More Legislation Requiring Vaccines

Surf and Dune said:
 Please explain to me how a private citizen can "force" someone to get vaccinated? I was always under the impression that private business owners and employees engaged in a mutually agreed contract ? I guess that's where we differ. You feel that working for a privately owned business is a right. That's a very Progressive position....
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Yes. Mutually agreed contract.

Then one of them UNILATERALLY decides that the other one must get vaccinated in order to keep his job, feed his family. He changed the terms of employment, AFTER hiring the employee for the job.

What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if the employee's wife was the one with cancer and he decided to force everyone else at work to get vaccinated?

Does that work the same way?

Does it occur to you that the underlying principle for the SCOTUS decision is that everyone has control of their own bodies, their own medical procedures. An employer doesn't have the right to mandate that an employee must undergo a medical procedure in order to keep their job. The gov't doesn't have that power and neither does a private employer.

As an employer, can you tell one of your employees to get an abortion? I think you're smart enough to see where this is going. Vaccination is also a medical procedure and no employer has that power, regardless of the excuse given to try and demand it.

 
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What we’ve learned in the past 10 years....

An employer can/can’t...

you can force a healthy person to wear a mask

you cannot say a muslim cannot wear a bee keeper uniform

you cannot tell a dood to dress like a man

you cannot in some states refuse to bake a cake

You cannot express a conservative opinion

you cannot disagree with a leftist opinion

you can require id to buy a gun and a vaccine passport to do anything

requiring an id to vote is racist

You cannot check for criminal history when searching for job applicant

you cannot say, that guy was a real pos when a company calls to check a former employees history. You can only say he worked there

drug addicts are just homeless people held down by racist white capitalists

Federalizing elections, and making it so any juan ricardo or hidalgo can vote regardless of citizenship is “voter rights”  and not a monarchy of the majority. 

You cannot tell the truth if it polls bad with democrats

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Yes. Mutually agreed contract.

Then one of them UNILATERALLY decides that the other one must get vaccinated in order to keep his job, feed his family. He changed the terms of employment, AFTER hiring the employee for the job.

What if the shoe was on the other foot? What if the employee's wife was the one with cancer and he decided to force everyone else at work to get vaccinated?

Does that work the same way?

Does it occur to you that the underlying principle for the SCOTUS decision is that everyone has control of their own bodies, their own medical procedures. An employer doesn't have the right to mandate that an employee must undergo a medical procedure in order to keep their job. The gov't doesn't have that power and neither does a private employer.

As an employer, can you tell one of your employees to get an abortion? I think you're smart enough to see where this is going. Vaccination is also a medical procedure and no employer has that power, regardless of the excuse given to try and demand it.
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 The SCOTUS opinion had to do with the Feds mandating vaccinations for companies with over 100 employees, which I have agreed with from day one. I don't thinks the Feds should have that power over private business's. I don't think there is a perfect answer to the issue. You and I could both give solid examples to back our points of view that the other would have a hard time arguing against. I am not even saying that I agree that its good policy for any private company to require their employees to get vaxed. My point is that nobody has the RIGHT to a job. You take that job willingly, and if you don't like the conditions, then leave and start your own business, or go to another company that has an atmosphere that suits you. 

 
Surf and Dune said:
 The SCOTUS opinion had to do with the Feds mandating vaccinations for companies with over 100 employees, which I have agreed with from day one. I don't thinks the Feds should have that power over private business's. I don't think there is a perfect answer to the issue. You and I could both give solid examples to back our points of view that the other would have a hard time arguing against. I am not even saying that I agree that its good policy for any private company to require their employees to get vaxed. My point is that nobody has the RIGHT to a job. You take that job willingly, and if you don't like the conditions, then leave and start your own business, or go to another company that has an atmosphere that suits you. 
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As all of the experts are pointing out, this is the "Mass Resignation" of the employee. At no other point in history have so many Americans quit their jobs, for various reasons. Many companies are desperate to fill their positions and employees are now being very choosey about which jobs they take. Now is probably not the best time for an employer to demand people get vaccinated.

Back to jobs and vaccine mandates. True, no one has a right to a job, but more importantly, the Constitution prohibits the gov't from mandating that people get vaccinated against their will. 

If the gov't doesn't have the authority to demand that people get vaccinated to keep their jobs, what kind of logic says that one private citizen has the right to mandate that another private citizen must get vaccinated to keep their job?

The last I heard, employees got paid to go to work, that's it. The employer doesn't have any say about their private life or the right to even ask if they're gay, much less fire them for being gay. When it comes to a person's medical status or medical record, that is also private, which includes their vaccination status.

I know a guy who is a county employee whose boss told him to get vaccinated and to report to work dealing with the public. His doctor has written numerous letters to the guy's dept. head explaining that due to his compromised immune system, he will not allow his patient to be vaccinated nor forced to work with the public. The dept. is using a county provided attorney to force the issue and the county provided an attorney to the employee. So far they've had something like 3 hearings and in all 3 hearings the employee's attorney has been winning based on constitutional grounds. So far, it's been a huge waste of county money and it's not over yet. In this guy's case, according to his doctor either getting vaxxed or catching covid would be a death sentence.

The point is, they're not arguing over this based on who he works for - his attorney has so far successfully argued it's a violation of his constitutional rights and his doctor claims it's sure death.

 
Surf and Dune said:
 I said that I support PRIVATE employers having the right to set rules for their business. You're a Christian baker and you don't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding? That should be your choice. You're gay and don't want to bake for a Christian. straight wedding? Your choice. You own a hardware store and don't want your cashier wearing a burka? You set the dress code. Lets say hypothetically speaking, a guy that builds engines, has 6 employees, and his wife is at home fighting cancer and would pretty much be sure to die if she got sick. He feels that although he is a card carrying good ole boy that doesn't believe in mandates, votes conservative, has a sick collection of guns, etc. that even if its a miniscule chance that getting vaxed, and that telling his employees that as much as he hates to do it, they need to get vaxed because HE thinks it might be best for his situation, I believe he should have that right. His employees can either go along or sadly look for another job. Its not that I support anyone losing their jobs, its just think that its a slippery slope when the Government or courts can interfere with a voluntary contract between a employer and employee. I've owned my own business for over 30 years now, and I would never mandate that the people I work with get vaxed, but if I wanted to, I should have that right or they can work for someone else. BTW, most hospitals, including the one my wife works at, have mandated the common flu shot, or wearing a mask for a long time. 
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As much as I hate some of the rules, you're right... can't have it both ways.(well, we can't anyway :lol:  )

 
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well what about NYC requiring kid to be vaccinated to go to school, restaurant , public parks. you cant do anything in NYC without a vaccine passport. even thou the fed cant mandate the local govt is

 
ANGRYBUTTCRACK said:
True dat … hate that my 4 kids are trying to navigate life in this ‘new world.’

abc

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Speaking of work and a "new world", how about AT WILL employees trying to leave for another job and not being "allowed" to until their current position is filled - and the current employee refused to offer them more money to keep them to stay when they gave notice?

Part of the reason the current company gives for not allowing them to leave is COVID

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/health/2022/01/20/thedacare-ascension-go-court-over-stroke-trauma-employee-hires/6595232001/

And the article stating that the judge granted the companies request:

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/

 

 
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luvdunin said:
Speaking of work and a "new world", how about AT WILL employees trying to leave for another job and not being "allowed" to until their current position is filled - and the current employee refused to offer them more money to keep them to stay when they gave notice?

Part of the reason the current company gives for not allowing them to leave is COVID

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/health/2022/01/20/thedacare-ascension-go-court-over-stroke-trauma-employee-hires/6595232001/

And the article stating that the judge granted the companies request:

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/

 
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That is CRAZY. At will employees being told they can't quit and work somewhere else???

 
luvdunin said:
Speaking of work and a "new world", how about AT WILL employees trying to leave for another job and not being "allowed" to until their current position is filled - and the current employee refused to offer them more money to keep them to stay when they gave notice?

Part of the reason the current company gives for not allowing them to leave is COVID

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/health/2022/01/20/thedacare-ascension-go-court-over-stroke-trauma-employee-hires/6595232001/

And the article stating that the judge granted the companies request:

https://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2022/01/21/what-we-know-ascension-thedacare-court-battle-over-employees/6607417001/

 
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How about GFY.  They quit.  That's how jobs work.  Are they going to be imprisoned if they leave?  Guess what shthole Thedracare, you are still out the majority of your staff.

 
Kraut_n_Rice said:
To not further derail ABC's thread about his wife.....

Defense Medical Epidemiology Database (DMED)  Scrubbed by DOD over illness increases in 2021

Data is 2016-2021.  Huge increases in 2021, but what changed?...

https://www.truthforhealth.org/2022/02/dod-dmed-data-proves-theyve-known-theyre-poisoning-the-military/
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I mentioned this somewhere in all this.

While in the military, I nearly died taking the anthrax vaccine.  It was a 6 shot series with annual boosters.  Granted, the vaccine they gave was said to be the same vaccine they give meat packers and farm workers, just more of them.  Those people only get one and then a "booster" many years later.  I was granted a medical exclusion which was absolutely unheard of at the time.

So...this keep leading me to, if the powers that be keep pushing people to take more and more jabs, against the same "bug" so soon, this is not a bug, this is a bioweapon.  There is proof out there they were working on "gain of function" research in Wuhan, being funded by the US...since it was deemed unethical to do it here in the states.

 
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