Redbull Race @ Glamis

[Sand Shark]

I’ve asked this before but I will ask it again. Have any of you guys that own long travel cars, and complain about RZR chop, ever own a standard travel car before long travel cars were built? How about a Honda 90 or Honda 110 before the Honda 250r came out? Just wondering how far back you guys go. You know, back when the dunes were smooth til how they are now.

I find if you have your suspension set up and tuned correctly you really don't feel the chop or chatter bumps.  I was out there all weekend and never had an issue.  Of course my suspension is tuned by Tom Morris, which is one of the best when it comes to the Can Am X3.  LOL!

 

[Sand Shark]

Also... is anybody actually sure it's "RZR chop" not just "eleventeen beeliondy people are going to Glamis again, and living there" chop?  The improvements in SxSs do mean more people are out duning and reaching more points, instead of just sitting at the hill.  But how do we "know" that SxSs create the chop... not anything else?  And if it the SxSs, is it because of their design/poor setup or just a consequence of how many there are?  I suppose it doesn't matter either way...

-TJ

The little chatter bumps are for sure from SXSs.   They did not exist back in the day when it was quads, dirt bikes and long travel rails.  Even in the days of the Rhino and RZR 800 they did not exist.  Started showing up as more and more SXSs started hitting the dunes. 

 

[MWB]

The little chatter bumps are for sure from SXSs.   They did not exist back in the day when it was quads, dirt bikes and long travel rails.  Even in the days of the Rhino and RZR 800 they did not exist.  Started showing up as more and more SXSs started hitting the dunes. 

The little chatter bumps I was told were because of people not running matched tires in four wheel drive.  They were bad this weekend though. I couldn't imagine being on a quad in them.  

 

[kazuaki]

My opinion is the bumps are from SxS's running in 2WD and getting wheel hop.  I've seen it happen in some areas as I was parked watching.  One night I sat at Olds in an area that was somewhat uphill (near the far left side).  As traffic in the aisle backed up, one after another I watched SxS's get stuck by burying their back tires. It was weird, like some SxS drivers don't know they have 4WD? Those in 4WD had no issue.  Those in 2WD that made it, left behind those chatter bumps.  I guess I must be in the minority that prefers 4WD when duning.

 

[ANGRYBUTTCRACK]

My opinion is the bumps are from SxS's running in 2WD and getting wheel hop.  I've seen it happen in some areas as I was parked watching.  One night I sat at Olds in an area that was somewhat uphill (near the far left side).  As traffic in the aisle backed up, one after another I watched SxS's get stuck by burying their back tires. It was weird, like some SxS drivers don't know they have 4WD? Those in 4WD had no issue.  Those in 2WD that made it, left behind those chatter bumps.  I guess I must be in the minority that prefers 4WD when duning.

I'm with you.. I can't understand why folks don't run them in 4wd. I do 100% of the time.

Only time I've done 2WD is to show off and do a donut and I got it on 2 wheels once.. no actually twice.. once at KOH and once near that Tiki thing in Glamis...  both times doing that..  I almost put it on it's lid... overcorrected, saved it.. was on 2 wheels one side,.. followed by 2 wheels on the other side (but not a couple inches from the ground)... Both times trying to be cool.. I was almost 'the tool!'

The performance and control goes up significantly in 4WD... tracks so nice.

abc

 

[Rockwood]

Also... is anybody actually sure it's "RZR chop" not just "eleventeen beeliondy people are going to Glamis again, and living there" chop?  The improvements in SxSs do mean more people are out duning and reaching more points, instead of just sitting at the hill.  But how do we "know" that SxSs create the chop... not anything else?  And if it the SxSs, is it because of their design/poor setup or just a consequence of how many there are?  I suppose it doesn't matter either way...

-TJ

It's everywhere.  Not just Glamis, and it started around 5 years ago.  No clue exactly what's causing it, but I suspect it's the 20psi most SxS guys run on a 1500lb vehicle for some reason.

My opinion is the bumps are from SxS's running in 2WD and getting wheel hop.  I've seen it happen in some areas as I was parked watching.  One night I sat at Olds in an area that was somewhat uphill (near the far left side).  As traffic in the aisle backed up, one after another I watched SxS's get stuck by burying their back tires. It was weird, like some SxS drivers don't know they have 4WD? Those in 4WD had no issue.  Those in 2WD that made it, left behind those chatter bumps.  I guess I must be in the minority that prefers 4WD when duning.

They didn't exist when literally everything was 2WD (or 1WD) in the dunes.  

SxSs in general also don't have a lot of floatation compared to everything else except dirt bikes.

 

[tjZ06]

SxSs in general also don't have a lot of floatation compared to everything else except dirt bikes.

IDK... I run a 1300 Padla Trak on the back of my XPT on a 10" width rim.  It's a ~30" tall tire and I run it low, 8-12psi depending on the sand.  The front is a partially shaved Desert Trak, obviously narrower and also on a narrower rim (8") but still pretty good flotation.  I also don't think I get much, if any wheelhop in the sand in 2wd with it... but I have a true dual rate Eibach spring setup with an actual cross-over (vs. the stock collapsed "tender" setup) as well as custom valving on the Fox Internal Bypass shocks.  If I run dirt tires on the RZR (which I did all last season) I run in 4wd more and I also go lower pressure by a bit, though the dirt setup I have for it isn't a beadlock (the sands are) so I don't go super low. 

-TJ

 

[kazuaki]

They didn't exist when literally everything was 2WD (or 1WD) in the dunes.  

SxSs in general also don't have a lot of floatation compared to everything else except dirt bikes.

I haven't really seen anything but SxS's and trucks that aren't aired down with wheel hop in the sand. It's not that 2WD causes them directly, it's that running a SxS in 2WD seems to sometimes cause wheel hop and thus the bumps.  I could be way off, but this is just what I've noticed first hand.

 

[Sand Shark]

I really want to go out and check out this event.  Should be a lot of fun.

 

[Sand Shark]

It's everywhere.  Not just Glamis, and it started around 5 years ago.  No clue exactly what's causing it, but I suspect it's the 20psi most SxS guys run on a 1500lb vehicle for some reason.

They didn't exist when literally everything was 2WD (or 1WD) in the dunes.  

SxSs in general also don't have a lot of floatation compared to everything else except dirt bikes.

The chatter bumps are everywhere these days.  In the sand I run 10-12psi in the tires.  In the dirt my BFG UTV tires work best at 18-20psi. 

UTVs have good floatation in the sand as long as you are not running a narrow dirt tire.  I think people just mast the throttle in some spots versus using momentum and rolling it the throttle and this creates those bumps. 

 

[77charger]

SxS definitely make their bumps. You can watch a group go over fresh sand and you will see the formation starting out. Seems it’s worse in slight climbs. 
 

been going to glamis for 36 years yes big heavy buggies make whoops too but they are further spaced apart.seen lots of changes over the years and the biggest is the cluelessness out there now with new drivers just happens to be most are in SxS. 

 

[Rockwood]

IDK... I run a 1300 Padla Trak on the back of my XPT on a 10" width rim.  It's a ~30" tall tire and I run it low, 8-12psi depending on the sand.  The front is a partially shaved Desert Trak, obviously narrower and also on a narrower rim (8") but still pretty good flotation.  I also don't think I get much, if any wheelhop in the sand in 2wd with it... but I have a true dual rate Eibach spring setup with an actual cross-over (vs. the stock collapsed "tender" setup) as well as custom valving on the Fox Internal Bypass shocks.  If I run dirt tires on the RZR (which I did all last season) I run in 4wd more and I also go lower pressure by a bit, though the dirt setup I have for it isn't a beadlock (the sands are) so I don't go super low. 

-TJ

Even your setup, which is large for a SxS, is the smallest paddle run by ACVWs in the 80s/90s. :biggrin:

I haven't really seen anything but SxS's and trucks that aren't aired down with wheel hop in the sand. It's not that 2WD causes them directly, it's that running a SxS in 2WD seems to sometimes cause wheel hop and thus the bumps.  I could be way off, but this is just what I've noticed first hand.

Most likely the air pressure more than 2WD.  Wife's X3 at 8psi has only lost the bead once (Skats, landed a jump sideways), never hops.

The chatter bumps are everywhere these days.  In the sand I run 10-12psi in the tires.  In the dirt my BFG UTV tires work best at 18-20psi. 

UTVs have good floatation in the sand as long as you are not running a narrow dirt tire.  I think people just mast the throttle in some spots versus using momentum and rolling it the throttle and this creates those bumps. 

UTVs have a lot less floatation than almost every buggy out there.  "Big" setup on a lot are Blackhawks or 32" Skat, which are tall, but significantly narrower than what buggies have been running since the 80s.  

 

[Big_Daddy_Jp]

Here is a theory I have. I camp mostly in the south dunes. For the most part, it’s not choppy in the dunes. There isn’t a bunch of whoops going around the bowls or dunes either. We also don’t have near the traffic as out at Glamis. So maybe it is possible that a SXS is creating it but mainly because of the gazillion people that are out there with them? I do remember moons ago driving over to Glamis from Gordon’s in our old school cars and getting completely beat up driving down the sand highway near Ghecko. It was nowhere near as choppy at Gordon’s and this was before SXS’s were even around. I still think it has more to do with the amount of people per square foot.

 

[Rockwood]

SxS definitely make their bumps. You can watch a group go over fresh sand and you will see the formation starting out. Seems it’s worse in slight climbs. 
 

been going to glamis for 36 years yes big heavy buggies make whoops too but they are further spaced apart.seen lots of changes over the years and the biggest is the cluelessness out there now with new drivers just happens to be most are in SxS. 

Everything makes whoops, if there's enough traffic. :biggrin:

Not many heavy long travels in 1990, yet Olds still had them:

 

[Sand Shark]

Even your setup, which is large for a SxS, is the smallest paddle run by ACVWs in the 80s/90s. :biggrin:

Most likely the air pressure more than 2WD.  Wife's X3 at 8psi has only lost the bead once (Skats, landed a jump sideways), never hops.

UTVs have a lot less floatation than almost every buggy out there.  "Big" setup on a lot are Blackhawks or 32" Skat, which are tall, but significantly narrower than what buggies have been running since the 80s.  

LOL!   Some run a wider Paddla 1300 on their SXS, but you are correct the rear paddles on a SXS are narrower.  

At 8psi my paddle tires would be really spongy feeling. 

 

[Rockwood]

LOL!   Some run a wider Paddla 1300 on their SXS, but you are correct the rear paddles on a SXS are narrower.  

At 8psi my paddle tires would be really spongy feeling. 

LOL, Padla 1300 was for 1000lb ACVWs, not 200+hp 1500-2000lb buggy in a box. :biggrin:

And yeah. Sidewalls come into it.  You're running Skats again right?

 

[Rockwood]

Could also be the odd fring order run by the parallel twin RZRs:

 

[77charger]

31 minutes ago, Rockwood said:

Everything makes whoops, if there's enough traffic. :biggrin:

Not many heavy long travels in 1990, yet Olds still had them:

Yes all make whoops SxS makes the chatter wheel hop bumps. 

 

[Sand Shark]

LOL, Padla 1300 was for 1000lb ACVWs, not 200+hp 1500-2000lb buggy in a box. :biggrin:

And yeah. Sidewalls come into it.  You're running Skats again right?

LOL!  Those Padla tires supposedly work really well.   Yeah I am running the Sandcraft Destoyer Skat set up.  

 

[FOG]

I think I have the scientific reason for the dune chop.
The wheel hop chop is caused by the SxS with the rubber band.  As the band stretches and collapses the power is applied unevenly to the wheels causing the chop.
Want smoother dunes,

Ban the Band!