Starter for LS/2D

[J Alper]

We are a IMI dealer so couple of things we have done over the years 

101, this is the standard starter for 4 cylinder Vdub for 2D and type-1 bellhousing 

101-N for offroad for the 2D S4 bellhousing 

104 for Bus trans or using a 2D clutch in a S4D bellhousing   This has a .500 longer reach than a standard 101 

Full size bellhousing is a 140

Ok

Now lets add some options  MD models so if you do a IMI-101NMR this is a larger tooth to speed up the cranking speed, stands for Mazda Rotary 

Very custom would be a IMI-101HD   101 is about a 1KW, 101N is about 1.4KW  and the HD would be a 2KW, it is a Deisel starter with a adapter for chevy or VW, 

so HD will get you to a 2KW, and the MR will get a bigger gear

most 101 spin around 300 RPM the MR will get up to 500-600 RPM, 

attached is the catalog, 

they make up to a 5kw starter insane!!!!!!!

IMI Catalog2016.PM6 (hitorque.com)

 

[Jtmoney714]

We are a IMI dealer so couple of things we have done over the years 

101, this is the standard starter for 4 cylinder Vdub for 2D and type-1 bellhousing 

101-N for offroad for the 2D S4 bellhousing 

104 for Bus trans or using a 2D clutch in a S4D bellhousing   This has a .500 longer reach than a standard 101 

Full size bellhousing is a 140

Ok

Now lets add some options  MD models so if you do a IMI-101NMR this is a larger tooth to speed up the cranking speed, stands for Mazda Rotary 

Very custom would be a IMI-101HD   101 is about a 1KW, 101N is about 1.4KW  and the HD would be a 2KW, it is a Deisel starter with a adapter for chevy or VW, 

so HD will get you to a 2KW, and the MR will get a bigger gear

most 101 spin around 300 RPM the MR will get up to 500-600 RPM, 

attached is the catalog, 

they make up to a 5kw starter insane!!!!!!!

IMI Catalog2016.PM6 (hitorque.com)

I just put the nmr on my car after my 101 took a chit on the dyno. Stoked at how fast it turns over. 



View attachment IMG_3490.MOV

 

[lincster]

IMO its not the time on the starters... its the sand  - everyone I have seen that has failed is from sand getting in since they are not sealed 

Totally agree with this.

My Fortin has a stupid carbon fiber cover on the side.

I try and seal it with foam and silicon and it still lets sand into the bell housing.

Hard on starters over time.

I just got the Tilton delivered last week.  Going to give that one a whirl.

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

I just put the nmr on my car after my 101 took a chit on the dyno. Stoked at how fast it turns over. 


View attachment 25940

Which model number is it?

The EFI you use and the settings has a lot more to do which how fast the car fires as opposed to starter speed 

Although personally I prefer a faster starter ...

For instance on the Holley EFI's you can set the "minimum RPM" to Catch fire  - factory is set for 400 RPM which is too high for most IMI equipped sand cars, it needs to move down to 300, having a 5 second fuel primer also helps

Also little known Holley fact is that if you have a "bastard engine"  Basically an engine where the reluctor count does not match the cam count  ex. 24x and 4x cam,  the ECU requires 4 revolutions on average to sync cam and crank as opposed to say a 24x 1x or 58x 4x where the sync generally happens  on the first  revolution. 

I find sometimes it will take 6 or more rev's to sync. Holley knows the issue and says its not a concern  - its an annoyance.  Some Other ECU's have the same issue.  

There is something about the appearance of  1/2 rev and start like your car that is so sweet ... Thats nice about a fast starter ....

 

[Jtmoney714]

Which model number is it?

The EFI you use and the settings has a lot more to do which how fast the car fires as opposed to starter speed 

Although personally I prefer a faster starter ...

For instance on the Holley EFI's you can set the "minimum RPM" to Catch fire  - factory is set for 400 RPM which is too high for most IMI equipped sand cars, it needs to move down to 300, having a 5 second fuel primer also helps

Also little known Holley fact is that if you have a "bastard engine"  Basically an engine where the reluctor count does not match the cam count  ex. 24x and 4x cam,  the ECU requires 4 revolutions on average to sync cam and crank as opposed to say a 24x 1x or 58x 4x where the sync generally happens  on the first  revolution. 

I find sometimes it will take 6 or more rev's to sync. Holley knows the issue and says its not a concern  - its an annoyance.  Some Other ECU's have the same issue.  

There is something about the appearance of  1/2 rev and start like your car that is so sweet ... Thats nice about a fast starter ....

This…

 

[Rockwood]

@Bobalos What's actuating your starter?  I found out the hard way that the relay on an IMI starter draws as much as 40A momentarily when triggered.  What I thought was a starter relay issue turned out to be a switch issue since it was slowly burning up my momentary switch on the dash.  Added a relay for the starter relay (yes, a relay for a relay) and all was good.  

 

[Bobalos]

Im not 100% sure.  There is a key on the dash (I replaced last off season). It is a MEFI, EFI system that is under the rear seat & there are relays up under there too with the MEFI (but I dont know what goes to what).  I have never really looked into a MEFI system or how things are "normally" done with them, that will be this off season, when I get the panels removed from the car when I can see what is going on. 

I can say for certain that the new starter turns the  motor over faster than the old one did.  it does not take too many Rev's before it fires, I dont hold the key for more than a second & it starts.  When I was having issues, the starter was not dragging, it would not turn over @ all. 

 

[Jtmoney714]

@Bobalos What's actuating your starter?  I found out the hard way that the relay on an IMI starter draws as much as 40A momentarily when triggered.  What I thought was a starter relay issue turned out to be a switch issue since it was slowly burning up my momentary switch on the dash.  Added a relay for the starter relay (yes, a relay for a relay) and all was good.  

That’s interesting… I only ran 14g to my starter. 

 

[Rockwood]

Im not 100% sure.  There is a key on the dash (I replaced last off season). It is a MEFI, EFI system that is under the rear seat & there are relays up under there too with the MEFI (but I dont know what goes to what).  I have never really looked into a MEFI system or how things are "normally" done with them, that will be this off season, when I get the panels removed from the car when I can see what is going on. 

Word.  With mine, the constant low voltage on that circuit feeding the relay was causing problems inside the relay and with my dash switch.  When I went to rebuild it last time (first time, I bought another from Joe Fab to save the trip) the rebuilder asked what I was using to actuate the starter since there was a lot of evidence of arcing on the contacts.  Recommended I add a relay between, just use the existing wire coming from the dash switch to trigger the relay, relay shunts power straight from the battery to the starter relay with a 40a fuse.  10g wire between. 

 

[Rockwood]

That’s interesting… I only ran 14g to my starter. 

Exactly what I had.  Yours was slow cranking on the dyno though.  Mine would just click and tell me to fack off, 5 more minutes mom.

I'd add the relay though.  

 

[Bobalos]

Kind of interesting reading (or viewing).  Its pretty much like any other starter in the world, but kind of interesting to look @ the guts. 

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=384710

 

[MarvD]

Is the  eny way to tell if my starter is a real 101 N?? I had a 101 N that got tired. I ordered a new 101 N but it is weak in comparison to when the old 101N was fresh.  Is there any marking on it to tell if its a real 101N?? The receipt says 101N,, and the company is a reputable place  but mistakes happen. . The backside just says IMP101 

I did order a new Mezzier and have been fighting to find a clocking that will work in my chassis. (FYI the Mexxier has to be mounted with a stud on one side, no way to get a bolt into the starter that is long enough to fi the 2D box.

Then in a thrash to get things put back togeter for next month,, I find a broken chassis tab for the trailing arm. No wonder it ate up the bushing. 

Just not my week!!!!!

 

[Bobalos]

I thought I had a picture of both the 101 and the 101n next to each other but I can't find it.  

I seem to recall that they both have the model number on the front of it where it meets up with the bell housing.  Not sure why, you can't read it when it's installed.  

They are definitely different...  not sure how many iterations of them they have gone through over the years... 

 

[MarvD]

And that is 'kindof' my concern (aside from the no hot start out in the sand)  The gear drive end only says IMI101

The body and motor looks the same as your pic, but...  Would the cast # in the gear drive be different if the model had a higher torque MOTOR???

 

[Bobalos]

None of those pictures work...  

Maybe it's time to change relays a cables too...  

 

[Rockwood]

Might not be for all, but when I accidentally bought a 101, I could use a socket on the motor side with the 101, but had to use an end wrench for the 101N

Pretty certain the model # is on the flywheel side though. 

 

[Bobalos]

I pulled my old 101 out of the trailer and it did not say 101 on it anywhere.  The stuff on the nose cone said patented or something like that.