.

Going thru this positive test results with our family since Monday. My son the youngest (12) pretty much no symptoms,our daughter (16) aches and headache on Tuesday as well as the wife. I was good until this morning at 3am-ish when I woke up with aches,101.4* fever and sore throat. I’ll test again on Friday and hope to get this past us. 

 
Dunerking said:
Going thru this positive test results with our family since Monday. My son the youngest (12) pretty much no symptoms,our daughter (16) aches and headache on Tuesday as well as the wife. I was good until this morning at 3am-ish when I woke up with aches,101.4* fever and sore throat. I’ll test again on Friday and hope to get this past us. 
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if its the same thing we had its nothing to be worried about its like getting a weak flu

 
Crusty said:
My comment was based on unvaxxed getting taxed, my example is surcharges we all currently pay with our crappy medical insurance since Obama.

Are you saying the unvaxxed deserves to be taxed extra, because of their burden placed on our Healthcare system?
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That seems reasonable to me. I didn't make that decision for them, they did.

If they want to smoke, they should pay for the added expense of that as well.

If they are an addict, they should pay for rehab themselves. Name one logical reason why someone else should pay for their mistakes. Aside from the whole socialism thing.

I want a Tatum pre-runner. Are they going to pay for that? Maybe if I didn't have to pay for other people's mistakes, I could afford a more expensive sand rail. 

It's just like the whole free tuition/forgive the student loans thing. That's a typical socialist response - somebody else should pay for it. Charging other people for someone else's healthcare is the same socialist agenda. Everyone should pay their own bills.

I don't support socialism, period.

 
EmpirE231 said:
Got it! I took your "burden" quote as you insinuating that the un-vaxxed are causing a burden on the healthcare system. I stand corrected.

not vaxxed, and will not be.... and agree it should be a personal choice, and carry on with life.  Do not agree with any mandates.
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Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 

 
2 people called out this morning at work.  1 sick, 1 "thinks" they have covid.  Both are vaxxed and boosted and big proponents of mandates.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 
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Now what if vaxxed joe ends up in the ER due to heart inflammation, or neuropathy? 
 

should insurance pay for that, since he chose to get the vaccine?

what if you cartwheel your sand car and crushed a limb, and had to be air flighted? Should insurance pay for that’s since you took the risk driving a Sandcar at high speeds?

on most other things we can probably agree... but you’re losing me when you talk about vaxxed vs un vaxxed in relation to insurance. There are a lot of vaxxed people ending up on vents and dying... and some just having life changing adverse effects to the vaccine. 
 

my family has already had the Rona... my wife thought it was her seasonal allergies, I didn’t even know I had it, and one daughter had headaches. But somehow I should be penalized on my insurance premiums according to your thought process. 

 
I think forcing someone to get a vaccination (a medical procedure) should be absolutely illegal. This country was founded on our inalienable rights, and a vaccine mandate tramples on our 4th amendment rights, at the very least. It goes against the very foundation of what this country was founded on.

 
EmpirE231 said:
Now what if vaxxed joe ends up in the ER due to heart inflammation, or neuropathy? 
 

should insurance pay for that, since he chose to get the vaccine?

what if you cartwheel your sand car and crushed a limb, and had to be air flighted? Should insurance pay for that’s since you took the risk driving a Sandcar at high speeds?

on most other things we can probably agree... but you’re losing me when you talk about vaxxed vs un vaxxed in relation to insurance. There are a lot of vaxxed people ending up on vents and dying... and some just having life changing adverse effects to the vaccine. 
 

my family has already had the Rona... my wife thought it was her seasonal allergies, I didn’t even know I had it, and one daughter had headaches. But somehow I should be penalized on my insurance premiums according to your thought process. 
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No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...
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Well now you’re saying let’s get rid of insurance all together.... I can get behind getting rid of health insurance. That would actually bring the cost of health / medical related services wayyyy down. Ever since Obamacare was passed and insurance had become even more socialized.. costs have gone up and service quality has gone down. The original intent of insurance is for “transfer of risk” and you were not forced to  participate in that... so most people didn’t mind the “social net” of insurance because it was voluntary and reasonable in most cases.... and now we can thank Obamacare and government for ruining that. 

 
Aren't most of us after 65 yrs old on socialist medical insurance, it is called Medicare.  Fact is, whether you are vaxxed or not, when you end up in the hospital, we are all paying some way or another.  For the most part we are all in this together.  We are all paying for these shots as well, right out of our taxes.

FYI, don't jump on me, I'd rather pay for just me, screw you all.🤪

 
EmpirE231 said:
Well now you’re saying let’s get rid of insurance all together.... I can get behind getting rid of health insurance. That would actually bring the cost of health / medical related services wayyyy down. Ever since Obamacare was passed and insurance had become even more socialized.. costs have gone up and service quality has gone down. The original intent of insurance is for “transfer of risk” and you were not forced to  participate in that... so most people didn’t mind the “social net” of insurance because it was voluntary and reasonable in most cases.... and now we can thank Obamacare and government for ruining that. 
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Yes! My apologies for not originally expressing it correctly in the first place!

I read a story about a couple who had a baby in San Diego in the mid 2000's and it cost them $10,000 for average pre and post natal service.

They moved to Ensenada and got the same level of medical attention in terms of medical equipment, but more personalized attention because they saw the same doctor and nurse every trip. Identical medical care, but only $300 for the 2nd baby in Ensenada. Their point was, the added expenses in CA were not adding any value. The HMO expenses, malpractice insurance premiums and pharmaceutical companies gouging for medication in the US only - added all of that extra expense.

Obamacare did nothing to lower costs, it only increased them by forcing everyone to get insurance, so insurance went up. 

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...
Click to expand...


Lord of the Dunes said:
No, I did not say you should be penalized for what you posted.

If you choose not to get vaxxed, or a person who does get vaxxed, ends up in the hospital and it costs $350,000 to save their lives - why should other people pay for that? There's no logical reason for it.

I guess I'm arguing against health insurance. Those who are for it are hoping to spread their financial burden around. Those who are against it don't see any reason to pay for someone else's expenses. 

It's the first encroachment of creeping socialism. First they spread the insurance burden, then they spread the tuition burden, then the student loan burden, and the illegal alien burden, next we'll get taxed to stop global warming in the entire world-  oh wait...   they've already agreed to that...
Click to expand...
the whole problem with the vax is the drug company shares no liability I cant blame anyone for not want a vaccine that was rolled out in this fashion.   my family has a history of blood clots I will never get a vaccine that has a side effect of blood clots. I've seen first hand how bad a blood clot can be (not from the vax) in my 5 yr old sons brain and how different the treatment is from different hospitals 36hrs in the first hospital and billed 84k   3 week in children's hospital of Philadelphia (CHOP) bill cam to 124k 2 weeks in icu.  CHOP is a non profit teaching hospital one of the best in the country. there care was ten times better than the 1st hospital which was a level 1 trauma center but they care more about the money than the care. people have their reasons for not wanting to get vaxed this was first supposed to be a two shot deal now the are talking about a 4th booster its only been out a little over a year and a half are we supposed to become a vaccine dependent society. I feel that with every shot you get it chips away at your own body ability to create a immune response to the next dieses . I say stop already with this vaccine that hasn't really proven its self and get focused on creating a real and reliable treatment. that wont happen any time soon cause the drug company's stand to make a lot more selling vaccines to everyone and not only treating the ones that are sick.  

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 
Click to expand...
So your vaxxed and wear a mask in public to help stem off the current pandemic or no?

Simple question.

I'm not for Socialized Healthcare in any shape or form. I pay top dollar for PPO in that my family can choose the best Doctors, not some flunky that is assigned our healthcare account.

I agree that Drug Abuse, Smoking, Alcoholism, etc should not be paid for off the back of everyone else who made better life choices. Leave the guys who like McRibs Alone! Everyone has their vices, even the PPOG.

BUT....that's just how the world works. Your a submarine guy, there are plenty of rules or restrictions in place because somebody else made a dumb mistake. Pick any safety topic, somebody got killed or maimed and another entity had to step in to help us from ourselves :lol:

I support Darwin's Law, I support Capitalism and the Freedom to make your own choices...for better or worse.

IF this VAX was proven and the real science behind its effects made public...I might feel different about it.

Right now its against my personal choices.

We have 2 of 6 that are C-19 Positive right now today in my house...Trip to Philly this Friday is out. Bummer cause they can make a mean Cheese Steak 😞   I hope our experience is the same as everyone else that has had the Omicron, well except a fellow Hockey Coach from Rancho Cucamonga - Andy, he passed from C-19 this past weekend. (Big, Pre-Diab, etc)

 
Crusty said:
So your vaxxed and wear a mask in public to help stem off the current pandemic or no?

Simple question.

I'm not for Socialized Healthcare in any shape or form. I pay top dollar for PPO in that my family can choose the best Doctors, not some flunky that is assigned our healthcare account.

I agree that Drug Abuse, Smoking, Alcoholism, etc should not be paid for off the back of everyone else who made better life choices. Leave the guys who like McRibs Alone! Everyone has their vices, even the PPOG.

BUT....that's just how the world works. Your a submarine guy, there are plenty of rules or restrictions in place because somebody else made a dumb mistake. Pick any safety topic, somebody got killed or maimed and another entity had to step in to help us from ourselves :lol:

I support Darwin's Law, I support Capitalism and the Freedom to make your own choices...for better or worse.

IF this VAX was proven and the real science behind its effects made public...I might feel different about it.

Right now its against my personal choices.

We have 2 of 6 that are C-19 Positive right now today in my house...Trip to Philly this Friday is out. Bummer cause they can make a mean Cheese Steak 😞   I hope our experience is the same as everyone else that has had the Omicron, well except a fellow Hockey Coach from Rancho Cucamonga - Andy, he passed from C-19 this past weekend. (Big, Pre-Diab, etc)
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Yes, I'm vaxxed and wear a mask in public. I don't have anyone in my family to spread it to, but I still err on the side of caution to try not to spread the virus, even if some people feel there are risks associated with the vaccine. 

As was pointed out later in the thread, I'm against health insurance. It's just a form of socialism, the way it's being implemented.

 
I'm not vaxxed, don't wear a mask and maintain my same normal as I always have.  I have healthcare and don't pay for it, you all do.

So...suck it.   :lol:

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 
Click to expand...
Dave most likely caught Covid from Joe prior to him feeling sick.  Joe runs around like he's free and clear because he got jab'd.  However, he's now a super spreader because his diseased arrogant azz is allowed to move freely about, " 'cuz I'm triple vax'd".

Thanks, Joe...  You just infected over a dozen people.  3 of which died, all jab'd.  One had asthma, another type 1 diabetic, and the last had heart conditions from getting jab'd.  Thankfully Dave survived. Now all our premiums are going up.

Way to go Joe.

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
I read a story about a couple who had a baby in San Diego in the mid 2000's and it cost them $10,000 for average pre and post natal service.

They moved to Ensenada and got the same level of medical attention in terms of medical equipment, but more personalized attention because they saw the same doctor and nurse every trip. Identical medical care, but only $300 for the 2nd baby in Ensenada. Their point was, the added expenses in CA were not adding any value. The HMO expenses, malpractice insurance premiums and pharmaceutical companies gouging for medication in the US only - added all of that extra expense.
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Heath care in Mexico is subsidized. 

My ex FIL got stung by a ray in Rocky Point.  Ambulance ride to the hospital, Meds, etc.. $0

Another friend broke is wrist in RP.  Dr.'s visit, splint, meds. $0

 
Lord of the Dunes said:
Anyone who spends some period of time on a ventilator costs the healthcare system extra money. Let's say Joe gets vaxxed on his own and gets the next strain of Covid. It's mild, so he stays home and recovers from it.

Dave, on the other hand, doesn't feel it's necessary to stay healthy, wear a mask or get vaxxed. He gets a serious case of Covid and goes into the hospital and he eventually survives, but the hospital bill is $350,000. Due to the way insurance works, everyone else's premiums go up and Dave's decision ends up costing everyone else a part of their life savings. Repeat this often enough and you start to see a trend. People who don't know or care are costing other people who do care, real money.

Do you think CA should spend $2.3Trillion of taxpayer money to provide free healthcare to illegal aliens? We worked for that money, they didn't. If we wanted to give it to them, we would have on our own. I resent the gov't taking money out of my wallet to give to someone else who didn't earn it.

I feel the same way about an insurance company doing the same thing to pay for someone else's smoking habit, drug habit, or other bad choices. I didn't force them to do those things. Why should I be forced to pay for it? 
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The biggest contributor to death and health care costs including with covid patients is the rampant obesity in america. Cdc should be recommending treadmills not shots.

im healthy fit, and unvaxxed. Dont wear a mask. Had omicron between xmas and new year. Was a day of chills and mild high temp and i felt a little tired and i’ve cost the taxpayer nothing.

one size does  not fit all. Biggest effing problem with govt. they blanket everything.....health care, military jets, Welfare, time to vote less govt of all wings

 
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Kraut_n_Rice said:
Dave most likely caught Covid from Joe prior to him feeling sick.  Joe runs around like he's free and clear because he got jab'd.  However, he's now a super spreader because his diseased arrogant azz is allowed to move freely about, " 'cuz I'm triple vax'd".

Thanks, Joe...  You just infected over a dozen people.  3 of which died, all jab'd.  One had asthma, another type 1 diabetic, and the last had heart conditions from getting jab'd.  Thankfully Dave survived. Now all our premiums are going up.

Way to go Joe.
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Most likely?

:lol:

 
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