Ford F-250 Death Wobble

wopachop said:
I got a 2002. Went to an alignment shop with really good reviews. I remember talking with the owner guy he was an Asian dude. El Camino in San Clemente. I get the feeling he built his business on honesty. I liked him and wanted to give him my business even though he was $20-40 more than other places. He told me you cant adjust caster on the 99-02 Ford. Also said my ball joints were shot and he cant do an alignment on my truck. 

What still bothers me to this day is the way he looked at me when he said you cant adjust caster on the 99-02. There was this weird pause where he just looked at me. Was i supposed to reply? I could be reenacting the situation wrong in my head. All i know is after leaving the shop i started researching how to do ball joints on a 2002 ford. I also bought the eccentric caster bushing. That gives the 99-02 Ford the ability to adjust caster. Why didnt my Asian buddy tell me this? Maybe he didnt know? Looking back he told me my ball joints we jacked. He could fix everything for X amount. Maybe its not in his best interest to tell me you can buy a little top bushing to adjust camber and caster. 

In a way i always pictured myself going back for them to check my settings. I made sure to put the eccentric bushings equal on both sides regarding caster. But i never tested caster. The way it feels is much more towards city driving. No biggie because im always doing 65mph in the second lane over. 
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this is absolutely incorrect, it's done with those same upper bushings but off canter for camber/caster. I've done it on our '01 and my 05 uses the same bushings.

 
He took it to a place, supposed to get it back today.  I know for a fact that there was play in the steering links and what looks like a trac bar.  I guess we'll see what happens.  

Thanks for the information.

 
Blackdmax said:
He took it to a place, supposed to get it back today.  I know for a fact that there was play in the steering links and what looks like a trac bar.  I guess we'll see what happens.  

Thanks for the information.
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that'll definitely cause issues... I did upper, lower and track bar and drag link joints, the steering bar isn't serviceable so that just gets replaced.

 
Yep there are 2 options for the top bushing. You can buy the bushings with a preset offset. Or the eccentric bushing that you can rotate around to change the angles. 

I didnt know this at the time. Looking back i wonder why the owner told me you cant adjust caster. My best guess is that he uses stuff like that to gauge how much the person knows, which then could effect the quote he tosses out. 

 
J Alper said:
This will not get a death wobble on a ford, this ^^^ will feel like a front end that floats or pushes but not a death wobble,  The lift kit is wrong, or miss matched parts on the lift 

For example if the track bar, or track bar drop does not equal the steering arm geometry you can get a wondering front end,  the Caster is where i would start, 

put up pictures of the lift that is on your truck 
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A worn the F out track bar, drag link or tie rod won’t cause death wobble on a Ford? Uh….

Wandering front end is not death wobble. That’s bumpsteer, not enough caster, or some other sort of alignment issue. Death wobble is the front axle or tires violently moving left/right. Like an unbalanced tire on steroids. 

image.gif

And is absolutely caused by clapped out steering links or track bar. 

J Alper said:
Most death wobble are pretty simple to fix, I bet if you check the Caster, it is off, 

If the caster is off and the inclination is wrong this will spiral out of control, Guys in racing make 6 digits setting up track bars, the track bar angle will highly effect caster when the truck is in motion, 

Now add improper steering angle to track bar angle and it modify this effect even worse,  

I dont think i have seen a Factory Ford Truck with factory suspension and wheel settings have a death wobble, 

All lift kits are not the same, get a quality FULL kit for the front and set the caster correctly and you will have no issues. 
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Caster is determined by the difference in length for the upper and lower pivots on the control arm/link(s). Track bar only locates the axle left/right and has nothing to do with caster unless something’s wrong. Caster can cause death wobble if it’s 0 or negative, but usually the result of bent radius arms/links or clapped out bushings (why I said to pry on them). Even with caster being negative, you should still be able to control death wobble since the steering and suspension components are still solid. Not the case with broken/loose parts.

My neighbor’s 100% stock 2006 F-350 4WD had death wobble. Ball joint on the drag link was wasted. 

https://www.offroadelements.com/blog/death-wobble-what-it-is-what-causes-it-and-how-to-fix-and-prevent-it/

 
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J Alper said:
Most death wobble are pretty simple to fix, I bet if you check the Caster, it is off, 

If the caster is off and the inclination is wrong this will spiral out of control, Guys in racing make 6 digits setting up track bars, the track bar angle will highly effect caster when the truck is in motion, 

Now add improper steering angle to track bar angle and it modify this effect even worse,  

I dont think i have seen a Factory Ford Truck with factory suspension and wheel settings have a death wobble, 

All lift kits are not the same, get a quality FULL kit for the front and set the caster correctly and you will have no issues. 
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our 01 did it badly, out of the box new... go over a railroad track or hit a pothole in the road and it was game over... 

 
Rockwood said:
A worn the F out track bar, drag link or tie rod won’t cause death wobble on a Ford? Uh….

Wandering front end is not death wobble. That’s bumpsteer, not enough caster, or some other sort of alignment issue. Death wobble is the front axle or tires violently moving left/right. Like an unbalanced tire on steroids. 

View attachment 37888

And is absolutely caused by clapped out steering links or track bar. 

Caster is determined by the difference in length for the upper and lower pivots on the control arm/link(s). Track bar only locates the axle left/right and has nothing to do with caster unless something’s wrong. Caster can cause death wobble if it’s 0 or negative, but usually the result of bent radius arms/links or clapped out bushings (why I said to pry on them). Even with caster being negative, you should still be able to control death wobble since the steering and suspension components are still solid. Not the case with broken/loose parts.

My neighbor’s 100% stock 2006 F-350 4WD had death wobble. Ball joint on the drag link was wasted. 

https://www.offroadelements.com/blog/death-wobble-what-it-is-what-causes-it-and-how-to-fix-and-prevent-it/
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Read the full topic it is a newer truck, track bar not going to cause it on this truck,  If the caste is put into Neg, then the weight of the truck will fight left to right steering, and then goes into a wobble, 

on 01 incorrect or modified rear springs, shackel kits will make a camber change, 

Incorrect track bar height will lift or lower the axle and also cause camber change, the picture above does not really add any data, 

Track bar height is more important than a worn out bussing, 

Start with Track bar Height and then adjust camber, camber in motion will fix front wobble,  

 
without a pic of the front end of the truck everyone is grasping at straws, 

It has a lift on the truck, so what part is not done correctly,   

 
J Alper said:
Read the full topic it is a newer truck, track bar not going to cause it on this truck,  If the caste is put into Neg, then the weight of the truck will fight left to right steering, and then goes into a wobble, 

on 01 incorrect or modified rear springs, shackel kits will make a camber change, 

Incorrect track bar height will lift or lower the axle and also cause camber change, the picture above does not really add any data, 

Track bar height is more important than a worn out bussing, 

Start with Track bar Height and then adjust camber, camber in motion will fix front wobble,  
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Dude, are you confusing track bar with radius arms? Camber and caster?

Brand new trucks can still have loose track bar bolts, shot bushings or ball joints.  2016 can have plenty of miles on it to wear out components, or loose bolts. It takes zero tools and less than 5 minutes to make sure the components are sound with the method I mentioned.

A 2.5” lift will reduce caster by 1*, factory is 3.5*. Unless something is broken, you’re not gonna go negative caster. If they don’t match side to side (4 on one, 2 on the other), steering will always pull one direction, not death wobble.

Incorrect height on the track bar will cause bump steer as it moves over a bump. It will not lift or lower the axle unless it’s so far off the joint is bound. This would only be a problem if someone put in a track bar drop bracket but left the pitman arm stock. If lifted without an adjustable track bar, it would be too short and offset to one side or the other, which is annoying and will require a drag link adjustment, but is not a cause for death wobble.

Camber on a stick axle will never change unless it’s bent or the ball joints on the knuckles are shot. If TTB, there’s no track bar. 

 
Rockwood said:
Dude, are you confusing track bar with radius arms? Camber and caster?

Brand new trucks can still have loose track bar bolts, shot bushings or ball joints.  2016 can have plenty of miles on it to wear out components, or loose bolts. It takes zero tools and less than 5 minutes to make sure the components are sound with the method I mentioned.

A 2.5” lift will reduce caster by 1*, factory is 3.5*. Unless something is broken, you’re not gonna go negative caster. If they don’t match side to side (4 on one, 2 on the other), steering will always pull one direction, not death wobble.

Incorrect height on the track bar will cause bump steer as it moves over a bump. It will not lift or lower the axle unless it’s so far off the joint is bound. This would only be a problem if someone put in a track bar drop bracket but left the pitman arm stock. If lifted without an adjustable track bar, it would be too short and offset to one side or the other, which is annoying and will require a drag link adjustment, but is not a cause for death wobble.

Camber on a stick axle will never change unless it’s bent or the ball joints on the knuckles are shot. If TTB, there’s no track bar. 
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Dude, your are confused, you are making assumptions, on a truck you have never seen, a 2.5'' can add a billion degrees of caster if someone installed a kit a Effed it all up, you are correct on having the track bar equal the steering arm drop, that will give it bump steer, 

Correct Camber will change only if something is broke, most of the time a ball joint goes out, then Effed up wear on your tire, 

Caster Change will cause the wobble, to have on a 2015 all the steering joints go our far enough to cause a wobble is unlikely, 

This is all hear say, 

Still no pics of the truck, it might be a Chevy IFS for all we know, 

 
J Alper said:
1. Dude, your are confused, you are making assumptions, on a truck you have never seen, a 2.5'' can add a billion degrees of caster if someone installed a kit a Effed it all up, you are correct on having the track bar equal the steering arm drop, that will give it bump steer, 

2. Correct Camber will change only if something is broke, most of the time a ball joint goes out, then Effed up wear on your tire, 

3. Caster Change will cause the wobble, to have on a 2015 all the steering joints go our far enough to cause a wobble is unlikely, 

4. This is all hear say, 

Still no pics of the truck, it might be a Chevy IFS for all we know, 
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Addressing your comments above by adding numbers:

1. I'm assuming nothing, just giving diagnostic advice I've personally used to fix DW.  For some unknown reason, you quoted my post and said they couldn't cause death wobble on a Ford.  It's a live axle suspension with a track bar, chances are it's either the track bar, or the steering, since death wobble is literally the entire axle or steering bouncing out of control (hence the gif I posted).  If it's wandering and vague, then caster, but that's not death wobble unless it's zero'd out, but that usually requires physical damage, so not where I'd check first.

Short of purposefully damaging the radius arm bushings (which I also said to check), I don't see how a 2.5" lift will cause anything more than the standard 1* of caster loss.  Don't believe me?  I'm pretty sure the guys at Carli know a thing or three: https://carlisuspension.com/product/ford/f250-f350/sd-components/2005-2016/caster-correction-shims/.  Even if installed backwards, you'd still have positive caster.  

2. This was in response to your other post saying the track bar will cause camber, which is why I asked if you're confusing the terms.  There is no way the track bar can cause camber.  You also said the track bar height changes will lift the axle.  Short of binding, it can't.  Track bar height only determines roll center, how much the axle will offset while cycling, and causes bumpsteer if it isn't parallel to the drag link.

3. Since factory is 3.5*, I highly doubt it went negative with such a small lift unless someone went out of their way to purposefully F things up.

4. Take your own advice and read the whole thread.  He literally posted:

Blackdmax said:
2016 4x4, it looks to have maybe a 2.5" lift.   It was inherited from his BIL, who had since passed.   I've identified some of the end links with play, mainly the steering tie rod, but he just wants a shop to repair, recommend and fix. 
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That it's a 2016 4x4 with a 2.5" lift.  Add to that the subject of the thread: "Ford F-250 Death Wobble" and you have a complete picture on the vehicle in question.

 
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Just as a follow up, the shop he took it to replaced...

The track bar and joints, drag link ends, tie rod ends, upper and lower ball joints.  He went ahead and replaced the shocks with Bilstein 5100s and he says it is night and day different in the ride now.

 
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