Would you buy this?

Always liked the XX. Had a ride in one that had a 78" LT( I think) and turbo. Very nice car. Didn't like the engine at high rpm when cruising, very annoying. If they would do development on the car and have better than AC quality I would consider it at a their price point.
 
@NIKAL appreciate all the insight as always. When you started this thread it sounded like a new platform with similar designs to the XX and Speed not a remodel, but of course this thread got derailed and down the Textron rabbit hole. I asked about the RGM patents for this new platform idea and how they'd get over the hurdle of those items. You mentioned the suspension and the same components from the XX but with a different body persy.

I know that JEHC had some designs going for a couple of chassis, got in the RGM battle (for a C1 and TT design) and he hasn't mentioned those at all for a while. I'm not nearly connected or informed as I once was. I spoke to JEHC at the offroad show, that rig he had on display at the black widow exhaust booth was unreal!

Let hear more about this new platform you started the thread with.
 
Dune-Track-N said:
@NIKAL appreciate all the insight as always. When you started this thread it sounded like a new platform with similar designs to the XX and Speed not a remodel, but of course this thread got derailed and down the Textron rabbit hole. I asked about the RGM patents for this new platform idea and how they'd get over the hurdle of those items. You mentioned the suspension and the same components from the XX but with a different body persy.

I know that JEHC had some designs going for a couple of chassis, got in the RGM battle (for a C1 and TT design) and he hasn't mentioned those at all for a while. I'm not nearly connected or informed as I once was. I spoke to JEHC at the offroad show, that rig he had on display at the black widow exhaust booth was unreal!

Let hear more about this new platform you started the thread with.
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I mentioned the patents on post 18, and speculated that RGM probably gets nothing from those as part of the terms of the AC release contract. I could be wrong, but TR brought up one time about them not getting royalties, but that they won their court case. Which has since been overturned. Also most of the patents I would guess could be overturned as prior art could be found to show it was available prior to RG’s patents. From my understanding several brands have made things that could infringe on the Speed patents, and as far as I know no lawsuits of come if those. I honestly think if anther established brand was to buy Arctic Cat, RG or his patents would be the least of the issues.

As far as the hypothetical car I mentioned. It has to do with a potential buyer of Arctic Cat, and how with a few changes, the XX could be even a better UTV, and could fill a segment that could use a great designed UTV with a bit more power, which would entice more buyers. Plus I’m not sure Yamaha will want to continue to support the brand & car, as a big part of the deal was due to the fact the two parties had a relationship on the snowmobile div which Yamaha has ended and withdrew from selling snowmobiles.

I just hope a new buyer decides to keep the XX platform and not scrap it, for another radius rod designed car. Plus would also help those who currently own the Wild Cat XX as far as some parts go.
 
oh for sure, my hope was that they updated the motor trans package with the rotax turbo engine
pure speculation... not sure how long yamaha will keep the triple going, they have used it for so long with multiple variations including the XX. I just can't see them growing the genesis platform any further then the current sidewinder turbo
 
Dune-Track-N said:
oh for sure, my hope was that they updated the motor trans package with the rotax turbo engine
pure speculation... not sure how long yamaha will keep the triple going, they have used it for so long with multiple variations including the XX. I just can't see them growing the genesis platform any further then the current sidewinder turbo
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Only way your getting a Rotax is through Can Am. BRP who is Can Am owns Rotax. Rotax does build and supply motors to other companies, but a few years ago I was told that Rotax will not sell to any competitor brands in the Powersports industry.

But I do agree that would be a killer engine. I’d love to see a Rotax in a Speed car. A Rotax power plant, & BRP trans & clutching would be a literal game changer for that car.

Textron bought a company called Weber motors years ago. I think they have since changed it to Textron motors? But they are a German designed engine and were great engines, originally design for marine use. I thought eventually Textron would have put a Weber/Textron engine in the XX, as they owned both. But Textron never did anything with either company.
 
ah, dang you're right weber engine not rotax
the 750 and 850 weber make more power then the yamaha
 
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Not sure how many remember the Arctic Cat Havoc X? It was probably the first true crossover utility sport UTV. It was wider then its predecessor and came with 2.5 King Shocks. The engine was built by Weber. (MPE 1000 (957cc) twin cylinder liquid-cooled SOHC 8 valve 4-stroke) it was a dry sump motor, and a guy from the LA area was a Weber engine service dealer and when Textron bought AC, they asked him to be a AC dealer. He told me that engine was detuned to 100 hp and that in stock form it was capable of 130-140 hp. This was in 2018, when Polaris was the king of N/A motors at 110hp. He said that Weber engine was built for marine, and had some very cool features, like removable cylinders. He’s the first person to tell me he expected Textron to move all Arctic Cat UTV’s to a Weber engine as it only made sense as they owned both. But as we all know the Havoc X was dropped a year later, and Textron did nothing with the XX, and actually eliminated all UTV’s in their line up except for the XX, and they kept a crappy utility model.
 
NIKAL said:
Not sure how many remember the Arctic Cat Havoc X? It was probably the first true crossover utility sport UTV. It was wider then its predecessor and came with 2.5 King Shocks. The engine was built by Weber. (MPE 1000 (957cc) twin cylinder liquid-cooled SOHC 8 valve 4-stroke) it was a dry sump motor, and a guy from the LA area was a Weber engine service dealer and when Textron bought AC, they asked him to be a AC dealer. He told me that engine was detuned to 100 hp and that in stock form it was capable of 130-140 hp. This was in 2018, when Polaris was the king of N/A motors at 110hp. He said that Weber engine was built for marine, and had some very cool features, like removable cylinders. He’s the first person to tell me he expected Textron to move all Arctic Cat UTV’s to a Weber engine as it only made sense as they owned both. But as we all know the Havoc X was dropped a year later, and Textron did nothing with the XX, and actually eliminated all UTV’s in their line up except for the XX, and they kept a crappy utility model.
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We were anxious to get the Havoc when they were announced, but they were rolled out with Team primaries that had the typical terrible Team QC issues, as usual. The seating position, inherited from the Stampede that it was based on, made it very uncomfortable with the bucket seats they simply mounted where the bench was. The E-Z-Go morons really phoned it in on that one. We did anticipate they would go to Weber power in everything, but they were too busy patting themselves on the back to notice what dealers and customers were asking for.
 
It always surprised me the PREDATOR X18 INTIMIDATOR with its 2.2 Ecotec mor at 170hp was not more popular.

Too big? they weighed under 2k pounds, had a CVT and could be supercharged, etc. All the travel you could want, just no front wheel drive, that i could remember.

The Weber motor talk made me think of that SXS/Car, was it the bigger Joyner's that had the Weber motors too?
 
the Predator was a Desert Dynamics design too, they were cool but the trans/belt and no 4x4 didn't go so well
just like Joyners V8 sandrail, the other joyners I looked at had the 3cyl chevy or suzuki motor if I recall
 
Joyners ran a Chery engine. Same or similar to what is currently used by John Deere Gator, Kawi Mule, Arctic Cat Prowler Pro.
 
Crusty said:
It always surprised me the PREDATOR X18 INTIMIDATOR with its 2.2 Ecotec mor at 170hp was not more popular.

Too big? they weighed under 2k pounds, had a CVT and could be supercharged, etc. All the travel you could want, just no front wheel drive, that i could remember.

The Weber motor talk made me think of that SXS/Car, was it the bigger Joyner's that had the Weber motors too?
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The Predator was a fun car but was really heavy. I always thought it would be a great car with a turbo Honda / 2d trans.

The Weber motor was used in the Redline Revolt / Riot.
 
Hondajimz said:
The Predator was a fun car but was really heavy. I always thought it would be a great car with a turbo Honda / 2d trans.

The Weber motor was used in the Redline Revolt / Riot.
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Long story, but the guy that owned Predator. He had two 4 seat Predators made. I don’t remember the whole story on them? A few years later I stumbled upon one and I almost bought it. It was sort of a Frankenstein, not because it was a 4 seater, but because it was based on the X18, but the rear was set up like the later Gen 2 race version that had a transaxle. It had a 091 bus box and the 2.2 ecotec.
 
I've talked to many people, all with different brands of UTV's. The owners of the Wildcat XX cars have more good things to say about these cars drive than any other brand.

The car itself had a good base design, but like most all other brands, they found places to cut corners and save cost. Unfortunately that cost cutting affected transaxle (which is actually identical to the Polaris XP Turbo transaxle and made by Team Industries), front diff, steering, water pumps, and a few other odds and ends. But, they have the best suspension design and handle the rough terrain than the other brands.

Most everyone has to spend money on their SxS of choice, whether it be cage, seats, suspension, drivetrain, etc. I think the XX platform has the best base to start with, then spend a little money to make them reliable is not that far out of touch compared to everyone else.

I would say there is still a market for a $25k SxS. Not everyone wants to spend the $35k on a Pro-R or Mav-R.
 
SeanRitchie said:
I've talked to many people, all with different brands of UTV's. The owners of the Wildcat XX cars have more good things to say about these cars drive than any other brand.

The car itself had a good base design, but like most all other brands, they found places to cut corners and save cost. Unfortunately that cost cutting affected transaxle (which is actually identical to the Polaris XP Turbo transaxle and made by Team Industries), front diff, steering, water pumps, and a few other odds and ends. But, they have the best suspension design and handle the rough terrain than the other brands.

Most everyone has to spend money on their SxS of choice, whether it be cage, seats, suspension, drivetrain, etc. I think the XX platform has the best base to start with, then spend a little money to make them reliable is not that far out of touch compared to everyone else.

I would say there is still a market for a $25k SxS. Not everyone wants to spend the $35k on a Pro-R or Mav-R.
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Sean, speaking about the trans being almost identical to the Polaris XP turbo trans. I thought I heard that there were a few gears or shafts that AC discontinued to sell. Is this correct? And if so, could the Polaris version be used, or is Weddle or someone making internal parts for the XX trans?

Also when your shop opens up, will you be able to provide the same upgraded parts that you were doing at Weddle for the XX & other UTV’s?
 
I thought the Weber engine was originally designed to be used in the Redline long travel snow mobile project that eventually turned into Redline buggy's.
I remember the prototypes that I built custom fuel tanks for. It was a cluster for sure, but some cool designs. As far as the xx platform, I agree, it is the best out of the box design for suspension and chassis. I have owned several in all configurations. The RG Bandit is pretty much the newest version of the same platform. Just wish there wasn't so much drama. I think if someone came along and bought the AC wildcat xx platform and made it 72" wide with 220 to 270 HP in the mid $20k range, That would be the "Game Changer"
 
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