Wild

Cookie said:
No idea if Social Media brings more people or not, but it certainly glorifies the stupidness.

I started going to the dunes in 1990, Comp was insane and entertaining. But I had already been off roading for nearly 20 years before that, I was taught how to camp and off road responsibly before I every went to the sand.

The debauchery isn't just at Glamis, it is everywhere now, the lack of respect for everything will eventually get it all closed down and the next generation will only have Disneyland for fun...........Sorry for my Friday morning rant, back to regular schedule programming.
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When is the last time you went to Disneyland?
 
It’s interesting because we deal with something very similar in the boating world for events that take place on the water..

If you do anything on the water and there is a point A to point B.. then you need permits, safety boats, insurance etc..

Is there a list of people? Or is it a registration list? Is there any entry fee? A scheduled of events?

Is there a t shirt?

Any or all of those things could trigger the need for a permit, except there isn’t any real hard rules that I have ever read that specifically says what does or doesn’t trigger it?

This past weekend was the annual “Dam Run”. It has been going on forever and it’s a bunch of rdp members and members from other groups that all just go and make the run from Katherine’s to Hoover Dam and back.

As a joke the post always starts with something like “The zec comm committee has decided that this year there will again be no t shirt, or schedule” etc..

And every single year (except weirdly this year) I get a phone call from the coast guard and told I need permits or I am going to face fines etc.. every single year I tell them “it’s not my event, point in fact it’s not even an actual event..”.

Then we go through the well who’s is it, and how do we get ahold of them.. and I tell them again it isn’t an actual event and if ya truly want to talk to who originally organized it you are going to need a priest because he passed away and now people just do it every year.

A few years ago the person was pretty overboard and actually said he was gonna come after me because it was promoted on my platform.

That was an interesting conversation to say the least which led into title 2 protections and ended with “I’m not even going this year soooo?” lol.

It would be interesting to see what the actual verbiage is with regard to a get together cs a full on event for the sand.

RD
 
Quick funny story about one of the first events I ever did twenty plus years ago..

We did a big raft up in a cove.. everybody and I mean everybody was going to this thing (for as big as the online boating communities were at the time). Hell the food boat in Thompson bay billy burgers pulled anchor and was going to it..

The cops stopped him and told him to turn his ass around.. lol

Anyhow I had gone out to one of the further boats out in the cove and was having beers with a buddy when the coastguard boat rolls up, and the guy looks right at me and says who’s RiverDave?? We need to talk to him. Now bear in mind I boated in Parker and rarely came to Havasu back then.. and I have and always live by the motto “whatever they gotta say I don’t wanna hear it.”

So I tell the guy “oh he just went for a ride in a boat he went that way! It is a conquest deckboat that’s blue and grey”. They take off in hot pursuit, I rally up the people that came with me and left.. lol

Monday morning I’m at my shop and the phone rings and it’s the coast guard. I say how can I help you? The guy on the other end says “we know.. we know it was you that told the guy etc”.

Of course I deny it, got one of those common faces and am often mistook for other people. It basically ended with if it happens again they were gonna put the screws to me deluxe.

RD
 
RiverDave said:
It’s interesting because we deal with something very similar in the boating world for events that take place on the water..

If you do anything on the water and there is a point A to point B.. then you need permits, safety boats, insurance etc..

Is there a list of people? Or is it a registration list? Is there any entry fee? A scheduled of events?

Is there a t shirt?

Any or all of those things could trigger the need for a permit, except there isn’t any real hard rules that I have ever read that specifically says what does or doesn’t trigger it?

This past weekend was the annual “Dam Run”. It has been going on forever and it’s a bunch of rdp members and members from other groups that all just go and make the run from Katherine’s to Hoover Dam and back.

As a joke the post always starts with something like “The zec comm committee has decided that this year there will again be no t shirt, or schedule” etc..

And every single year (except weirdly this year) I get a phone call from the coast guard and told I need permits or I am going to face fines etc.. every single year I tell them “it’s not my event, point in fact it’s not even an actual event..”.

Then we go through the well who’s is it, and how do we get ahold of them.. and I tell them again it isn’t an actual event and if ya truly want to talk to who originally organized it you are going to need a priest because he passed away and now people just do it every year.

A few years ago the person was pretty overboard and actually said he was gonna come after me because it was promoted on my platform.

That was an interesting conversation to say the least which led into title 2 protections and ended with “I’m not even going this year soooo?” lol.

It would be interesting to see what the actual verbiage is with regard to a get together cs a full on event for the sand.

RD
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www.blm.gov

Permits and Passes: Special Recreation Permits | Bureau of Land Management

Special Recreation PermitsSpecial Recreation Permits are issued to businesses, organizations, and individuals to allow the use of specific public land and related waters for commercial, competitive, and organized group use.Special Recreation Permits allow the land stewards to coordinate and...
www.blm.gov www.blm.gov

Raptor Client

permits.blm.gov permits.blm.gov

El Centro Field Office
760-337-4400
E-mail: BLM_CA_Web_EC@blm.gov
 
Crusty said:
Question, How many people came to Glamis because they saw it somewhere vs a Buddy brought them.

We were brought in the 80's, were hooked after 1 trip (first trip in sand and small dunes was actually White Water).

How much does todays Social Media actually account for folks coming to Glamis? I will say it sparks interest and hypes up a person to go more then they might otherwise, not sure it brings newbies in. Interesting topic.

DW SM pages "Glorifies" all the stupidity 100% agreed there.
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You do realize gd.com is a form of social media, right?

Back when I had my Blaster, and was riding all over Bell Mountain, someone stopped me and said...

Do you go out to Glamis a lot?

Id never even heard of Glamis before that. So I did a search online and found gd.com...

Leerked around awhile. Started posting, and got an invite to join @SandTrap and shortly after, I got an invite for the race that does not exist. 😎

So if it wasn't for social media (gd.com) I would have never met a shit ton of great people!

Everything is what you make it. 👍🏼

DSCF3266.JPG
 
Not even sure how it became an event. I thought he just posted a few of them were thinking of going out and if people wanted to join they were welcome to join but must have dune experience.
 
Sand Shark said:
Not even sure how it became an event. I thought he just posted a few of them were thinking of going out and if people wanted to join they were welcome to join but must have dune experience.
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Because it was the owner of that group that posted a public open invitation to anyone. BLM will classify it as an "organized group activity"

Two random guys posting a meetup to ride is much different, anyone with a following of any size will be looked at closely.
 
Liability. 99.9% of the issue comes down to liability.

The BLM manages our lands through the RAMP under the FLERA... i.e. the red tape and bureaucracy of federal government. These policies and plans dictate what can and can't happen and what processes must be followed in certain scenarios. If you'd ever lived in the federal service world then it's easy to understand... toss common sense and logic out the window and submit to the risk mitigated policies of federally managed off-road recreation.

Your annual permit constitutes an individual/family understanding and acceptance of norms and responsibility. When a business or entity hosts an event on public lands they are now taking on liability and responsibility over those participating and also thrusting that liability onto the BLM. If there is no approved Ops Plan and insurance with hold-harmless agreement in place then the BLM is also liable, not just the hosting entity.

There's an enormous grey area and wiggle room to skirt the lines which are ultimately interpreted and drawn by the management at the local El Centro office.

Current climate is that any flyer with a business logo and any form of organization is going to require a permit. "Commercial" (anything with a logo) triggers specific rules of engagement.

Organizing any type of actual ride... you are literally going to have the same paperwork and insurance as the Redbull Scramble. It's a lot of work and a lot of liability. OSR Grudge Match at the hill? ....you'll have to shut it down and provide spotters, etc like the Outlaws.... things that happen regularly take a completely different shape when someone (especially a business) organizes them.

I've done numerous SRPs and still doing them. Once your event has a couple years of run time and they are happy with your management of it you can submit for a multi-year permit of up to 5 years at a time... annual paperwork is still required along with an updated Cert of Insurance and hold-harmless statement.

The SRP process can be cumbersome but the people over at El Centro FO are pretty helpful. It's not arbitrary and their hands are tied by documents and process well outside of their control. If you work with them they'll work with you and your grey area is a little wider than the grey area and local discretion is more amenable than working against them.

If anyone actually wants to do something out there and has questions about the process let me know, more than happy to share my experience and point you to the right people at the ECFO to start the process.
 
RIDERED said:
My understanding is if you do it on the store property you wouldn't need a permit however you would have to rent the space from the store.
I have done two separate events. They were both demo rides. One was in the vendor area and I payed the store for the space. Second was outside the stores property and I had to deal with the BLM.
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100%. As soon as you leave the public lands the BLM no longer has any responsibility, authority, or liability over the area.

We hold a separate certificate of insurance and additional insured for LeBlanc, Polaris, etc for the flag run on Friday in the compound, completely separate from the Saturday event.
 
HozayKwarvo said:
100%. As soon as you leave the public lands the BLM no longer has any responsibility, authority, or liability over the area.

We hold a separate certificate of insurance and additional insured for LeBlanc, Polaris, etc for the flag run on Friday in the compound, completely separate from the Saturday event.
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And thank you for do what you do.

💪👏😎
 
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