Sandrail LS Motors - Pics - Tools - QA.

[J Alper]

Can tailor this anyway,  can just show pics of the finished product, or tools used, or pics of the build as it goes,   

 

[J Alper]

@Lambro  455 - RHS Tall Deck Twin Turbo, 

 

[EastMT]

I'd like to see what tools you use for these builds.

 

[J Alper]

I'd like to see what tools you use for these builds.

Will start on a 383 for a Buckshot and will go through all the procedures,  

but this is start,   PM me if someone needs a pdf version 

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

Jason, if you don't have the "snipping tool" loaded on your PC, do it.  SO much easier and clearer than taking a pic of your screen.  Snip, right click paste.  Magic..

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

Nice Buildsheet Jason

I use this one, I find it easier for me to capture everything

forum will only let me share in Jpeg - if anyome wants a PDF DM me 

 

[J Alper]

Jason, if you don't have the "snipping tool" loaded on your PC, do it.  SO much easier and clearer than taking a pic of your screen.  Snip, right click paste.  Magic..

View attachment 112471

As always, thank you good looking out,  

 

[J Alper]

More Motor pics, 

@Squatcher 445 CI Motor

This was a little different,  Custom Made Snout to use the Whipple 4.5 components on a 4.0 Whipple, 

Go with our Heart,  If they tell you it can not be done, prove them wrong, 

 

[J Alper]

More 445, Wit our blocks sent to Mast Motorsports for all the Machining, 

Different owners pretty much the same motor,  

Both will have a 4.5 due to the 4.0 Whipple is no more,  

 

[J Alper]

And a little NA stuff, 

408CI 

Robert Yup for the Yup Brothers 

 

[J Alper]

BJ Eskew's  Turbo Class One car for

the Dirt Shades Race Car, 

 

[Jtmoney714]

More 445, Wit our blocks sent to Mast Motorsports for all the Machining, 

Different owners pretty much the same motor,  

Both will have a 4.5 due to the 4.0 Whipple is no more,  

View attachment 112477

View attachment 112478

Are these utilizing the sleeves 5.3 aluminum block?

 

[J Alper]

Are these utilizing the sleeves 5.3 aluminum block?

Some,  Sleeving can be tricky,  I now only use a Block out of a SS Blazer, the 6.2 is the worst to sleeve very thin on the aluminum sides, most likely to keep the heat down, and the LS2 block have had a 50% success rate,  so when sleeving is sonic wall test each block after the sleeve are out,   can take a little time, 

If someone wants a RHS Block,  and is a Member that is almost the same price as a sleeved block after Sleeves, Good Block Line Hone, Decking, Cleaning Clearance for crank ect,  

I dont think anyone can beat my price in a RHS block for Members only,   

And a RHS is a priority main oiling system,  this means it will feed the crank and rods before the lifters,  

 

[KLC]

Agreed with an RHS block, or other aftermarket blocks for that matter. If you're committed enough to your off road engine to even contemplate sleeving a block, just go with an RHS to begin with and save yourself the hassle. At that point a few thousand more should not be an issue, if it is then stick with the junkyard 5.3. 

 

[Fullthrottleguy]

Some,  Sleeving can be tricky,  I now only use a Block out of a SS Blazer, the 6.2 is the worst to sleeve very thin on the aluminum sides, most likely to keep the heat down, and the LS2 block have had a 50% success rate,  so when sleeving is sonic wall test each block after the sleeve are out,   can take a little time, 

If someone wants a RHS Block,  and is a Member that is almost the same price as a sleeved block after Sleeves, Good Block Line Hone, Decking, Cleaning Clearance for crank ect,  

I dont think anyone can beat my price in a RHS block for Members only,   

And a RHS is a priority main oiling system,  this means it will feed the crank and rods before the lifters,  

My 2 cents 

Yup - the days of cheap used LS blocks are gone and with everyone wanting to go Big Inch (for good reasons)  Aftermerket is smart.   Not really cheaper or the same price in reality doing it right - sorry Jason  ...

And there are some downsides of the RHS Aluminum block to be fair in certain applications   - while they are mostly superior to all the factory blocks if for the only reason of having a Longer sleeve and allowing bigger cubic inch without excessive oil consumption and increased piston skirt wear (rocking at the bottom) and they also have better material sleeves  and the aforementioned priority oiling (copied from the GM LSX iron block).

They are not guaranteed to handle more HP than factory aluminum, and they do have issues  

Especially on SC engines of ripping out the front main because there is not enough material for the main studs to grab - they tried to make the block breath a little better ( LS's all have windage issues except the LS Next block) and it weakened that area,

Like everything there is no one size fits all

I recommend the CP Performance tall Block for Large inch SC engines  - its basically a copy of the LSX block in Aluminum with more meat down the Main area - not that we have seen no problems with all aftermarket blocks. Just choose the right block for the application - its not one size fits all.

In fact if you want to go max Effort you have to go Iron - where that HP falls is really open to discussion, and where and how you drive and car weight etc. but the general consensus unless you like to rip the engine down every season is 1440 HP  - which is just under the theoretical limit of an e85 using boosted engine 

But that assumes you keep the RPM redline  under 7200 and set it closer to 6800 and stay off the limiter.

You can do an aluminum enginme with 1800+HP on M1  and e85 but be prepared to rip it down and swap bearings and rings at least once a season

On SC engines if you want cubes (and you should) a tall deck lets you run a 4" or 4 .125 stroke and get to 454 or 468  without the risk of breaking off a crank snout which is common with 4.250 stroke and SC's especially those big Whipples I would never go over  4" stroke with them, there is a graveyard of broken s=crank snouts due to that,

Once again smart builds are important - so many time experience is key.  

Turbo cars are easier on the crank but harder on the rods and get into detonation quickly, there are ways we get around that without killing power on SC and Turbo cars but its more cost in the build 

RPM kills engines and NA's need RPM to make power, so realistically you will spend more on parts on the long block  for a High HP  NA vs an SC or Turbo making more power . boosted engines don't  need to RPM that high, so we build them different . Big inch NA needs really big heads  and big valves to make power you need to get fuel in instead of anBoosted where it gets pushed in and NA needs big exhaust to get it out too  - heads are expensive and heads those  big valves need bigger springs that are prone to getting hot and failing and need bigger heavier push rods and more expensive rockers and lifters and better cam cores  to keep it all working smooth with less valve train oscillation, you might even need a solid cam and you don't want to go there.  - so the cam choice is key and its really hard to make low end power  - so you are never enjoying a smooth cruise  - i hate compromises  so I give up a bit on the top to get way more in the mid - many dyno tests to get a good combo - and we don't drive dynos so lots of seat of the pants too, to get a good combo you will spend good $$

Boosted engines don't need all they heavy expensive heads and parts its a waste for the most part, you save money there and improve reliability as well. And yes you can make 1200+ HP on a set of under $1000 heads in a boosted configuration.

it should be noted that None of the aftermarket blocks are ready to use out of the box if you do it right ...  I spend a full day deburring them before even starting on machine work, they also require some special parts in most cases like front ancd rear covers  in the case of tall blocks different timing chains and plugs and gaskets . I would say from experience of myself and machinist is that prepping an aftermarket block costs far more than factory and if it does not you should question the builder.

In 90+% of cases there is no way I would not do a tall block if I was going aftermarket - why not? we don't have to fit the engine under a hood ... and you get the advantage of running a non stroker compromised piston - so no issues with excessive oil consumption and piston rocking - you get to go bigger safely 

You are buying a rotating assy anyway just go for tall deck parts. NA tall decks can easily go 500+ cubic inches  - it makes that 900HP NA engine a reality. Just need really big heads  liker Frankies' or better yet All Pros.

I hate the idea that you need to go through a HP engine every couple seasons like I am seeing more and more. I have done a number of  850-1,000 HP at the crank engines that have 10 seasons or more on them  and they just run with oil changes and no issues  ( the older 383 SC's smoke a little when you get on them hard after 5 seasons of so - just the stroker issue with short sleeves)

I guess my bottom line is that I like to big engines that are as reliable as those basically stock LS1's we see in 2005- 2008 ERA scand cars  that in may cases are stilling running those same engines  with just oil changes almost 20 years (seasons) later 

FWIW

 

[KLC]

The big displacement SC marine engines would last a very long time (10 years or more) before any issues popped up, of course they are not used in the same manner as an off road engine. Marine engines are typically rolled into their power band and maintained there, unlike off road engines that are constantly on and off the throttle. I remember the SC 502 in our boat, we would pull out of the marina at the 40 (I forget the name of it its been so long) and run 5200 rpm until we literally got back to Windsor. There is nothing like the sound of a healthy big block and a roots SC just guzzling fuel and singing through unbaffled headers, unless of course you were fortunate enough to have 2 of them LOL. Sorry to go off topic. Like FTG has said, durability is all in the rotating assembly's architecture.

 

[1tonfun]

I had a builder once tell me it can't be done means you don't have a big enough wallet LOL

 

[J Alper]

Alex keep it lighter or please start your own Topic,  

If you want to post some pics and comment on the pics, that is fine, but to ramble on for a full page with little fact and a lot of opinion,  is not what I started this topic for, you want to post some build and some tools and a little of how to,  great, 

but please keep it to that,   

 

[J Alper]

@Fullthrottleguy

For CP Performance block being better,  than a RHS, that is just a rambling on opinion,   There are so many Features of a RHS Compared to a CP,  both Cap designs are not a great design, And if i had a Free Block I would bot Choose the RHS or a CP,  both are Great Blocks,  but not one is better than each other, almost the same block,  

Have the mains tie into the side i feel is not a great option  it adds windage and when the block flexes the bearing clearance change,   But that how LS motors are designed so most go with it, 

The Dart Block has a better oiling system and way better block design, and are 2-3K over a RHS or CP block and long weight times,   

For a Sand Car Both Blocks work good,  

For Most Sand Cars the LS3 Block is amazing,  

I mostly started this to give good ideas to the average person wanting to try something for themselves,  will show some cool builds 

But mostly what i will post is the average 383, 402 416, CI   this is the Majority of sandcar motors,  

Back to the Facts,  the CP block is a great block, But the RHS is Stronger and has more features, The one issue of the CP block is it is a Aluminum Copy of the LSX block,  the RHS is not a Copy,  it has features that other block do not have, 

RHS features, 

• NO Rear Barbell, it has plugs with large rear oil passage
  
• Rear Outlet 12AN built into the rear of the block for full flow oil and oil cooler or dry sump return, 
  
• Billet rear cover with inverted pyramid slot to hold o-ring, this is better than the standard o ring straight channel, 
  
• upper valley is setup for knock sensors 
  
• Larger lifter area, they deleted the LSX style try design putting more meat in the block over the 6mm bosses for trays, 
  
• can run rear cam sensor, 
  
• steel or brass cam plate, 
  
• STANDARD, ARP 7/16 main studs, everyone the LSX and CP use 10mm, 
  
• Cam Bearings come installed,  
  
• Comes with Spiral locks for cam bearings  
  
• Side bolts 3/8 ARP, all other are 8mm