School me please on various motors.

J

JBL

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Made the leap from SXS to a 1st gen SCU 4 seat with 2.5 turbo built years ago by Outfront (when it was named Outback)  Its tuned to run on race fuel and have had it out a couple times so far at G.  It is an absolute blast to drive but just wish it had power steering even though the car weighs less then 2k.  I guess I got spoiled with power steering in my SXS, but then again the dunes were beat to chit both times and I felt every thing through the wheel. 

Anyhow I think I may be sticking to a Sand Car vs a SXS so now Im trying to get educated on a future upgrade one of these years.  I follow Johns (Outront) posts on his car and learning what Subaru motors can do.  However I'd like to keep my options open to other motors/cars.  Only V8 I've been in is my buddy's SU 2 seater and its a bad ass no doubt, I like that he can turn quick cause its 2 seater but the V8 torque he just nails it on a slow turn and hes gone.  My sons think the V8 is the end all be all but I know better.  Yeah we see then shooting old and drags which is bad ass but I also dont have 60 to 250k for a toy I get to use 5 -8 times a year.  

I read ecotech motors which I have no clue what they are or LS or 3.2 etc. but would enjoy you guys chiming in on pros/cons of your 4 seater.  Also what I know is what ever tranny is in there better be Mendeola or other top notch and power to weight ratios.

WHEN I upgrade it will to sell the current 4 seater and pick up another 4 seater.  My platform is too old for a different power train swap so thats why Im starting to do my homework for my Next Car.

 
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Need more info on current car setup 2.5 subi but what HP/TQ etc, what trans.

Elect Power steering is the way to go.

Ecotech - Chevy 4cyl 2.0-2.4l NA, Turbo or Supercharged - the SUBI is way better

Honda V6 3.2-3.5l NA, Turbo - may provide more TQ then the subi but with a loss of lighter weight and nimbleness to some extent VS the SUBI

"LS" the simple term for any Chevy V8 from 1999 to current LT models from 4.8l to 7.4l NA, Turbo, Supercharged

If/when upgrading engine you'll need a lot of changes trans, cooling, shocks, wiring, etc...

Upgrading the Subi to fit your desires may cost less over all then a engine swap.

 
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my current subi set up is claimed no paper work as it was built years ago. But the subi is running 6lb boost and the tran is a 6 rib bus with alleged weddle internals close ration tall usable 1st gear and close 2nd 3rd.  I can cruise all day on 3rd really.  The car rips for me and I primarily fast duning not so much shooting the hills.  I've yet to carry 4 adults which would be rare but i've had my son with me and it duned no problem.  

 
another note a junk yard $500 LS 5.3 is going to cost you $2500 plus to swap and probably be less HP then the Subi you have

 
Dune-Track-N said:
Need more info on current car setup 2.5 subi but what HP/TQ etc, what trans.

Elect Power steering is the way to go.

Ecotech - Chevy 4cyl 2.0-2.4l NA, Turbo or Supercharged - the SUBI is way better

Honda V6 3.2-3.5l NA, Turbo - may provide more TQ then the subi but with a loss of lighter weight and being nibleness to some extent VS the SUBI

"LS" the simple term for any Chevy V8 from 1999 to curretn LT models from 4.8l to 7.4l NA, Turbo, Supercharged

If/when upgrading engine you'll need alot of changes trans, cooling, shocks, wiring, etc...
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sorry was not clear but not gonna do a motor swap.  Gonna sell current and buy a different car.

 
Oh, then we need to talk desires and # of seats. Like what about the SxS did you like better then the rail you got and what do you wish the rail did better.

 
For many the LS is the greatest, and they are pretty much bullet proof.  But once you get to a engine with more Torque like the LS, you need to upgrade Tranny, CV's, Axles, shocks......basically everything needs to be bigger and stronger, thus costs go up.  The Subi set up can be run pretty efficiently and not cost you more than a SxS in maintenance if you do some of it yourself.

An LS1 is not faster than a Subi 2.5 turbo or even the Honda 3.5 turbo, and these can be run with a tranny that is half the cost as well.

 
Joey - talk to Andy about his Honda turbo 4 banger set up.   

I knew the sandrail bug would get you.  LOL!  

 
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I don't know much about sandrails other than riding in the dunes with them and chatting folks up in camp and at the hill for the last 25 years, but this is a really informative history of LS engines if your interested in learning more about that platform.



 
JBL said:
Made the leap from SXS to a 1st gen SCU 4 seat with 2.5 turbo built years ago by Outfront (when it was named Outback)  Its tuned to run on race fuel and have had it out a couple times so far at G.  It is an absolute blast to drive but just wish it had power steering even though the car weighs less then 2k.  I guess I got spoiled with power steering in my SXS, but then again the dunes were beat to chit both times and I felt every thing through the wheel. 

Anyhow I think I may be sticking to a Sand Car vs a SXS so now Im trying to get educated on a future upgrade one of these years.  I follow Johns (Outront) posts on his car and learning what Subaru motors can do.  However I'd like to keep my options open to other motors/cars.  Only V8 I've been in is my buddy's SU 2 seater and its a bad ass no doubt, I like that he can turn quick cause its 2 seater but the V8 torque he just nails it on a slow turn and hes gone.  My sons think the V8 is the end all be all but I know better.  Yeah we see then shooting old and drags which is bad ass but I also dont have 60 to 250k for a toy I get to use 5 -8 times a year.  

I read ecotech motors which I have no clue what they are or LS or 3.2 etc. but would enjoy you guys chiming in on pros/cons of your 4 seater.  Also what I know is what ever tranny is in there better be Mendeola or other top notch and power to weight ratios.
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Share what the drivetrain on your car is.  You'll get more reasonable suggestions.

 
Depending on your Transaxle and such, you may be limited on what power plant you can swap to. 

I have a Honda 3.5 V6 with a turbo at 10lbs. Currently about 500HP on E85. Tomorrow I take it for a tune session and I may go to 15lbs. The torque of a V8 is nice, but you can get just as much power out of other engines. Maybe start with a junkyard Honda 3.5 for 700 bucks and then turbo it later if funds are an issue. 

 
Funco4JM said:
Depending on your Transaxle and such, you may be limited on what power plant you can swap to. 

I have a Honda 3.5 V6 with a turbo at 10lbs. Currently about 500HP on E85. Tomorrow I take it for a tune session and I may go to 15lbs. The torque of a V8 is nice, but you can get just as much power out of other engines. Maybe start with a junkyard Honda 3.5 for 700 bucks and then turbo it later if funds are an issue. 
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Start a new thread and share this, please.................I would be interested in everything, including who is doing the tuning.

 
Sand Shark said:
Joey - talk to Andy about is Honda turbo 4 banger set up.   

I knew the sandrail bug would get you.  LOL!  
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Well is it built and in the dunes yet?  Def gonna get a ride but Dave said hes close to 800hp?? Should be a blast.

 
JBL said:
Well is it built and in the dunes yet?  Def gonna get a ride but Dave said hes close to 800hp?? Should be a blast.
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Not done yet.  He is doing a lot of work to the frame.  Motor and trans are done.  

 
JBL said:
my current subi set up is claimed no paper work as it was built years ago. But the subi is running 6lb boost and the tran is a 6 rib bus with alleged weddle internals close ration tall usable 1st gear and close 2nd 3rd.  I can cruise all day on 3rd really.  The car rips for me and I primarily fast duning not so much shooting the hills.  I've yet to carry 4 adults which would be rare but i've had my son with me and it duned no problem.  
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Congrats on your first buggy. Any motor we run on race gas or e85 should be 10 psi. Any stock 2.5 could handle 10psi so you are leaving a lot of hp on the table for no reason. Show us a pic of the turbo and wastegate. Boost may be lowered for reliability of the trans

 
John@Outfront said:
Congrats on your first buggy. Any motor we run on race gas or e85 should be 10 psi. Any stock 2.5 could handle 10psi so you are leaving a lot of hp on the table for no reason. Show us a pic of the turbo and wastegate. Boost may be lowered for reliability of the trans
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Hi John, Thanks and we met at your shop when I had to buy a new header for the 2.5.  I've only been able to provide info that the previous owner gave.  Maybe when you built it years ago you were only running 5lb?  Also seller said he kept boost down to keep the  091 from damage.  Mind telling me what boost you'd recommend for a weddle geared 091?  If you say I can handle more then I will see you ASAP.

 
JBL said:
Hi John, Thanks and we met at your shop when I had to buy a new header for the 2.5.  I've only been able to provide info that the previous owner gave.  Maybe when you built it years ago you were only running 5lb?  Also seller said he kept boost down to keep the  091 from damage.  Mind telling me what boost you'd recommend for a weddle geared 091?  If you say I can handle more then I will see you ASAP.
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you said you were running race gas, if so you should run it at 10 psi.  if it was built years ago its probably not able to run on 91 as the stock compression is 10 to 1

bring it in for a dyno and we can see where you really are and if low, turn it up!

 
John's insight here is great  - As many have said Subi's (when you already have made the initial cash outlay) are excellent bang for the buck, light, stable, low center of gravity, generally easier to drive cars -  But I will say you should be much happier with power steering on the car .. IOt will change the way the car feels - Less fighting , more enjoying.  Electric PS is the way to go especially on a light car - simple and easy install and relatively inexpensive - a few fabricators here on GD can handle the install - it will make you "use" the car's power better as well IMO

 
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