said - you need to thermally control the Pump and cooler fan.  In fact As I learned the expensive way  - warming up your engine is good, but take a hard run on cool trans fluid is not good. In my group we go slow out of camp for a mile or so on cool days to warm the trans before we "get with it". I set the trans pump to come on at 150 and set the fan to come on at 180. I also see some people with external pumps use inadequate line side  - you need -8 lines .  But do all this and treat everything like you care ...and sometimes Stuff happens anyway.. expensive mechanical things break, just ask SpaceX ...

 
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Now I was told that I wouldn’t need a pump. What would be the best practice to make that decision. 

 
Fullthrottleguy said:
Not saying you did Anything wrong ......I would never assume that ....Believe me I have broken Lots of stuff ....FWIW IMO,  Lack of oil in a splash system can happen even when the oil is full. It relies on the trans being "flat or horizontal" or going through the gears often  - when the gears are engaged so the oil gets thrown around' between the gears - we don't often dune "flat" and this is where pumps are great they get the right amount of oil in the right place for cooling and oil film for pressure.  the sand cars I see that eat gears often fall into 4 areas 1. Way too much power 2. wheelie alot in high gears (oil runs away from gears  3.  Running for long times in same gear (like 2nd)  4. Running wrong or worn out oil (to many heat cycles). 

Pumps and coolers (with fans) are cheap insurance. Like LRS said - you need to thermally control the Pump and cooler fan.  In fact As I learned the expensive way  - warming up your engine is good, but take a hard run on cool trans fluid is not good. In my group we go slow out of camp for a mile or so on cool days to warm the trans before we "get with it". I set the trans pump to come on at 150 and set the fan to come on at 180. I also see some people with external pumps use inadequate line side  - you need -8 lines .  But do all this and treat everything like you care ...and sometimes Stuff happens anyway.. expensive mechanical things break, just ask SpaceX ...
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I appreciate you writing this all out. And I agree on all parts.

What I have found by talking with quite a few that run higher horsepower cars with Albins is, they are not running the trans temp control instead running them all the time. Like I had mentioned it another post, I never seen trans temps above 95 degrees. So the pump would never have turned on. I also dont know if there could be a fault in the trans temp installed, but being that it is new I wouldnt think that to be the case.

I appreciate your input!

 
Wrecked said:
Now I was told that I wouldn’t need a pump. What would be the best practice to make that decision. 
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I never needed a pump before either. Nearly 20 years with cars and never did before...

However, if you are running higher horsepower and or wheelie alot, I would just add it and be done. In my case it would have been $700 for a pump, or now $7000 for repairs!!

 
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Justgetnby said:
I appreciate you writing this all out. And I agree on all parts.

What I have found by talking with quite a few that run higher horsepower cars with Albins is, they are not running the trans temp control instead running them all the time. Like I had mentioned it another post, I never seen trans temps above 95 degrees. So the pump would never have turned on. I also dont know if there could be a fault in the trans temp installed, but being that it is new I wouldnt think that to be the case.

I appreciate your input!
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Not saying 95 is not possible, but it seems really low. I am not sure where you are measuring the temp from or what you are using to measure it Admittedly I do a lot of Weddle S4  and S4D cars but I have seen the same 3/4" x 16 Trans switch used on the filler. ON the Weddle (Mendeolas) I wish I could get oil temp below 180 all the time.  One my personal car  I measure trans oil temp and about 10 minutes into every run the trans oil would get above 180, but I was reading the oil temp with the sensor in the oil all the time.  I use the Weddle/Turbowerx exa-pump on every car and I am sure it would blow the fuse if it tried to pump cold 190wt, but maybe not. I think maybe its because I always run a Setrab or CBR Cooler with the pump and they do have some restriction.  I know people run the Tilton diaphragm pump on the differentials dead cold, but they are not geared pumps.. and I am assuming the Fortins with internal pumps run dead cold too.   Have you asked Weddle whether to use a thermal switch or not?

 
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