450hp-2D VS. 700+hp-S4...................

HP.Habits

HP.Habits

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A new build has some thoughts brewing I cant keep to myself anymore... So, to you keyboard duners I'll unload on.

As far as the unspoken title goes... Does a 450hp sand rail w/2D stand a chance out there against the best-of-the-best? What do you think?

A lot has evolved, and while the drags get louder and louder each year..... The silent call deep in the dunes still calls. I have seen many cars with what use to be loads of power, absolutely stomp on todays godzillas.... one has to ask though... in the right hands, how much power is really needed to hurt feelings. or is the real question, whos smoothest through the dunes and willing to risk it all.... 

 
my 450HP 2D car was a lot of fun, but my 800hp S4S car is a lot more fun.

The 450hp car is not gonna hurt any feelings at the drags, but should hang with the best of them in the dunes up to a limit.  

 
Depends on who's driving. In my old DD with a stock LS1 and 2D, very few people could actually run away from me in the dunes. VERY FEW. But I had to fix the 2D every season

Haven't driven my new car with the LS3/Albins yet. Will let you know

The drags interest me less than going to the dentist

 
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my goal is the 450HP with the S4 !  I just want dependability and FUN - which to me is  - Lots of headache free dune runs / Carne asada / cold beer / ATC 70 rides and Campfires....a little Poker and Karoke to top it off

OH,

And live in Glamis all season!

:poule:

 
If you can afford a Albins then you can afford a 2D, 2D is the most expensive transmission i have ever owned,  if never broke, but was a funnel of money,  my S4 is a Timex,  my best friend has a factory LS1 with hot cam, little more HP than a ls6 with a S4 built in 2008 and has never had to have it gone into, 

The only thing about a Dog box transaxle is a bad shift can roll a dog and it will have to be taken apart, 

I think the most reliable box is the HV-2 it has bigger gears like a S4 and is a Synchromes, trans 

Shaun at Weddle can answer the best,   

 
Suspension is just an important as the engine and trans - slower cars with better suspension can outrun faster cars in certain sections. A lightweight car with a good power to weight ratio coupled with dialed in suspension should be able to keep up with anyone.

 
wesinls said:
Suspension is just an important as the engine and trans - slower cars with better suspension can outrun faster cars in certain sections. A lightweight car with a good power to weight ratio coupled with dialed in suspension should be able to keep up with anyone.
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Or leave behind...

 
Ive had my fair share of wild runs through the dunes. My 3rd gen Funco was only 345hp on a 2d, and I had my share of F9s I had to wait for every couple dunes when leading.... I was pretty disappointed to be honest. Then theres times when following some of the fastest I know, and in between dunes on the straights, its when power becomes visually clear and the turns were the equalizer. My new car will have a 2.5 and 2D, but will be significantly lighter then the Gen 3, yet, with all similar specs... once finished and driving, it will go to Karl at Shock talk. I know its underpowered still (compared to most anything with an S4 competing), but thats where the "wreckers or checkers" mentality comes out..... really eager to see how it stacks against.   

 
I'm with Poule on this one. 450hp with the S4/S5 is the way I would go. But I'd replace the karaoke with fireworks.

 
Curious how many run the Weddle HV2 and how you like it. What are the pros / cons compared to an S4?

 
I can tell you this that my car is a ton of fun. I am about 490 at the wheel through a 2D. I dont bang on the gears but I have fun with it. Never driven a car with a sequential but two cars in my group have them and I keep up just fine. Once I went boosted I never looked back. More smiles per mile!

 
Liking this topic as its close to home for me too.  Just wondering.... when does too much shock come into play on a light weight car.  Is running 3.0's to much? Does the lack of corner weight start to become a problem as people upgrade from 2.0 to 2.5 then 3.0's etc.   I know the extra tubes can help provide better tuning but what happens when you over shock a car?

Talked with the MTS shock guys at the ssss. He recommended I see Karl as well.   I spoke with Karl last year but needed to get 14 inch shocks on my rear as the 16's were too long.

 
Grease Monkey said:
Liking this topic as its close to home for me too.  Just wondering.... when does too much shock come into play on a light weight car.  Is running 3.0's to much? Does the lack of corner weight start to become a problem as people upgrade from 2.0 to 2.5 then 3.0's etc.   I know the extra tubes can help provide better tuning but what happens when you over shock a car?

Talked with the MTS shock guys at the ssss. He recommended I see Karl as well.   I spoke with Karl last year but needed to get 14 inch shocks on my rear as the 16's were too long.
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This would be a great topic on its own. What’s the benefit from 2.5 to a 3.0 on a sand car. More tubes are obviously better but to what degree?

 
Grease Monkey said:
Liking this topic as its close to home for me too.  Just wondering.... when does too much shock come into play on a light weight car.  Is running 3.0's to much? Does the lack of corner weight start to become a problem as people upgrade from 2.0 to 2.5 then 3.0's etc.   I know the extra tubes can help provide better tuning but what happens when you over shock a car?

Talked with the MTS shock guys at the ssss. He recommended I see Karl as well.   I spoke with Karl last year but needed to get 14 inch shocks on my rear as the 16's were too long.
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Lot of cars have shocks too long: never going to be able to use the droop, and just sacrificing bump travel since the body is too long. 

Karl does good work, but leans towards handling whoops as priority. Make sure to go on test drives with him to dial in your preference and voice your complaints there so he can turn screws and address them.  

Jtmoney714 said:
This would be a great topic on its own. What’s the benefit from 2.5 to a 3.0 on a sand car. More tubes are obviously better but to what degree?
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Motion ratio comes into play a lot here. Most buggies are about 1:1 on the rear, so chopping that up into smaller bits won’t be as helpful as a canoe style trailing arm with 2:1 ish motion ratio. On a buggy, you’re adjusting only a couple of inches of travel. On a TT, it could be a foot with the motion ratios they run. 

 
@Grease Monkey and @Jtmoney714, you guys bring up a thought I was turning over the other day... my new car all said and done is estimated to be around 1650lbs.. One thing I notice when driving the newer funcos is the extra weight is in a lot of cases good because it carries the car through the bumps, even when in a slide.  Compared to my Gen 3, it took some extra effort to slide through the bumps... this car will be even lighter, and Is one of the unknowns I am eager to experience how it does. of coarse, I had a short car that slid extremely well and that only weighed 1000 lbs. suspension on that car was set up very well..

 
HP.Habits said:
@Grease Monkey and @Jtmoney714, you guys bring up a thought I was turning over the other day... my new car all said and done is estimated to be around 1650lbs.. One thing I notice when driving the newer funcos is the extra weight is in a lot of cases good because it carries the car through the bumps, even when in a slide.  Compared to my Gen 3, it took some extra effort to slide through the bumps... this car will be even lighter, and Is one of the unknowns I am eager to experience how it does. of coarse, I had a short car that slid extremely well and that only weighed 1000 lbs. suspension on that car was set up very well..
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It will be hard to overcome. Weight can be a feature in rough terrain because it forces the suspension to work rather than move the entire car. 

 
I added sxs internal bypass shocks to my buggy this off-season - 3.0's in the rear and 2.5's upfront...I'm really gambling and hoping it makes a huge difference.  The standard off-road internal bypass shocks don't come in a length that would work with my front setup (all were too long) - plus, they don't have the re-bound adjustments on them like the sxs shocks do.  For sxs's - on Fox's site - there's a PDF file that shows all the various measurements to help find one that works for your setup FWIW.

Point being - on a lightweight car these sure seem to be the great option.

image.png 

 
What make a car fast:

1. Driver

2. Driver

3. Driver

4. Suspension

5. Gear ratio's

6. Power to weight

7. Gearbox type (this coming from the gearbox guy)

Go to your local go kart track with your buddies to determine who is actually fast amongst the group. (A favorite activity of Weddle when we visit for PRI show in Indy. There have been more than a few crushed ego's based on lap times)

 
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