Clutch arm issues

Cable Guy

Cable Guy

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I have a S4S with a Kennedy dual disc clutch. Recently I have been having issues with clutch arm on tranny returning all the way. I can push the clutch pedal in 3 or 4 times than nothing. Go back to Trans and there is a ton of slack on my slave and the clutch arm is half depressed. I can push arm back with my hand but I hear a clunk inside. Anyone else ever have this issue?

I take it I’m pulling motor to see if I damaged throughout or pressure plate?

 
Slave is sticking, easy to take apart and clean. You will have to bleed the system afterwards 

 
I thought the Slave just pulled the clutch arm forward to engage clutch and the spring on the arm along with pressure plate is what releases clutch and pulls arm back???

 
Been there and done that. New slave and did bleed the system.

That’s when I started looking a little closer and verified the Slave is a pulling only device. It has nothing to do with the clutch arm returning to its operating position.

From what I can see the only thing that makes the clutch arm return, is the spring behind the arm and the pressure plate.

In less something can restrict the arm on the inside of the trans like a bushing or bearing???

 
I'd suggest replacing the slave for around $150 before pulling the engine.  Could be just that simple.  If it doesn't solve the issue at least you have a new slave.  

This is what the TO bearing looks like in your S4.  There is no bearing, just a slider the TO slides on.

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if after a few pumps you find "slack" at the slave then its not the slave because at that point its out of the picture.   sounds like what you are seeing is that the slave could be removed and the arm is still stuck half way ? if so then .... the spring pressure of the pressure plate should easily be able to return the TO fork/arm back. the external springs helps even more.  

My vote is you have contaminated grease inside the TO bearing and its sticking on the inputs shaft collar.  this will require motor removal.  it could also be the fork bushings, or possibly the external spring popped out of place

if grease is pasty or packed with sand--make sure the imi starter has all the holes sealed with silicone00super easy thing to forget to do

 
I was afraid of something like that. The external spring was the first thing I checked, hoping I would get lucky.

The clunk I heard inside the bell housing when I pushed back the clutch arm can never be a good thing.

I just wanted a second opinion before I start pulling the motor. Looks like I have a little work to do before the New Year’s trip.

Thanks for all the input

 
I just had the bushing on the throw out bearing arm on my 2d seize up and was acting very similar to this. That spring is not very strong and with trans removed you should be able to move back and forth by hand. I couldn't move mine with a 2' pipe on the end!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
L.R.S. said:
I'd suggest replacing the slave for around $150 before pulling the engine.  Could be just that simple.  If it doesn't solve the issue at least you have a new slave.  

This is what the TO bearing looks like in your S4.  There is no bearing, just a slider the TO slides on.

View attachment 20548

View attachment 20549

View attachment 20550
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im not a V8 guy but what is that ring on the pressure plate? at the center of the diaphragm,   is that something new?  maybe its a spacer for the V8 belhousing? 

 
John@Outfront said:
im not a V8 guy but what is that ring on the pressure plate? at the center of the diaphragm,   is that something new?  maybe its a spacer for the V8 belhousing? 
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Some engines need that ring on the pressure plate and some don't. 

 
L.R.S. said:
Some engines need that ring on the pressure plate and some don't. 
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That ring I believe is dependent on what throw out bearing you have. If you have a flat throw out bearing you need that ring on your pressure plate. 

 
Jtmoney714 said:
That ring I believe is dependent on what throw out bearing you have. If you have a flat throw out bearing you need that ring on your pressure plate. 
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There is a early and late model throw out bearing. The early model throw out bearings required the ring on the pressure plate and the late model does not. However, in the above pictures, that is a late model throw out bearing and it also has the ring. I have not seen that combo before. The ring in the picture also has a larger ID which allows it to slide over the TOB guide tube mounted on the tranny. 

 
Just to be clear on the pictures I posted- this is @Dzrtrat1111 Mendeola S4. It had the wrong bell housing when I got the car and I was trying to figure out what was wrong. His bell housing was for a small  block Chevy which he and I were unaware of that until @Sean@Weddle pointed it out to us. The correct LS bell housing was swapped out and the ring was removed from the pressure plate making it the late model VW style. 

 
L.R.S. said:
Just to be clear on the pictures I posted- this is @Dzrtrat1111 Mendeola S4. It had the wrong bell housing when I got the car and I was trying to figure out what was wrong. His bell housing was for a small  block Chevy which he and I were unaware of that until @Sean@Weddle pointed it out to us. The correct LS bell housing was swapped out and the ring was removed from the pressure plate making it the late model VW style. 
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that clears up that question--thanks

 
Cable Guy said:
I thought the Slave just pulled the clutch arm forward to engage clutch and the spring on the arm along with pressure plate is what releases clutch and pulls arm back???
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I think you're thinking about it backwards.  At rest, without intervention from the throwout bearing the clutch is engaged.  When you push the clutch pedal down, the master is obviously depressed and transfers that motion via the hydraulic fluid (brake fluid generally) to the slave, which then pushes (not pulls) the clutch fork and therefore the throwout bearing.  The throwout depresses the fingers on the pressure plate diaphragm spring, which *relieves* the pressure on the clutch disc(s) disengaging the clutch. 

-TJ

 
tjZ06 said:
I think you're thinking about it backwards.  At rest, without intervention from the throwout bearing the clutch is engaged.  When you push the clutch pedal down, the master is obviously depressed and transfers that motion via the hydraulic fluid (brake fluid generally) to the slave, which then pushes (not pulls) the clutch fork and therefore the throwout bearing.  The throwout depresses the fingers on the pressure plate diaphragm spring, which *relieves* the pressure on the clutch disc(s) disengaging the clutch. 

-TJ
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you are both right.......externally when the clutch pedal is depressed (in a rear engine setup) the lever external of the tranny goes forward (the slave cylinder is shrinking in length) but on the inside of the bellhousing the fork is going towards the pressure plate, disengaging the engine from the tranny

 
John@Outfront said:
you are both right.......externally when the clutch pedal is depressed (in a rear engine setup) the lever external of the tranny goes forward (the slave cylinder is shrinking in length) but on the inside of the bellhousing the fork is going towards the pressure plate, disengaging the engine from the tranny
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I guess I haven't had an external slave car in too long (Potter had an internal slave setup on the big-bellhousing PBS and Funco is an Albins).  I stand corrected on the direction of the slave. 😉

-TJ

 
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