CVT possibilities

Johnny

Johnny

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I have thought about this for years, I see guys pumping 3,4,500 hundred H/P into these CVT side x side transmissions and they seem to hang in there for the most part, Sure you have to change a belt maybe a couple times a year and a clutch every so often. Why has anyone not converted one of these, inplace of a 091 VW box that cost a lot of money any only last about 3 years. Perhaps someone has, but I haven't seen one. I believe it could save us some money . I know there would be a lot of fab work involved but it might be worth it.

 
What's the cost of a SxS CVT when compared to a prepped 091? Can the engine be installed in the same orientation? And why would you even want to? A 2D would be the logical upgrade not a SxS trans. 

500hp? Not for very long.

 
Good answer , I have never purchased a CVT transmission and don't know the cost, I do know the cost of a rebuilt 091 fully built to the hilt transmission and that's about 4 grand & thats with a used case built in the 70's  to handle 100 H/P, A 2D is great but won't hang much longer then a 091. I have been running these boxes for 20 + years and just thinking out of the box. Just throwing it out there to see if anyone else has been thinking out of the box. I think someday someone will take the challenge . I mentioned that fab work would have to be designed because of the orientation but if you have the fab skills this could be done. Thanks for the reply  

 
A 2D won’t last much longer than an 091?

Weddle was thinking outside the box when they engineered the HV24. 10” ring gear, 27mm wide forward gears with bearing support between them, tapered roller thrust bearings, internal oil pump and a fully usable reverse. It’s rated at 550 hp. At $9000 it’s a bargain. 

 
There was a rzr with a subi and a transaxel at the sand show a few years ago and a rzr with a ls and transaxel at the swing set in glamis a couple years ago. but why?

 
Why would you put a golf-cart squishy CVT transmission on any badass high performance vehicle? I own a couple SXS but there is no way I’m giving up that third peddle and banging gears over 500hp

 
the cvt run at high rpm and low  torque compared to a vw engine dont kmow how well it would hold up. and you would still need a transmission for reverse and the dif. 

 
Well I was thinking way out of the box i guess, I am looking for any alternatives , I know a 2d would be better than a 091 built box . It's just amazing how these side x sides can handle the power some of these guys throw at them, I know they break but do they break them as often as we break a 091. Like i said just thinking out of the box and thought i would ask. Anyone have any good 091 cases laying around ,lol.

Jersey_Jeff73 said:
Jersey_Jeff73 said:
the cvt run at high rpm and low  torque compared to a vw engine dont kmow how well it would hold up. and you would still need a transmission for reverse and the dif. 
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Yeah the Predator X18 was a cool car, there was even a special class in most desert race series for it. All about gone now....

 
It's not that it wouldn't or couldn't work, but would require some ground up design clutches and gearbox to handle the low RPM torque of an LS engine. This is very costly to design and produce (ask me how we know this from the HV-2 project). These would also have to be very large components and require some intensive cooling features. 

The SxS CVT systems work pretty good these days, but the torque curve is high up in the RPM range and doesn't really have the low end grunt that an LS engine has, which is what is hard on drive train components. These cars are also relatively light compared to a full bodied, moderately powered sand car.

It will also affect the way the car drives and how the power gets to the ground, and drive more like an automatic would. We have had a few cars over the years try the Albins with a torque converter like a class 1 car has, but the drivers did not care for the way they got power to the ground.

 
all of these 2021 cars have CVTs
I haven't looked under the hoods on any of these but the Subaru probably has the best chance to work in a buggy due to the front engine (not transverse) layout being more similar to the VW/Weddle/Mendi/Albins transaxle design

  • Buick: Encore GX
  • Chevrolet: Malibu, Trailblazer, Spark
  • Chrysler: Pacifica Hybrid (plug-in hybrid)
  • Ford: Escape Hybrid, Escape Plug-in Hybrid
  • Honda: Accord, Accord Hybrid, Civic, Clarity Plug-in Hybrid, CR-V, CR-V Hybrid, HR-V, Insight
  • Hyundai: Accent, Elantra, Venue
  • Infiniti: QX50
  • Kia: Forte, Rio, Seltos, Soul
  • Lexus: ES 300h, NX 300h, RX 450h, RX 450hL, UX 250h
  • Lincoln: Corsair Grand Touring (PHEV)
  • Mitsubishi: Mirage, Mirage G4, Outlander PHEV, Outlander Sport
  • Nissan: Altima, Kicks, Maxima, Murano, NV200, Rogue, Rogue Sport, Sentra, Versa
  • Subaru: Ascent, Crosstrek, Crosstrek Hybrid (PHEV), Forester, Impreza, Legacy, Outback
  • Toyota: Avalon Hybrid, C-HR, Camry Hybrid, Corolla, Corolla Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid, Prius, Prius Prime (PHEV), RAV4 Hybrid, RAV4 Prime (PHEV), Sienna, Venza
 
If you really want to go with a SxS transmission, go with the Honda Talon DCT. I hear it can handle up to 500 hp and you can paddle shift it. 
And best of all, no belt!

 
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FOG said:
If you really want to go with a SxS transmission, go with the Honda Talon DCT. I hear it can handle up to 500 hp and you can paddle shift it. 
And best of all, no belt!
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I drank some of that Kool-Aide once. I think I laughed at 5- 10 belts getting changed out at $120 each before I got my first shaft drive real transmission for of almost $2200.00 fix.

I spent more money fixing/ Upgrading shaft, ring & pinion problems on my Yamaha in the three years I had it than everyone else in the group spent on belts combined.  I will take the cheap ass belts that can be changed out in less than 2 beer stop over getting towed out once , let alone 3 times.

To the OP a CVT transmission is about the same as the repairs on the buggy's about $3K if you break one. As long as you don't try and force them into gear though we have yet to see one break, but if it wants to grind for whatever reason. It will cost you when it does break.

 
While the Talon DCT is somewhat beefed up versus the Pioneer, there ain't no way those clutches will reliably hold 500 HP. No way.

 
Dune-Track-N said:
all of these 2021 cars have CVTs
I haven't looked under the hoods on any of these but the Subaru probably has the best chance to work in a buggy due to the front engine (not transverse) layout being more similar to the VW/Weddle/Mendi/Albins transaxle design

  • Buick: Encore GX
  • Chevrolet: Malibu, Trailblazer, Spark
  • Chrysler: Pacifica Hybrid (plug-in hybrid)
  • Ford: Escape Hybrid, Escape Plug-in Hybrid
  • Honda: Accord, Accord Hybrid, Civic, Clarity Plug-in Hybrid, CR-V, CR-V Hybrid, HR-V, Insight
  • Hyundai: Accent, Elantra, Venue
  • Infiniti: QX50
  • Kia: Forte, Rio, Seltos, Soul
  • Lexus: ES 300h, NX 300h, RX 450h, RX 450hL, UX 250h
  • Lincoln: Corsair Grand Touring (PHEV)
  • Mitsubishi: Mirage, Mirage G4, Outlander PHEV, Outlander Sport
  • Nissan: Altima, Kicks, Maxima, Murano, NV200, Rogue, Rogue Sport, Sentra, Versa
  • Subaru: Ascent, Crosstrek, Crosstrek Hybrid (PHEV), Forester, Impreza, Legacy, Outback
  • Toyota: Avalon Hybrid, C-HR, Camry Hybrid, Corolla, Corolla Hybrid, Highlander Hybrid, Prius, Prius Prime (PHEV), RAV4 Hybrid, RAV4 Prime (PHEV), Sienna, Venza
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Pretty sure none of those really are CVT's (can only speak about the '22 Corolla (daughter's car) and '22 Outback (son's car)) but they are normal auto transmissions and they lock/unlock the converter to seem like it is CVT.  There is no way any of those transaxles will live in a sand car.  A weddle 2d has a 9" ring gear and they only last so long with 500hp through them.  Look at how much HP the drag guys are running through a Ford 9".  You can get an auto transaxle for a sandrail if you really want one.  IDK how well they work in the sand (heard they run hot), but some of the desert guys run them.

 
The Subarus are a CVT that they tune to make stepped shifts to make it feel like a gearbox. Automotive CVTs do have a torque converter and a lockup clutch, and run a metal belt.



 
29 minutes ago, 1HasBeen said:

The Subarus are a CVT that they tune to make stepped shifts to make it feel like a gearbox. Automotive CVTs do have a torque converter and a lockup clutch, and run a metal belt.

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Off topic question: Is there a tune available that takes away the stepped shifts and lets the Subaru CVT run like an actual CVT - and also tightens up the bottom end and throttle response?

 
RayClay said:
Off topic question: Is there a tune available that takes away the stepped shifts and lets the Subaru CVT run like an actual CVT - and also tightens up the bottom end and throttle response?
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No idea. I know my SIL has a 20 Outback and it is definitely "slushier" than her 18 was. My BIL finds it very annoying, and also doesn't care for the faux stepping. We came within a whisker of a 20 Turbo Outback, but couldn't get a decent deal. They are a nice car, for sure. I do think they are losing their identity as Toyota gets in deeper and deeper.

 
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