Supercharger intercooler

Looney Duner

Looney Duner

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This summer I'll be rebuilding my engine and adding a kenne bell 2.6 supercharger. I'd like to hear from the supercharger crowd, how big it your heat exchanger core? Is it just mounted in front of the radiator? Or separately with its own fans? Also curious about size vs boost, or size vs hp? I've done plenty of turbo systems, with air to air intercooler, but the water cooled stuff is new to me. So, what do you have? 

 
I will try to find a picture, but adding a air temp to the dash is a must,

Keeping the air cool depends on the compression of the motor and how much boost, more compression more chance of detonation unless you add more octane,  the last car we did the heat exchanger was half the size of the radiator with fans 

The whipples seem to run hotter than the Kennys,  not sure what piston clearance is in the motor so if it is not built for boost, max air temp should be 180 degrees,  if the motor is built for a supercharger than max can push the limit of our motors to 220 degrees, To push the 220 degrees, we use 110 octane or Meth,  Loose piston clearance with piston coatings, bearing coatings and a steel piston ring with coated 2nd ring,  Then a solid stainless intake with Inconel exhaust valves, 

 
I have done many SC installs and Updates  and especially KB's 

The first thing is if you are running e-85 just start by forgetting about upgrading the HE  - e-85 is the best intercooler out there  - you could probably remove the HE in the manifold and make more power due to the lack of restriction 

Race gas lets you run more than the safe 11lbs you can usually get away with on Pump but you still need a good heat exchanger ...

Running Pump, IMO there are a few factors you have to consider 

The first is that the heat exchanger under the 2.6 on an LS is very small for the sized of intake charge. KB made sacrifices to lower the  in order to fit in a street car ( even a Corvette  with  a hood bubble)/  I belive the total number of Sq inches in the heat exchanger calculates to 1/3 what is required to bring the charge  to NA IAT (INTAKE AIR TEMP) at 12,000PRM which is pretty typical running a 3.5" pulley  and stock lower pulley at 6,000RPM

Second is you can compensate to some extent with a bigger heat exchanger (water to water) in open air but you need to move the water pretty fast through intake Heat exchanger without having any cavitation of bubbles  But you also need to make sure the restriction on the external heat exchanger is minimal or you will  actually cause a higher set of IATs  and IAT is king in making consistent power and not detonating... so in  most cases the stock Bosch pump cannot keep up with too big an external Heat exchanger  - so you need to upgrade the pump or you are wasting your time, your money, and even your engine  if you are not careful

Lastly you Must do two things  and hopefully you already have this 1.  You need the stock KB expansion tank or one of the nice aftermarket tanks (I use the canton)  with a 16LB cap  and you need to run water wetter

Not all heat exchangers are created equally - just like a Turbo Intercooler pressure drop is really bad, but unlike an Intercooler you don't need a plate style Heat exchangers since no Boost is going through it -  So the best Heat exchanger is one that can keep the pressure and volume up.  So use 3/4" in and out and go wider rather than taller to allow the water to cool for a longer time before exiting back and  that means a better pump with more volume.  If you are not going to change the pump don't waste time with a bigger heat exchanger it will work worse . 

This is true for KB, Whipple has in general bigger Heat exchangers and Older Maggie's Like LRS's did as well they have Huge passages in the cooler. 

HP makes heat is the rule for NA,     for SC  Boost makes heat and more to the point Twin screw RPM makes heat.  A smaller SC is always more efficient, but always suffers from increased IATs  when you crank up the boost on a small manifold heat exchanger  you get lots of back pressure and  IATs gp wild

I usually set up cars with  Gauging the IATs and the MAT (Manifold air temp)  and usually a sensor on the external Heat exchanger and have proven out what I am saying here ( as has Jim Bell the guy who formed KB back in the day) 

 If I was going to upgrade yours, I would use if you can fit it and 30" wide 12" tall Heat exchanger or  (a Jeep radiator)  a Davis Craig DC 8160 Pump  and good set of spal shrouded fans that kick on at 160

and just burp the system in the expansion tank really well and run 40 percent max coolant and water wetter and that puppy will stay really cool and make good HP  (unless you pushing the boost past 11 Lbs on Pump)

Oh and keep the HE away from the radiator if you can - you never want heat soak from the radiator - IATS over 200 are no Bueno, but engines spike there all the time under acceleration

 
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CBR custom. 31” wide, 4” thick and 12” tall. Dedicated fans. 
I did 535 to the ground with my 2300 Maggie. 
13 lbs of boost. 
I have not seen IAT over 115 this season  I am very happy with this setup  

I ran a smaller unit with my 1.7L Maggie and a smaller pump  I would see 150 Intake temps with that, so this setup is much better  

IMG_0431.jpeg

 
lincster said:
CBR custom. 31” wide, 4” thick and 12” tall. Dedicated fans. 
I did 535 to the ground with my 2300 Maggie. 
13 lbs of boost. 
I have not seen IAT over 115 this season  I am very happy with this setup  

I ran a smaller unit with my 1.7L Maggie and a smaller pump  I would see 150 Intake temps with that, so this setup is much better  

View attachment 92749
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THat suggestion is decent if the pump is upgraded ...Keep in mind that Twin screw and Roots superchargers work in completely different ways and heat the charge differently (efficiency)  Twin screws like the KB and and Whipple compress the charge in the SC  and send the compressed charge into the manifold where as the Maggie (roots) just pump air into the manifold where its compressed.  The Roots is far more efficient at lower RPM and make good low end torque because they don't heat the charge as much, but as you spin the Roots blower faster they produce way more heat so thats why in every graph they fall off way faster i power than a Twin screw that maintain essentially the same heat in the charge from 2000RPM to redline - so you have to move more water at lower RPM with a Twin screw  than you do with a Roots since you cannot eliminate the heat soak (power fall off) with a Roots.  The real way you will know your heat exchanger is working well is when you do a "hot dyno"  and you see a Flat TQ curve from 2000-2500 right to the cross over point 5252 RPM   if you have that your IAT's are in line.  After all HP is just a calculation of Torque x RPM/ 5252  so a flat TQ curve on an SC tells you everything is working roight and its why we do SC over NA engines  IMO

 
Fullthrottleguy said:
THat suggestion is decent if the pump is upgraded ...Keep in mind that Twin screw and Roots superchargers work in completely different ways and heat the charge differently (efficiency)  Twin screws like the KB and and Whipple compress the charge in the SC  and send the compressed charge into the manifold where as the Maggie (roots) just pump air into the manifold where its compressed.  The Roots is far more efficient at lower RPM and make good low end torque because they don't heat the charge as much, but as you spin the Roots blower faster they produce way more heat so thats why in every graph they fall off way faster i power than a Twin screw that maintain essentially the same heat in the charge from 2000RPM to redline - so you have to move more water at lower RPM with a Twin screw  than you do with a Roots since you cannot eliminate the heat soak (power fall off) with a Roots.  The real way you will know your heat exchanger is working well is when you do a "hot dyno"  and you see a Flat TQ curve from 2000-2500 right to the cross over point 5252 RPM   if you have that your IAT's are in line.  After all HP is just a calculation of Torque x RPM/ 5252  so a flat TQ curve on an SC tells you everything is working roight and its why we do SC over NA engines  IMO
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I have a good pump and my torque did exactly what u r describing. 
My torque hit 530 at 2100 rpm and held that until about 5400rpm. 
I am happy with my setup and is great for duning. 

 
Mine is right infront of the radiator.  Spaced out about an inch from the fins of the radiator.  I have foam in-between the two to keep the air flow straight through.  Alper 416 with a 2.9 Whipple.  I have seen temps as high as 130 but thats it.  It stays really cool.  

Fans will only depend on how you mount it.  I dont have fans but have great airflow and seems to work great.  Going on season 2 with my setup.   Dual pass bar aluminum.  Heavy duty and will take some serious heat.  Its 3" wide so it takes alot to get it warm.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ME5S4HK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

My setup looks almost exactly like LRS just mounts a bit different.

 
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