Class A models
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Punchdrunk Monkey
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Do you have issues with camping spots? We do a lot of beach camping and some of the spots are small.
tjZ06
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100% agree, that was my biggest complaint with it. FWIW I think I paid about 162k for mine brand-new (you should always be paying 24-28% off MSRP in the RV world). If I was getting another I'd look hard at the Renegade Veracruz which at the time offered a very similar (identical) floorplan to our SV34 Magintude, it just was missing the outdoor kitchen. I feel like Renegade quality is a lot better. However, I was just looking at it seems like Renegade dropped everything but a little 30' overall length Veracruz for 2022 (or their website just sucks, which is very possible).
-TJ
tjZ06
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I've had coaches with slides on just one side (our '09 Fleetwood Soutwind 34G and our '21 Thor Magnitude SV34) and both sides ('17 Dutch Star 4018 and current '19 Mountain Aire 4018). While I'll say that the slides on just one side thing was nicer in some of the tighter parks we go to, you def feel the difference not having opposing-slides in a rig. The thing about an opposing-slide floorplan that's done right, is it gives you the best of both worlds. When you only have room for slides on 1-side, a good opposing-slide floorplan will be designed to work with just one side out (and it "should" be the driver's side, aka off-curb side since you generally don't want slides out on the curb or camp side in tight spaces). This is my floorplan ('cept I have free-standing recliners with an end table between them on the driver's side vs. the "chase lounge"):
With all 3 slides in, it is not really "livable." The foot of the master bed ends up tucked underneath the wardrobes on either side of the TV, making it a bit shorter than normal. You can sleep on it, but it's not ideal (I've done it on long hauls when I just want to get a couple hour nap in). You also have to climb over the bed to get to the master bath if you want to shower. However, you CAN get into the half bath and you CAN get the fridge fully opened even with everything closed up. This means your companions can use the restroom or make you a sammich on the road.
Now, in a tighter RV spot you can make the RV fully functional with either putting out the the full wall slide on the driver's side, or both of the passenger side slides. My preference is the driver's side FWS, again in a tight spot you usually don't want slides sticking out into "camp." Also, you don't notice the floor being raised with the 2 smaller slides in, but you do notice it a lot w/ the FWS in.
Anyway... my point is I *do* agree only having to deploy slides on one side in tight spots is a big plus - but I'd always take an opposing-slide floorplan that gives you the option of doing that, or opening the whole thing up. IMHO the worst floorplan designs are ones that have non-opposing slides on both sides. Here's an example, one of the other Magnitude Floorplans:
IMHO these are the worst. You need just as wide of a space as an opposing-slide floorplan, yet you don't get the open living space feel of opposing-slides. To be fair to this EXACT floorplan, I've walked it and the bedroom is fully usable with the bed-slide in (you just can't walk around the bed) but why do it like this!?!?! Why not flip the bedroom so the slide is on the same side as the kitchen/living slide and just make it a FWS? The absolute worst would be one where you HAVE to deploy slides on both sides to make it "livable," yet the slides aren't opposing. I'm sure there's some argument for them, but I just can't fathom it...
-TJ
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Punchdrunk Monkey
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That's good info @tjZ06 The Tiffin Open Roads are like your lower picture. Bedroom is opposite side of the living room.
I'll definitely look at how the slides work in and out. We did look at one the other day that had the opposing slides and it does make the room huge!
I'll definitely look at how the slides work in and out. We did look at one the other day that had the opposing slides and it does make the room huge!
A few things to know. Tiffin was just bought out by Thor. Only time will tell if they leave Tiffin alone and continue the Tiffin quality & support, or do they dismantle the quality for profit?
Also Winnebago bought Newmar but it seems Winnebago understands and Newmar will be left alone and continue to be the quality they are known for.
And just my experiences and knowledge from a few who have these RV’s or worked in the RV repair industry. Try to stay away from floor plans that put the refrigerator in the slide if possible. When the refrigerators in the slide the venting is in the side walls of the slide vs having it vent out the roof. Some of the issues are that in hot weather, the heat is not pulled out efficiently, and the they don’t stay cool. Sometimes adding extra fans pulling the air out fixes the issue. Also another issue found is the refrigerator not holding temps when driving down the highway. Again they think the air moving along the side of the rv body when going down the highway creates pressure and does not allow the air to get pulled out the upper side vent. This is also more prominent in RV’s with Residential fridges vs the RV fridge, but even those have issues. The people I know with fridges in slides and have issues are a Montana 5th wheel travel trailer. (Adding 2 extra fans fixed their issues) Tiffin DP with Resi fridge has had lots of fixes and still has issues at times. (Fixed wall ducting, extra fans, wind deflector on the outside vent cover.) if it’s hot out he removes the two outside vent covers and that helps allot. And the last I know has a Thor Keystone. It’s got a RV fridge and while it works, it never gets really cold and the freezer does not keep food frozen over several days.
Also Winnebago bought Newmar but it seems Winnebago understands and Newmar will be left alone and continue to be the quality they are known for.
And just my experiences and knowledge from a few who have these RV’s or worked in the RV repair industry. Try to stay away from floor plans that put the refrigerator in the slide if possible. When the refrigerators in the slide the venting is in the side walls of the slide vs having it vent out the roof. Some of the issues are that in hot weather, the heat is not pulled out efficiently, and the they don’t stay cool. Sometimes adding extra fans pulling the air out fixes the issue. Also another issue found is the refrigerator not holding temps when driving down the highway. Again they think the air moving along the side of the rv body when going down the highway creates pressure and does not allow the air to get pulled out the upper side vent. This is also more prominent in RV’s with Residential fridges vs the RV fridge, but even those have issues. The people I know with fridges in slides and have issues are a Montana 5th wheel travel trailer. (Adding 2 extra fans fixed their issues) Tiffin DP with Resi fridge has had lots of fixes and still has issues at times. (Fixed wall ducting, extra fans, wind deflector on the outside vent cover.) if it’s hot out he removes the two outside vent covers and that helps allot. And the last I know has a Thor Keystone. It’s got a RV fridge and while it works, it never gets really cold and the freezer does not keep food frozen over several days.
ElCaminoManT
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@tjZ06is right about the slide setup. Our 40AD Winnie has opposing living slides and the bedroom slide is on the curb side. I tend to only extend the camp side slide on longer trips and/or when I'm in a campsite that has the room. Because it does not have a sofa or other seating (other than the dining table) and isn't a particularly deep slide, when it's not extended, it doesn't feel cramped at all. It's basically a large buffet setup on that side with a really long counter with the entertainment center at the front part and the fridge and pantry at the back part. When they're both extended tho, it's amazing how roomy it becomes for it only being about 18" deep. The motorhome is completely usable with all the slides in, although one does have to climb over the bed to get to the closet or extend the bedroom slide to open the dresser drawers. The main living slide is a 'level out' style meaning it drops down when fully extended for flush floor so when it is in, there is a substantial difference in floor height and you're sitting REALLY close to the TV :lol: (note to add the couch and lounge chair have been removed in our rig and replaced with two very nice Lazyboy recliners and a table cabinet thingy between them)
I can also agree with @NIKALregarding the refrigerator placement. Ours is in the camp side slide and it can be fussy sometimes. Unless it's really hot, it seems pretty reliable however I've found it works best on propane and like garbage on 120v. It could also be that it's a nevercold 1200....
I can also agree with @NIKALregarding the refrigerator placement. Ours is in the camp side slide and it can be fussy sometimes. Unless it's really hot, it seems pretty reliable however I've found it works best on propane and like garbage on 120v. It could also be that it's a nevercold 1200....
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tjZ06
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I'm confused... you say the venting issue is *more* prominent with residential fridges than RV fridges? I disagree. The last sentence of your reply seems to contradict what I underlined, as well.
My Dutch Star, Magnitude and Mountain Aire (and the Envy 5th Wheel Toy Hauler I had) have all been residential fridges, every single one was on a slide, and to my knowledge NONE of them had any sort of vents. Do you have a vent for your residential fridge in your house? IMHO this is one of the MANY reasons to go residential fridge. I've never had the slightest issue w/ my resi fridges not staying cool, again that is another benefit of them. In fact, I find the resi fridges get colder way quicker, and hold way more consistent temps. With a resi fridge you don't have the problem of your bags of salad or eggs freezing just to keep the ice from melting in the freezer.
Also, my Dutch Star and the Magnitude were mostly black paint jobs, which I'm sure didn't help. I finally got a little smarter and bought a lighter colored RV this time with the Mountain Aire... you'd think I would have figured out browns are better for a camping in dirt/sand, but I'm special like that. Anyway, with all of these I never had an issue with the Residential fridges, even on hot days with the slide that contained the fridge facing the sun. Are you sure you're not confusing a residential fridge with an RV fridge?
IMHO, I would *not* even consider an RV that doesn't have a residential fridge at this point. And if you can make it happen, I'd really go with an "all electric" package where there is no propane on board. They always call them all-electric, but what it really means is the fridge is a residential, the cooktop is induction, the oven is a convection oven (prob the only downside) and it uses a diesel-fired heater (Oasis or Aquahot) for heat and hot water. To me, it's way better than having propane and having to find places with enough room for an RV (or RV + trailer) to refill propane at. Plus, the diesel-fired heaters barely use any fuel, so you can have heat even in the coldest weather for long, loooooong stays with no concerns of running out. With my Southwind that was a traditional propane rig, for longer stays in G in Dec/Jan we had to use an "extend a stay" and swap standard propane bottles all the time, because we'd use up the RV's tank.
BTW, speaking of colors I think it's actually something worth considering and discussing. I love darker RVs for the looks, and when they're clean they're the most gangster. And when shopping used RVs, I know color is often the last consideration. This was my Dutch Star:
I had the wheels PC'ed black and removed most of the badges. It got compliments everywhere, and definitely set it apart from the old folks at the RV parks and it looked bad ass when it was clean (if I do say so myself). However, for somebody that goes to G and other off road destinations it was kind of a nightmare. I said I wouldn't get another black RV when I sold it, but then I got this Magnitude:
Once again, it looked great clean, and I had plans to do the wheels black, de-badge it, get all the trailer bright-work blacked out etc. I never got around to that before changing it up again. The current Mountain Aire:
The MA colors are actually growing on me, but it's definitely more of a traditional old folks look. I haven't even de-badged it or PC'ed the wheels, and this time I really don't think I will. As much as I loved the DS looks, I'm happier with these colors. I think it helps with cooling the rig, and it can get caught in a wind/sand storm in G and from a distance it still doesn't look dirty.
I like the long buffet kind of deal. We've thought about taking out the couch on the curb-side of our RV and having it replaced with more of a buffet like you described, with 2 dog crates built in below. The biggest problem with that on our floorplan is that couch folds out into the only other bed. I suppose it prevents having to have guests, but it also is kind of lame to have a 40' RV and not be able to accommodate a guest (other than an air mattress directly on the floor). Not a great pic, but this is our living room/kitchen:
It looks kinda short in this pic, but the couch on the left is a full 3-4 person couch that folds out and is a queen bed. It'd make a nice buffet right by the kitchen, plus give us the permanent dog crate area.
-TJ
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Punchdrunk Monkey
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@tjZ06 How do you like the table/workstation as opposed to a dinette? I think we want the dinette for when the kids are with us. But in our current motorhome, we don't really ever sit 4 of us there to eat. We always eat outside. We are looking at an Open Road this weekend that has the table/workstation.
As for colors- The black or darkers colors look cool but was thinking that they would look dirty all the time. I agree the browns look "old". I was worried about the darker colors making the coach hot. All the newer ones are dark colored so I guess that might not be an issue.
Res Fridge- I really like the idea of a res fridge. It is one of my boxes I want to check off. What if you don't have solar panels? From what I was reading, the fridge will drain 4 6v batteries in a day and a half. Right now, we primitive camp probably 80% of the time. I am guessing that will change once we retire and travel. I am not a big generator runner. No one wants to listen to my generator running every day. Or at least I don't want to hear others running all day.
As for colors- The black or darkers colors look cool but was thinking that they would look dirty all the time. I agree the browns look "old". I was worried about the darker colors making the coach hot. All the newer ones are dark colored so I guess that might not be an issue.
Res Fridge- I really like the idea of a res fridge. It is one of my boxes I want to check off. What if you don't have solar panels? From what I was reading, the fridge will drain 4 6v batteries in a day and a half. Right now, we primitive camp probably 80% of the time. I am guessing that will change once we retire and travel. I am not a big generator runner. No one wants to listen to my generator running every day. Or at least I don't want to hear others running all day.
ElCaminoManT
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@Punchdrunk Monkey If not a residential fridge, at least consider the 12v compressor RV fridge. I think it's kind of becoming the norm anyway. Buddy has one in his Grand Design Transend and it's impressive. Gets to temp super fast and even tho it is a single door size, it has basically the internal size of a traditional double door RV propane/120v fridge.
@tjZ06 We really like the buffet style setup with the table/work station in front of it. With the slide extended and the table leaf in place, 4 can comfortably sit at the table. It also offers a lot of additional storage. The only draw back is the lack of lounge seating and sleeping. Because the factory couch and lounge chair have been removed, there is zero additional sleeping options other than an air mattress. For us it's a moot point, it's only my wife and I in our rig and everyone in our group and family that likes to camp has their own RV. I can totally see the drawback tho if one has kids or folks that stay with them on the regular. I'll have to quote @HEADINJURY for a famous line here: "drinks for 6, dinner for 4, bed for 2" (or something like that
)
@tjZ06 We really like the buffet style setup with the table/work station in front of it. With the slide extended and the table leaf in place, 4 can comfortably sit at the table. It also offers a lot of additional storage. The only draw back is the lack of lounge seating and sleeping. Because the factory couch and lounge chair have been removed, there is zero additional sleeping options other than an air mattress. For us it's a moot point, it's only my wife and I in our rig and everyone in our group and family that likes to camp has their own RV. I can totally see the drawback tho if one has kids or folks that stay with them on the regular. I'll have to quote @HEADINJURY for a famous line here: "drinks for 6, dinner for 4, bed for 2" (or something like that
)
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So you had me thinking and I made a phone call. Your correct I have it wrong. The Tiffin Red 360 which I thought had a Resi fridge actually has a 12v Compressor style, which does have a circulation fan internally to move air like a Resi vs the traditional RV fridge. You can hear the fan running, which is why I assumed it was the Resi. This RV does have venting in the slide and has had a ton of work done to make it work. The owner of this RV had Bob Tiffin on speed dial. When they ordered this RV from Tiffin, it was suggested they go with this style as they could use propane when dry camping which is what this RV did most.
The other two trailers have traditional RV fridges in their slides.
ElCaminoManT
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Interesting. My friend's trailer has the 12v only fridge and there is no exterior venting, only inside below and above the fridge. :huh:
Yeah I don’t know then? He said his was a 12v /propane fridge? (I originally thought it was a Resi) Per Tiffin it was suppose to be the ticket for what he wanted. He’s heading to Phoenix on Thursday for NASCAR. He said he’s bringing the cooler for just in case it craps out again. Lol!
tjZ06
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We had the Dinette in the Dutch Star, and the table/chairs in this Mountain Aire. Otherwise they are the same floorplan (4018) and layout is nearly identical (half-bath was changed a bit). I'd say it's one of those six one way, half-a-dozen the other type of things. We specifically ordered the DS w/ the dinette but when we were looking for the MA we were shopping used so we were more flexible. Now that I've had both, I like the table arrangement better, but neither would be a deal-breaker for me.
The dinette is a bit comfier for 2, and had decently long pull-out drawers under it that gave nice storage. It was a bit tight for 4 actually sitting at in the dinette (as opposed to extending the table and putting up the extra-folding chairs it comes with). The dinette also stuck out into the walkway when everything was closed up making it a bit tighter getting back to the half bath on the road.
The table isn't as comfy per say, but it feels more spacious sitting at it (obviously you can determine your own distance from the table, unlike the dinette). There are additional chairs and leaves in both layouts, but obviously it flows/works better with the table/chair config. While you lose the under-seat storage of the dinette, the table/chairs means more cabinets along the wall. If you were working from the RV I think the free-standing table would be better, it's designed for that and has a place a printer could go and a file cabinet. I actually don't remember off the top of my head, but I think it has a pullout laptop/keyboard tray too if you want to put a monitor on the counter top along the wall vs. using the table itself.
Like you, we don't eat inside much when in the RV. What we find is we end up using the table more as a serving area/buffet, and in that use case it's nice to just move the chairs out of the way which you can't do w/ the dinette.
As for colors, yes darker ones will absorb heat, there's no way around that. I could feel the heat radiating from the walls in the Magnitude, whereas I really didn't in the Dutch Star even though it was also black. You'll really notice it in the wall cabinets, even when the AC is on and it's nice in the coach the inside of the wall cabinets in the Magnitude could be hot 'nough to melt the chocolate chips in cookies lol. The quality of insulation and construction does factor in a lot, IMHO. Also, IIRC the Magnitude had 2 ACs but it was a 12.5k and 15k and it couldn't keep up when it hit upper 80s. The DS only had 2 ACs as well but both were 15ks and kept up very well. Our MA has 3 15k ACs and can make it an ice box in any weather. The one place you do still feel the heat though, is up front by the giant windshield. Magne Shades make a HUGE difference for that.
With respect to the residential fridge issue, no, I don't have solar (other than one tiny panel that's just a trickle charger for the chassis batteries). We have 8 large 6V deep cycle house batteries (in addition to the 2 chassis batteries). I thought about adding solar (we already have solar prep) but the reality is, we either camp at parks with full hookups, or if we're dry-camping we run the genny enough during the day for AC that solar would do us no good. The places we dry camp are basically Glamis, Moonrocks etc. where the generator noise during the day isn't a big deal. We don't use this RV for dispersed camping in the traditional sense.
"Drinks for 6, dinner for 4, bed for 2" - I love that! That's where we'd be if we do have the couch taken out and do a buffet/crates and I'm totally okay with that. Lol. Of course, I say that and then we do things like NASCAR where I'll want to be able to have another couple stay... but an air mattress is pretty NASCAR if you ask me!@Punchdrunk Monkey If not a residential fridge, at least consider the 12v compressor RV fridge. I think it's kind of becoming the norm anyway. Buddy has one in his Grand Design Transend and it's impressive. Gets to temp super fast and even tho it is a single door size, it has basically the internal size of a traditional double door RV propane/120v fridge.
@tjZ06 We really like the buffet style setup with the table/work station in front of it. With the slide extended and the table leaf in place, 4 can comfortably sit at the table. It also offers a lot of additional storage. The only draw back is the lack of lounge seating and sleeping. Because the factory couch and lounge chair have been removed, there is zero additional sleeping options other than an air mattress. For us it's a moot point, it's only my wife and I in our rig and everyone in our group and family that likes to camp has their own RV. I can totally see the drawback tho if one has kids or folks that stay with them on the regular. I'll have to quote @HEADINJURY for a famous line here: "drinks for 6, dinner for 4, bed for 2" (or something like that
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Word. IMHO Residential is the ONLY way to go. Even for dry camping, just have a large battery bank and some solar.
BTW, found some pics of the interior of the coaches... Mountain Aire with the table/chairs:
Vs. the Dutch Star with dinette:
As a side-note, just like the darker exterior of the DS looking "cooler" I still like the super dark wood it had... but it looked dusty in there instantly.
-TJ
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MWB
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Here is the thing.
A refrigerator by design takes heat inside the box and removes it placing that heat outside the box. That is what it does.
In your house it has hundreds of square feet to disperse it from the coils on the back of the unit. To add in the dispersal they place it next to the stove so you notice it even less.
If you place it in a couple hundred square foot coach it's going to go someplace. If they don't vent it outside then your air conditioner will have to remove that heat as well as the rest of the heat in the coach. Not an impossible feat but it's still heat. It doesn't make CO2 or anything you need to worry about unlike a propane Fridge.
tjZ06
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That's a good point. And thinking about that, I went back and looked at this pic of my fridge:
There must be a vent on the side of the slide, since it's pretty tight all around the fridge, but I certainly don't see any (the fridge would be just aft of the largest window in the middle)....
The little thing next to the floodlight is just a camera for the 360 view stuff. No vent I see at all...
-TJ
MWB
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Your RV fridge is bigger than the one in my house hell it's even bigger then one I can put in my house.
Nothing on the top or bottom of the slide ?
