Wiring a sandcar

realtreeHD

Active member
Joined
Jun 19, 2021
Messages
210
Reaction score
126
Ok so it's almost time for me to wire everything on my car.  New Holley terminator x computer and harness should be here any day. 

I've done this once before, using solder and heatshrink.  Any recommendations for those that have tackled such a project?  Going to try and avoid butt connectors wherever possible.  I also hate electrical tape and that plastic wire loom.  Would like to see what others are using to make this as clean as possible. 

 
I found an expandable woven sheathing on Amazon, for the wiring. It comes in different colors and sizes, so you can color code systems. For instance, anything fuel related in one color, ignition another color, etc. It stays snug on the wiring, so you can shrink tube the ends. Very flexible. And solder is not usually recommended in high vibration areas. There are specific crimp connectors for this. No heat, except to shrink the outer cover. They are pricey, but worth it.

 
I think you're referring to something we called "snakeskin", woven, expandable nylon braided sheathing. The ends tend to fray, so we tucked it inside itself at the end and used heat shrink over that to keep it from fraying and it gave a nice finished appearance. It can also expand over connectors within reason, allowing us to put the snakeskin on the smaller branches after the harness was built.

I prefer to use one solid wire from end to end with a new pin, if necessary. If you must splice wires, these work well, provided they're fully shrunk. They're waterproof, give a good electrical connection and mechanically strong. We were allowed to use a version of these on Navy equipment. I prefer those over crimped connectors, since it's possible to over crimp the connector and sever the wire without seeing it.

https://www.amazon.com/TICONN-Connectors-Waterproof-Insulated-Electrical/dp/B07HCNTZ2Z/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=218B7SSTDHXOB&keywords=solder%2Bheat%2Bshrink%2Bconnectors&qid=1637296394&sprefix=solder%2Bheat%2Caps%2C223&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExSU1MVkZGUFkzUkdIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMjI0NjE3UDFBWVBJSlc0SzBXJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAxMzcxMTcxU1RSMDNBME5VQVQxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

 
Yes, LOTD, the snakeskin does fray. I just had to learn the trick of shrink tubing the ends. With practice, it works well. I agree with your non-crimp connectors. I think I just prefer that little extra crimp, for my "piece of mind", though. I STILL have to fight the urge to break out the soldering gun!

 
For best quality go with raychem dr-25 heat shrink as loom cover. The PET is cheap and looks good but doesn’t offer much for protection and will actually melt before the heat shrink if your not careful. I cover all branch joints, ends, and splices with raychem scl heat shrink, it comes in 4 foot sticks and shrinks down very firm with epoxy filling. As stated above solder is great for strength but not your friend in vibration environments. If you do solder try to do it under a branch joint that is secured with scl heat shrink. I use deutsch connectors almost always. They have 3 sizes dtm, dt, and dtp. Dtm is good for 7.5 amps and 18-22awg wire. Dt is good for 15 amps and accepts 14-20awg wire. Dtp is good for 25 amps and accepts 12-14awg. Message me if you have questions I do a lot of wiring.
 

852467D5-BAFA-4E6C-BE86-AE7B92049FA6.jpeg

590CE4BF-09C2-4D9C-9BBB-51EB3FC6FCBB.jpeg

FFCE011D-D757-40CF-98D4-952F23BC56CE.jpeg

7A330699-12E9-454C-B031-95145E51AB84.jpeg

B7CD9140-BDF6-486E-9254-40F13685E7D4.jpeg

90A7E6D7-640B-4EC7-B21A-C22D1BAD933F.jpeg

 
Last edited by a moderator:


this kind/quality/level of work amazes me.  I dont seem to have the patience for it.  but.... I dont do work for other folks any more, so Im the only person I have to please. 

on these projects where you use the abrasion sleeving, do you put the heatshrink under it or is that an either/or thing that is dependent on what the client wants for that project? 

Its been my experience that planning ahead has as much to do with abrasion issues as the products being used.  sometimes though, there is "just no good way to do that", so you do the best & "watch to make sure there are no issues down the line". 

Bob

 
For best quality go with raychem dr-25 heat shrink as loom cover. The PET is cheap and looks good but doesn’t offer much for protection and will actually melt before the heat shrink if your not careful. I cover all branch joints, ends, and splices with raychem scl heat shrink, it comes in 4 foot sticks and shrinks down very firm with epoxy filling. As stated above solder is great for strength but not your friend in vibration environments. If you do solder try to do it under a branch joint that is secured with scl heat shrink. I use deutsch connectors almost always. They have 3 sizes dtm, dt, and dtp. Dtm is good for 7.5 amps and 18-22awg wire. Dt is good for 15 amps and accepts 14-20awg wire. Dtp is good for 25 amps and accepts 12-14awg. Message me if you have questions I do a lot of wiring.
 

View attachment 18953

View attachment 18954

View attachment 18955

View attachment 18956

View attachment 18957

View attachment 18958
Very nice work.  Where do you buy your supplies from?  

 
where you use the abrasion sleeving, do you put the heatshrink under it or is that an either/or thing that is dependent on what the client wants for that project? 
Its usually an either or thing. The heat shrink cost a bit more than the PET stuff. Typical sandcar will be about $200 up to $500 just in the dr-25 where the PET is probably less than $50 in material. Heat shrink also takes alot longer.

I 'rope' all cars out and tag the ends and then build on a table with the template I made. I usually spend awhile on roping it out to make sure the routing and ways I branch make sense with the way the wires are going while paying attention to abrasion issues with moving parts or constantly serviced areas.

 
Its usually an either or thing. The heat shrink cost a bit more than the PET stuff. Typical sandcar will be about $200 up to $500 just in the dr-25 where the PET is probably less than $50 in material. Heat shrink also takes alot longer.

I 'rope' all cars out and tag the ends and then build on a table with the template I made. I usually spend awhile on roping it out to make sure the routing and ways I branch make sense with the way the wires are going while paying attention to abrasion issues with moving parts or constantly serviced areas.
And time is money, but Quality takes time.  Super simple math. 

 
Butt connector, covered in liquid electrical tape, 3M heatshring, and protective sheathing. Never done me wrong on any car, offroad car, or boat i've ever wired. And I use them in the harshest environments

 
If you can afford to have a Pro like @Travelah wire your car its worth it in the end. You can be assured everything will work and work season after season.  

If you can't,  then IMO just make sure you have a plan - draw EVERYTHING out before you start - know where everything goes and how it all connects - switches, fuses, breakers, connector types  and correct wire gauge.  Nothing is worse than forgetting something or using the wrong gauge wire  (and it happens alot)

The assembly process and materials are important especially for the long run as corrosion gets into every non "sealed or glued" connection - oxygen and wire just don't mix  Sealed crimp connections are easy and fast for most people. Solder and shrink (with sealing glue) doing it right is a skill and if you don't support the wire it could crack over time.

It takes a long time to do it right,so just label everything as you go  - even if its temp labeling with tape and marker - just to make sure you connect correctly.  

Materials wise that split tubing not what I would use, but iut way better than just running wires alonwe - it offers rub resistance. the PET STYLE wire cover is great but it holds sand.  I now heat shrink the entire harness  - clear if its over pet or black if its over wire, but make sure you "test the harness before you cover it or install it if possible.  Try to make it so the harness can be pout in in one piece or with connectors. But remember every connector is another possible failure point (especially if you have not assembled them correctly. The connectors I use (and @Travelah) use require special tools to assemble correctly  - I have over $500 just in assembly tools.  Sometimes alternative connectors are the way to go or even connectors with pigtails (not ideal but acceptable)

I will still use non stick harness tape on many cars  - if I know the harness id going to be subject to someone washing their car ot taking it out in rain  - the harness tape is actually more resistant  and cheap (budget)  if you do it right it looks good- otherwiser terminating PET correctly with shrink and boots is literally hundreds of dollars just for the boots.

I like Mil-spec harnesses, but for what we do its overkill baller stuff that buys you nothing over good best-practice harness builds

Making the harness, gauges, and other components easily removable is for move valuable. 

If you can use relays everywhere do it - thats a matter of choice - more to fail, but a guarantee things will work well when they work. Switches fdon't do well over time with high current. Also use sealed relays like HELLAs if you can - they do not have breathe like Bosch relays do and in the sand Bosch relays do fail

I use sealed 70Amp relays - cost more, never fail. Solid state relays like the MSD relay packs are good as well and easy for newbie wiring

Do not use relays with fuses built in - great idea  - crappy in real world - fuses get hot and fall out- always  -

I will never use Metripak relays  or Relay boards again - no matter the brand - they look great and are sealed, but cannot handle over 15amps in practice - I used them on a few cars and had to replace them within a year (expensive lesson) watching them melt when the fans come on with 40 amp relays is kinda depressing ..

I always tell people that car  batteries have enough current to weld  1/4" steel together - so be careful of shorts  - fuse everything .. and follow the rules the manufacturers give you - for instance Radios and ECUs need to go directly to the battery 

NEVER use copper clad wire - always use pure copper - believe me its not worth the money you save

And always use a main cut off switch that is easy to reach if you crash or flip -it could be a life saver

Most people get frustrated and just start cutting corners ...  But don't worry we don't keep these cars that long - its the next guys problem  🤪

Just some small ideas FWIW

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If you can afford to have a Pro like @Travelah wire your car its worth it in the end. You can be assured everything will work and work season after season.  

If you can't,  then IMO just make sure you have a plan - draw EVERYTHING out before you start - know where everything goes and how it all connects - switches, fuses, breakers, connector types  and correct wire gauge.  Nothing is worse than forgetting something or using the wrong gauge wire  (and it happens alot)

The assembly process and materials are important especially for the long run as corrosion gets into every non "sealed or glued" connection - oxygen and wire just don't mix  Sealed crimp connections are easy and fast for most people. Solder and shrink (with sealing glue) doing it right is a skill and if you don't support the wire it could crack over time.

It takes a long time to do it right,so just label everything as you go  - even if its temp labeling with tape and marker - just to make sure you connect correctly.  

Materials wise that split tubing not what I would use, but iut way better than just running wires alonwe - it offers rub resistance. the PET STYLE wire cover is great but it holds sand.  I now heat shrink the entire harness  - clear if its over pet or black if its over wire, but make sure you "test the harness before you cover it or install it if possible.  Try to make it so the harness can be pout in in one piece or with connectors. But remember every connector is another possible failure point (especially if you have not assembled them correctly. The connectors I use (and @Travelah) use require special tools to assemble correctly  - I have over $500 just in assembly tools.  Sometimes alternative connectors are the way to go or even connectors with pigtails (not ideal but acceptable)

I will still use non stick harness tape on many cars  - if I know the harness id going to be subject to someone washing their car ot taking it out in rain  - the harness tape is actually more resistant  and cheap (budget)  if you do it right it looks good- otherwiser terminating PET correctly with shrink and boots is literally hundreds of dollars just for the boots.

I like Mil-spec harnesses, but for what we do its overkill baller stuff that buys you nothing over good best-practice harness builds

Making the harness, gauges, and other components easily removable is for move valuable. 

If you can use relays everywhere do it - thats a matter of choice - more to fail, but a guarantee things will work well when they work. Switches fdon't do well over time with high current. Also use sealed relays like HELLAs if you can - they do not have breathe like Bosch relays do and in the sand Bosch relays do fail

I use sealed 70Amp relays - cost more, never fail. Solid state relays like the MSD relay packs are good as well and easy for newbie wiring

Do not use relays with fuses built in - great idea  - crappy in real world - fuses get hot and fall out- always  -

I will never use Metripak relays  or Relay boards again - no matter the brand - they look great and are sealed, but cannot handle over 15amps in practice - I used them on a few cars and had to replace them within a year (expensive lesson) watching them melt when the fans come on with 40 amp relays is kinda depressing ..

I always tell people that car  batteries have enough current to weld  1/4" steel together - so be careful of shorts  - fuse everything .. and follow the rules the manufacturers give you - for instance Radios and ECUs need to go directly to the battery 

NEVER use copper clad wire - always use pure copper - believe me its not worth the money you save

And always use a main cut off switch that is easy to reach if you crash or flip -it could be a life saver

Most people get frustrated and just start cutting corners ...  But don't worry we don't keep these cars that long - its the next guys problem  🤪

Just some small ideas FWIW
Excellent advice.

I used to wire cars on the side (done A LOT for members of this board in years past).

Like anything, there are more than 1 or 2 ways to skin a cat, and everyone has their own opinion.  For cost and frustration, I highly recommend the PET type wire covering (I always call it Chinese finger).  This is the most cost effective and readily available for the average guy.  I absolutely prefer the Reychem, but most guys can't/won't afford $10-20K wiring jobs for their play toys.  

I definitely agree with not soldering stuff....you will regret it in the long term.  PROPERLY crimped is important and will outlive other options.

Here is a few pics for examples and ideas.

IMAG1463.jpg

IMAG1200.jpg

IMG_3015.JPG

IMAG1001.jpg

296.JPG

 
Excellent advice.

I used to wire cars on the side (done A LOT for members of this board in years past).

Like anything, there are more than 1 or 2 ways to skin a cat, and everyone has their own opinion.  For cost and frustration, I highly recommend the PET type wire covering (I always call it Chinese finger).  This is the most cost effective and readily available for the average guy.  I absolutely prefer the Reychem, but most guys can't/won't afford $10-20K wiring jobs for their play toys.  

I definitely agree with not soldering stuff....you will regret it in the long term.  PROPERLY crimped is important and will outlive other options.
In our shop we only use the connectors with the heat shrink built in.  Like these.

https://www.waytekwire.com/item/31980/Molex-19164-0044-Perma-Seal-Butt-Connector-/

 
DR-25 and deutsch connectors is really the way to go, word of caution about the raychem heat shrink, you can put a lot more heat to it than you do to hardware store heat shrink and you have to in order to get the glue to melt properly. The issue is that regular automotive primary wire, the insulation will melt and that’s bad.   Aviation and milspec wire is expensive but makes a world of difference.  Another giant step towards reliability is to get away from switches, fuses and relays.   A good PDM and keypad is a lot more reliable than switches and relays an there’s no fuses.  If you overcurrent,  you can specify in programming the number of retries and time between retries.  But you’ll never be out in the dunes looking for a fuse.  

The other nice thing about a PDM is you setup the car and it will tell you that your light bar is using let.s say 19 amps.  Well you’re stuck with either a 20 or 25 amp fuse but with a PDM, just add 15, or 20% and sett then overcurrent limit to 23 amps    Now the overcurrent device doesn’t just protect the wire, it also offers some protection toD5D0D386-3C5E-49FD-B69C-B4A28FE8E2D7.jpeg8EADA4D0-0363-4723-AC17-A32BDF4E8DBA.jpeg289630DC-AA7E-4CC0-87F3-AB6BC730EA95.jpeg the equipment  

I’m just getting started wiring my car right now

 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is all great advice, thanks to everyone posting. I'm sure this will help us all in wiring tips and tricks. 

 
NEVER use copper clad wire - always use pure copper - believe me its not worth the money you save
For motorsports I would use TXL wire at minimum, and milspec (M22759) if you want to step it up. TXL has an operating temperature -40F - 257F while the milspec can handle up to 302F. TXL or M22759 wont melt when heat shrinking the raychem as someone else mentioned cheap wire will. The TXL has a softer insulation and can be stripped with generic wire strippers. The milspec has a ETFE insulation and is much firmer than TXL insulation. You will dull out your regular wire strippers with it very fast (I have over $500 in milspec wire strippers 🤑). TXL insulation is also thicker than the milspec and will produce a wider harness.

The milspec wire is super nice to work with when doing a full harness though, because it holds a memory better than the TXL. You can make a rats nets out of the TXL on long runs much quicker if your not careful. On a normal sandcar chassis wiring the price difference will be about $200 between TXL and M22759.

 
Back
Top