SUPERCHARGER BOOST NOT WHAT IT USE TO BE?

SANDFORME

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LS 425 with a Whipple 4.0. I use to have 9-10lbs. End of last year noticed power down and boost was almost none existent.

I found a tear in a rubber boot where the boost line from the gauge tee's into supercharger and fuel regulator. I replaced the boot and checked the lines as best I could.

I only see around 5 lbs now. Anyone have any Ideas on what's going on?

Much appreciated.

 
LS 425 with a Whipple 4.0. I use to have 9-10lbs. End of last year noticed power down and boost was almost none existent.

I found a tear in a rubber boot where the boost line from the gauge tee's into supercharger and fuel regulator. I replaced the boot and checked the lines as best I could.

I only see around 5 lbs now. Anyone have any Ideas on what's going on?

Much appreciated.
Never mind. Read the post wrong. 

 
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Unless you "inhaled" something that went through the SC - they don't "get loose" 

The most common issue is a bad boost gauge

The second most common issue is bad Bypass valve that is not closing -  The Bypass is SUPER critical on Twin screw .. if it hangs closed on idle you will literally FRY the SC,  Then best practice I tell everyone I do an SC for is to always look at the bypass to make sure its open at start.  Since it run off engine vacuum you should make sure the line to it is good  - if its hanging open the boost is possibly leaking - if you actually closes on start up the diaphragm is probably good - but you should acheck all that periodically. Its also good to have the boost line separate from the bypass vacuum sense - that should be dedicated. 

Third most common is a slipping belt - Belts age, stretch and come loose. Whipples are not very efficient - they take more HP than any other SC to turn, the 4,0 takes well over 100HP even at mild boost, so it hard on the belts, especially if you are on and off the gas alot. Best practice change belts every season and check tension 2x a year.  If anything was bad like an idler of tensioner the SC would throw the belt - thats the only reason other than  alignment (which never changes) that it will throw a belt

I am assuming you don't have an ECU that does data logging or lets you read the MAP sensor.

The MAP will tell your the "real" boost and a data log will tell you everything else such as slipping belt  or slow bypss etc.

Lastly a Boost leak is a pretty typical cause of low boost - so any line on the Pressure side of the manifold, or anything loose on the bypass.  If you had a bad gasket or something like that the idle would be noticeably bad.

Of course anything mechanical in the engine will cause that too - leaky valves, flat cam etc. But you would likely notice bad idle, hard starting (un even when it cranks - hard to describe) and general bad operation ...

Its likely 1,2,or 3

 
Unless you "inhaled" something that went through the SC - they don't "get loose" 

The most common issue is a bad boost gauge

The second most common issue is bad Bypass valve that is not closing -  The Bypass is SUPER critical on Twin screw .. if it hangs closed on idle you will literally FRY the SC,  Then best practice I tell everyone I do an SC for is to always look at the bypass to make sure its open at start.  Since it run off engine vacuum you should make sure the line to it is good  - if its hanging open the boost is possibly leaking - if you actually closes on start up the diaphragm is probably good - but you should acheck all that periodically. Its also good to have the boost line separate from the bypass vacuum sense - that should be dedicated. 

Third most common is a slipping belt - Belts age, stretch and come loose. Whipples are not very efficient - they take more HP than any other SC to turn, the 4,0 takes well over 100HP even at mild boost, so it hard on the belts, especially if you are on and off the gas alot. Best practice change belts every season and check tension 2x a year.  If anything was bad like an idler of tensioner the SC would throw the belt - thats the only reason other than  alignment (which never changes) that it will throw a belt

I am assuming you don't have an ECU that does data logging or lets you read the MAP sensor.

The MAP will tell your the "real" boost and a data log will tell you everything else such as slipping belt  or slow bypss etc.

Lastly a Boost leak is a pretty typical cause of low boost - so any line on the Pressure side of the manifold, or anything loose on the bypass.  If you had a bad gasket or something like that the idle would be noticeably bad.

Of course anything mechanical in the engine will cause that too - leaky valves, flat cam etc. But you would likely notice bad idle, hard starting (un even when it cranks - hard to describe) and general bad operation ...

Its likely 1,2,or 3
Always chiming in with some great experienced based Knowledge. Thanks

 
Unless you "inhaled" something that went through the SC - they don't "get loose" 

The most common issue is a bad boost gauge

The second most common issue is bad Bypass valve that is not closing -  The Bypass is SUPER critical on Twin screw .. if it hangs closed on idle you will literally FRY the SC,  Then best practice I tell everyone I do an SC for is to always look at the bypass to make sure its open at start.  Since it run off engine vacuum you should make sure the line to it is good  - if its hanging open the boost is possibly leaking - if you actually closes on start up the diaphragm is probably good - but you should acheck all that periodically. Its also good to have the boost line separate from the bypass vacuum sense - that should be dedicated. 

Third most common is a slipping belt - Belts age, stretch and come loose. Whipples are not very efficient - they take more HP than any other SC to turn, the 4,0 takes well over 100HP even at mild boost, so it hard on the belts, especially if you are on and off the gas alot. Best practice change belts every season and check tension 2x a year.  If anything was bad like an idler of tensioner the SC would throw the belt - thats the only reason other than  alignment (which never changes) that it will throw a belt

I am assuming you don't have an ECU that does data logging or lets you read the MAP sensor.

The MAP will tell your the "real" boost and a data log will tell you everything else such as slipping belt  or slow bypss etc.

Lastly a Boost leak is a pretty typical cause of low boost - so any line on the Pressure side of the manifold, or anything loose on the bypass.  If you had a bad gasket or something like that the idle would be noticeably bad.

Of course anything mechanical in the engine will cause that too - leaky valves, flat cam etc. But you would likely notice bad idle, hard starting (un even when it cranks - hard to describe) and general bad operation ...

Its likely 1,2,or 3
Thanks for the info. My car is not at home to look at it until I head back to Glamis.

How can you tell if the Bypass is open or closed?

I did replace the belt and tensioner at the beginning of the season.

I have a mefi 4b I believe....I dont know if they do data logging?

The idle is good and it always starts right up. The engine runs well but just not the same power as it use to be. Ever since I noticed the lower boost pressure.

 
Thanks for the info. My car is not at home to look at it until I head back to Glamis.

How can you tell if the Bypass is open or closed?

I did replace the belt and tensioner at the beginning of the season.

I have a mefi 4b I believe....I dont know if they do data logging?

The idle is good and it always starts right up. The engine runs well but just not the same power as it use to be. Ever since I noticed the lower boost pressure.
Depending on your "kit" on the 4.0 the bypass should be located on the left side looking the SC from the pulley  - it will be a little black plastic "can"  on the bottom of the SC where it meets the manifold on the back side just above the end of the fuel rail - the can will have a vacuum line going to it and  the "actuator will be going into the manifold  - it should be a gold arm and rod 1.4" or 5/16" if I remember correctly, and you will see it move when you start the car  -  I test the diaphragms by either sucking on the line and making sure it holds vacuum or the more civilized manner using a hand held vacuum pump  - it should move to a closed position when no vacuum  - you can push on the arm  with the car not running and it should only move in one direction not the other - meaning its normally closed, vacuum opens it (idle)-  the idea is boost pushes and holds it shut-  It can get dirty and gummed up  if you are not running a catch can breather  and oil is getting forced into the manifold (pretty common) and it hangs oepn and you lose boost 

Did you check the belt tension when you installed it?  if its a 10 Rib  it should have 3/8- 1/2' PLAY (PUSH THE BELT IN AND IT SHOULD MOVE 3/8 before the tensioner tightens)

The MEFI is a good basic ECU the 4B is boost referenced thats good - no data logs, but uses a MAP, but no easy way to read it - its basically "set and forget"

A good idle and easy start tell a lot, so likely decent spark plugs and none are loose (I have seen that lot on blown cars actually)

You probably are not checking your fuel pressure either - it should rise with boost  - the other reason you don't want a boost leak and you want all your lines dedicated.  Low fuel pressure easy way to put a hole in a piston ...

It's likely still the bypass or a line or a gauge (down on power could be something else like plugs).  you can check when you get to the car - easier with 2 people checking. 

I forgot how much easier this is to troubleshoot with a modern ECU like  Holley 🙂

 
Great info @Fullthrottleguy. My Magnacharger MP122H is supposed to make 10psi but I had superchargersonline.com in Simi Valley, CA rebuild it and they said there were some knicks and it would only make 7-8psi. I have a MEFI 4A tuned by Redline and they said it made 5-6psi on their mechanical gauge when they tuned it last season. 

 
Make sure the gage is actually reading correctly. 
I’ve had several go bad. 

 
Like stated above,  we have a whipple with the bypass lever installed wrong, also have had the air-pot go bad on the by pass,  Did you check the vacuum hose to the bypass hose, if it has a leak or cracked, under boost it might not be completely closed, 

 
Great info @Fullthrottleguy. My Magnacharger MP122H is supposed to make 10psi but I had superchargersonline.com in Simi Valley, CA rebuild it and they said there were some knicks and it would only make 7-8psi. I have a MEFI 4A tuned by Redline and they said it made 5-6psi on their mechanical gauge when they tuned it last season. 
The roots (Eaton Gen 3 and earlier) blowers like the Maggie are more susceptible to damage from even a little sand getting them. the rotors are almost straight and roots style blowers make boost by compressing air in the manifold, that why they are noisier (not the whine, thats the gears) and they surge.  The twin screws actually "screw" the air and make boost in the blower and push boosted air into the manifold  - its why they are more efficient and why they require a working bypass.   both SC's have same effect, the twins just heat the air less. The Maggie  rotors  are coated and some of the MP112s had a very thick coating to get them to pass boost testing, the cast housings were well ... not so great , and those SC's make boost by compressing the air between the rotors and the case.and the coating wears off.  If you tighten them wrong - not torque them down in a X pattern or use and impact, they would scrape the rotors on the case.  (GM 671's did the same thing) The rebuilders hone the coating off and re-coat the inside of the blower case and rotors - it lasts 10,000 miles and sometimes more. The 122H is a high Helix (slightly twisted rotor package (actually its the prototype for the Eaton TVS rotor design)  still coated but way better.  Awesome Blower for a stock 5.3 or  LS1 if you can find one, but as the coating wears and some of the rebuilders leave them loose, they lose boost and if you spin them faster they make so much heat its not worth doing.  Twin screws are hard anodized and tight clearances to the case are less critical.  they make boost between the rotors so rotor to rotor clearance is critical. The Whipples are Cast housings but way nicer inside and new ones have billet rotors , and Kenne Bells are Billet housings and Billet rotors they are dimensionally so tight you can't put a hair between the rotors. I Pulled a KB 2,8 off a turnkey LS2 from 2006 that had 100's of trips on it, and brought it to KB for new Bearing and seals, they put it on the blower test dyno before and after  - no change in boost it was in spec. Nice product. 

 
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This is all great info guys and much appreciated. I will take a closer look next time Im out. I will look at everything and get back.

 
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