Dry Sump - Inside look

[J Alper]

As we move forward with Engine builds, I feel like the bigger the cubic inch the harder the oil control, we have moved into a 4.380 crank stroke and it just whips the oil, 

Couple of things to think about,  

When filling the oil pan, if you do this with water when the pan is on the shelf, when you reach the capacity of the pan, the oil level is almost to the top of the pan, with some larger stroke's the crank will be sitting in the oil before start up, 

When oil gets hot, it is like water, the oil is moving around like water is in a pan,  take a pan of water fill it to the top and go drive around,  that is what is going on in a wet sump, Now get the front tires off the ground or go down a good % of oil is sitting on the crank 

Blender time, when the crank is spinning, the cranks has ruff machine marks whipping Air into the oil  and over time you will have more Air then oil in this mixture,  

Wet sumps need to rest to let the air release from the oil, 

Engine heat, the wet sump just collects heat, only way to really cool down the temp is to turn the motor off, 

 

[J Alper]

Many Dry sumps on the Market, some are better than others but what is the Goal, then the task list can follow, 

For me if the Goal is for longevity of the motor, then just about all systems will work fine,  we can get more into detail as question follow, 

One of the most economical system we are using is the Aviaid Dry Sump Setup, 

Aviaid system custom made for us all in was $2000 with Tank  -

IN the past we used a LS3 oil pan $300, Windage tray Mast $90 Improved Racing Baffle $200 Mellings pump HV$200 SUBTRACT THAT FROM THE STANDARD BUILD AND THAT GETS YOU DOWN TO -- $1200 difference for a Dry Sump,  

Other concern is room 

it take some planning but the tanks are only 6'' round and you can go as little as 16'' tall, i felt like this was huge, then go a 6x20 pipe and found many places this can sit, you can even run up front if you use a 16-AN feed line,   

 

[J Alper]

Pump is the Same for Y body or F body, the pulley will slide back and forth,  the difference is the Hub, 

Even to help the budget, PRW has a ATI copy with dry sump hub for $380 compared to a $550 ATI, so little savings there, 

Or if you have a ATI already, just a Hub Change of $220 

 

[J Alper]

Inside the Tank, 

not a lot of technology or mystery in the tank, oil comes in the top swirls around the round top, then has a plate with slots to top the oil from swirling, then drops to the sump 

the other plate is a baffle just like in a fuel tank to keep from oil slosh, 

the secret to oil air separations is time, oil sites higher and longer in the tank and air goes to the top, Much less air in the oil WAY LESS AIR, 

first pic is with top off, that lets the oil drop, plate with holes is just a slosh baffle,  second pic is the cap and the oil intake and vent for the tank 

Oil is sucked out so needs a vent so the oil can move free,  last pic is just the oil pickup, 

Not much to these tanks  

 

[J Alper]

Mounting 

we found a spot next to the tank, 

was hard to fill, so we did a remote fill to the top of the car, 

 

[In Excess]

Looks like a Peterson tank, but I’m sure they are all pretty close to the same 

 

[J Alper]

Lets delete some chit, 

to install one couple of things need to be planned out, 

like removal of the old oil pump, 

pump gets removed and that it, timing set stays the same, that is what the balancer hits, you will need to add some freeze plugs but we tapped the motor for plugs, 

we only tapped for plugs because we have so many pipe taps in the shop,  but Aviaid has a plug kit, 

the barbell stay in the back, if you have a double o ring barbell then you really do not need to cap off the old pump valley, 

for us it looks cooler so we did not do the return on the pan we used a fitting on the side of the block 

No more Windage tray, they are not used the pan itself will want the oil to get to it quick, a windage tray will slow down the process,  

 

[J Alper]

Looks like a Peterson tank, but I’m sure they are all pretty close to the same 

Correct Peterson Tank. was on sale and got it for $450

If you do not want the tank to come apart and make it a one piece then you can get a tank down to $200-300 

I want a Patterson tank they actually have more baffle and pickup screens inside, but was $900,   

you can add more baffle (aluminum walls) with some plates and a rivet gun, 

Think of your oil tank as a Fuel Tank, Same process,  

 

[In Excess]

Correct Peterson Tank. was on sale and got it for $450

If you do not want the tank to come apart and make it a one piece then you can get a tank down to $200-300 

I want a Patterson tank they actually have more baffle and pickup screens inside, but was $900,   

you can add more baffle (aluminum walls) with some plates and a rivet gun, 

Think of your oil tank as a Fuel Tank, Same process,  

That’s what we have in our cars, if you make it one piece you can’t clean it to well

 

[J Alper]

That’s what we have in our cars, if you make it one piece you can’t clean it to well

That is very true,   couple of cheaper tanks that come apart from the top,  or can be added later, like a 6'' V band clamp can be welded in, 

We just did a 4'' round tube that goes into a square bottom, 

Hopefully a tank mounting does not discourage anyone,  any tank is better than a wetsump,   

How much oil does it hold, 

my tank to 3/4 or a little less holds 5 quarts,     with 5 quarts in the pan kartek oil filter mount and oil filter holds 1 quart,  and i used a 16An feed and 12An pressure line with always a little in the pan,   the answer is 11 quarts was what the total is, 

 

[J Alper]

Conclusion 

I run the car hard now for over a hour, before i could run hard for 15-20 minutes and then staring hard at the warning lights and gauges  was at 190-210 water temp and would let out at 310 oil temp and then stop at 325 oil temp 

Ran 3 times as long and water at its highest point was 155-165  and oil was 225 but mostly ran around 190-200 oil temp

This is with NO oil cooler,  just getting oil away from a hot block,   

 

[DTA]

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[L.R.S.]

With the tank mounted like that and the remote fill tube how do you check the level?  Full level should be 1" to 1/2" below the baffel.  That's what I've been told by Danzio, Redline and a few others.

 

[J Alper]

Question, and maybe it relates or not and maybe you have the answer.

On our old TT, we had a dry sump small block with I think a 5 stage pump.

I was told by all the old school guys who were also my builders, to crank the engine with ignition off until I built a bump of oil pressure.

Do all you guys in the Sandcar world do the same thing?

Also the new speed UTV is dry sump and I'm assuming since it will be driven 95% by donkeys, there's not going to be a separate ignition switch to enable this to be done.

Is this needed at all since once the engine fires you get oil pressure almost immediately?

Something I always wondered if I was just putting unneeded wear on my expensive starters. 

With todays oils, with motors we where only going to run the block, we ran a motor with Mobil one for 5 minutes drained it and then with no filter started it back up, we let it run for 10 minutes, at IDLE, and put oil back in it,  

Oil pressure was the Same, 

Funny thing was the idle went from 850-RPM to 1700-RPM-No oil 

Also advanced questions - Dailey, ARE, and Aviaid are great to deal with, they will answer any tech question, in detail, they have been a great help on this, for us,  

and Daily has a Q and A page with a lot of info including Plumbing, 

On a oil change I do remove the belt and suck the oil pan dry, with the drain plug out of the tank, I run the pump with a drill,         When i fill the tank back up i run the drill and the drill on hi will show 80lbs of oil pressure,  then slip the belt back on, 

With the tank mounted like that and the remote fill tube how do you check the level?  Full level should be 1" to 1/2" below the baffel.  That's what I've been told by Danzio, Redline and a few others.

Talking with ARE and Dailey,  and called Peterson, they told me to be a little lower than 2/3 depending on how many whellies,    I welded a neck on my tank so it is harder for oil to slosh up to the breather,    My breather looks like it has zero oil in it,  

I welded a sight Glass about 1'' below the baffle and when the motor is running i add oil to the tank at middle of the sight glass,  

Now each pump is different, mine is a Gear Drive not a roots scavenge, so mine has to be at around 2000 rpms for about 30 seconds before the pan is empty,  then i check the site glass, 

Justin Farmer has a non modified Petersons tank and he uses a dipstick at the top of the tank,  He has a dailey with roots scavenge so sure it will read easier, 

on mine the tank is higher than the pump, so oil will slowly drain into the pan when the motor is off,  i would let it run for a minute before checking the oil, 

A lot of this has been a learning experience the past couple of months,    Would love to hear everyone experiences,  

 

[J Alper]

sight glass 

 

[J Alper]

Not to be confused but there is Peterson Tanks and Paterson tanks 

Paterson makes some nice tanks 

 

[J Alper]

Dry Sump can be affordable used tanks on ebay $100 

Saldana Racing Aluminum Dry Sump Tank, 6 Inch Round (speedwaymotors.com) $329

obp Motorsport 2.5 Gallon Alloy Dry Sump Tank | OBPDS04 (vividracing.com) $222

Allstar Performance ALL36101: Dry Sump Tank 16 in - JEGS High Performance $300

oil pans LS 

convert your oil pan for $110 dollars Canton Racing Products 20-720A Canton Racing Oil Pan Pickups | Summit Racing

or new pan 

Dry Sump Oil Pans LS CHEVROLET 1-9 at Replacement Parts | Page 2 of 3 (aviaid.com) $329  

Pump with pulley 3 stage $1300  

So far we can still do this under 2k,    

 

[L.R.S.]

sight glass 

View attachment 27562

Ok, so the car has to be filled while sitting level and can only be checked accurately while sitting level. I appreciate the ingenuity but I'm not a fan of this set up. I prepped a Racer years ago that had a Danzio engine and they welded in a threaded dip stick tube to the side of the dry sump tank. Worked well. 

I've made several dip sticks for clients with dry sump engines using a piece of welding rod with hash marks for High and Low levels.

 

[DTA]

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