Sand Car Prices - New and Refresh

Mac

Mac

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Going back a few years, there was a thread on "why aren't affordable sand cars available.../what happened to affordable sand car builders..."

Out of that thread, @Grant@Funco was the only builder that spoke up...that I recall. Grant took a pretty good beating for what I remember but he gave a truthful answer. Things just cost.
You have parts, labor, sub work, finish, motor/trans, and let's not forget...compensation for innovative design.

Fast forward now to "MY" rebuild. Mind you, I'm doing most of it myself. With that said...it still f*cking costs! I went from a "refresh/update" to a full ground up rebuild. I now get how guys would call their 2008 refresh a 2025 new car. There is nothing on my car that hasn't been touched, gone through, rebuilt/replaced, etc... It's a new car. So yeah...I'll have a 2025 SU! :ROFLMAO: And...it will almost cost what a new one would.

So @Grant@Funco Thank you Sir for what you do and what you put up with. Thank you for the time you took back then to explain it too us all and still put out a great product. You were 100% correct.
 
Slot car rocket ship. Post up some pictures, you know I love me a good mid engine SU
 
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I've posed this question to every car builder I have come in contact with over the past 5 years.

Answers range from "It simply cannot be achieved based on materials and labor costs" to "why should I stop building $250k+ cars to build a sub $100k car?". Every answer has it's merits.

I think Extreme is the closest you can get to an entry level car these days at $125k, but I still think there is room on the table to cut some cost and make a sub $100k car for the guy that wants something more than a SxS. If a builder was really interested in taking the time to plan them out ahead of time and streamline the build and assembly process.

Engine and transaxle are arguably the biggest up front cost, but I also don't think every car needs a $50k engine, electronics, and transaxle package. A $16,000 HV-24 transaxle mated to a rebuilt stockish LS or Honda V6 would really help cut that cost down. Along with a CAD designed and CNC bent set of tubes can really help knock some cost out of these builds. Basic paint scheme and tin work, seats, other creature comforts will also help lower the cost.

Just my 2 worthless pesos.
 
But is there a market to sustain a higher volume production build that would be necessary to recoup investment? The only way to get cost down and still have margin means you have to build higher quantity. How many people out there are going to spend $90k - $100k for a car like that? You would compete with the sign and drive crowd on the lower end and the more expensive cars on the upper end. You also have the used market. Perhaps if you had a program to finance people you might get enough buyers? I kind of doubt it.
 
Im with you on this. Im still no where close to finishing my car. and ill just say that to the point that im at right now in costs, I could have(maybe should have) bought a Gen 4 Funco with an S4 and matching power........ Which is eating me alive at the moment. and whats mind boggling is that its still deamed as a budget build being sub Extremes costs for a basic buggy. but I cant even drive it yet...........
 
Dockmaster said:
But is there a market to sustain a higher volume production build that would be necessary to recoup investment? The only way to get cost down and still have margin means you have to build higher quantity. How many people out there are going to spend $90k - $100k for a car like that? You would compete with the sign and drive crowd on the lower end and the more expensive cars on the upper end. You also have the used market. Perhaps if you had a program to finance people you might get enough buyers? I kind of doubt it.
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For sign and drive you are gonna need insurance for the financing.. Which means you are going to have to get listed with some valuation company like KBB or Nada etc.. Then you are also going to be talking about production which in qty is gonna drive liability insurance through the roof etc..

It's no small undertaking to build things in quantity.

RD
 
madweazl said:
In my mind, the Pro R and Mav R have eliminated budget builds from relevance. The suspension on the Live Valve cars is incredible and the versatility they offer is impossible to match.
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I would add speed to that list, but I agree.. The new SXS's are as good if not better than dual sport cars, they offer a lot more flexibility.

RD
 
Yes, but buggies will most likely hold their value - sxs's get better every year and there are 1000's of them....you might spend more on a buggy, but long term I think it's cheaper / a better "investment" in the end. i.e - you buy the latest can-am or Polaris for 50k, in 10 years it's worth 20, maybe, - if you spend 50k on a buggy rebuild or purchase, in 10 years, it will be worth close to that price. (Or at least has a better chance to) - and if we are lucky, worth more.
 
Extreme seems to be doing this the best. Inflation is a mofo... 125K is the new 75K.

Still can't beat a buggy in the sand. SxS are cool for their versatility, but if you're doing sand only... a 50K used LS1 buggy is gonna outperform the SxS
 
EmpirE231 said:
Extreme seems to be doing this the best. Inflation is a mofo... 125K is the new 75K.

Still can't beat a buggy in the sand. SxS are cool for their versatility, but if you're doing sand only... a 50K used LS1 buggy is gonna outperform the SxS
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I held firm on the same belief until this season. The dunes were beat to shit until the wind last month. From camp rzr thru January.
Most of us in sand cars were crying. The new sxs's just ate it up. Smooth sand yes and even with that it's a tough call. These 4wd late model sxs's seem to do better and are running faster and faster.
Average dune rides of 45 mph are the daily now. That wasn't possible a few years ago in a sxs.
 
Grease Monkey said:
I held firm on the same belief until this season. The dunes were beat to shit until the wind last month. From camp rzr thru January.
Most of us in sand cars were crying. The new sxs's just ate it up. Smooth sand yes and even with that it's a tough call. These 4wd late model sxs's seem to do better and are running faster and faster.
Average dune rides of 45 mph are the daily now. That wasn't possible a few years ago in a sxs.
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I sort of agree when the dunes are beat to crap... This last weekend the conditions were nice and I fell back in love with my car.

Still an LS powered car in the 50K range in decent conditions is a lot more fun than buzzing around in a SxS IMO
 
Dune-Track-N said:
A true dune buggy will always be cooler then a SxS. Prove me wrong :cool:
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I wish I could find it, but there was recently a video with a trophy truck on the bottom and Speed UTV on top running the same section of track.. It was pretty eye opening. :oops: The new SXS's are no joke.

RD
 
A light and nimble sandcar is amazing in the smooth sand. Those days are unfortunately limited now. I was against owning a heavy sandcar as it wasn't nimble. Now and with the conditions we've seen and may continue to see, it's going to take a heavier sandcar with good suspension to enjoy more days in the sand. Or a new RzR or Can Am. And yes Speed too @RiverDave :ROFLMAO:
 
Having just completed my rebuild... I know exactly what most are saying about the price of goods and services. I considered selling my Gen4 and finding the right Gen6, but I couldn't come to terms with the price tag... well here I am a year later, and very close to what a used Gen6 would go for.

Mac is correct in that everything gets touched and replaced. I replaced every nut and bolt, hiems, brake pad, wiring, and so on. The only things not replaced were the chassis, arms, axles, and hubs. It's crazy... but that's also why these rebuilds are trying to fetch the cost of a new car. For all purposes, it really is a new car, the time and money spent on the older car, you could've had a new car.

Live and Learn I guess... I won't do it again that's for sure. I love everything that I did to my car, but I could've had a true Gen6 had I listened to several people's warnings lol.
 
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Grease Monkey said:
A light and nimble sandcar is amazing in the smooth sand. Those days are unfortunately limited now. I was against owning a heavy sandcar as it wasn't nimble. Now and with the conditions we've seen and may continue to see, it's going to take a heavier sandcar with good suspension to enjoy more days in the sand. Or a new RzR or Can Am. And yes Speed too @RiverDave :ROFLMAO:
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Buy internal bypass shocks...you'd be surprised (i sure am) what a difference they make....i actually like the chatter bumps...it's kind of like riding a jet ski with just a little bit of chop - feels like it hooks up better when you are riding at the correct speed vs glassy water.

That's one of the main differences between buggies and sxs - they have more travel of course, but the rough sections you're not using more that the first 6 to 8 inches...which is where the internal bypasses shine.
 
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