Spindles--Why is this, and which is good...?

[Jammer75]

I bent my spindle which is the one that has the long blot that goes down trough the spindle itself(see pic). They measure 8.5" from the middle of the top heim to the middle of the lower heim.  I have a pair of what seems to be Tatum spindles of the same sort although they only measure about 6 3/4" (why shorter?) from middle of top to middle of bottom heim. I assume I could use these as long as I extend the top heim out to make up for the angle difference..??

The more common spindle is the https://www.appletreeauto.com/a-arm-spindles-combo-bearing-left-and-right/?gclid=CjwKCAiA9tyQBhAIEiwA6tdCrO92Bqnb5UMtIj-o1UYLFW6Yl3pVwT45_lllAAYabZ0uK_05MqVwKBoCt1QQAvD_BwE  which all of these styles seemed to be 8.5" from center to center on heim. Should I go with a new set like these (are the kartek ones better? all seem to be tig welded..?)

Should I stick with the "Tatum" ones and adjust the top heim out to match the wheel angle of the 8.5"..?

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

Your pictures and text don't tell the same story.

It's possible the painted ones intend for the bottom heim to NOT be inline with the spindle.

 

[Jammer75]

Your pictures and text don't tell the same story.

It's possible the painted ones intend for the bottom heim to NOT be inline with the spindle.

Not sure I understand. 

See pics. Seem exactly the same except for the “Tatum” one length is 1 1/4 in shorter than original. 
With original my wheel is pretty much straight up and down so I guess if I was to use the “Tatum” ones I would need to lengthen (unscrew) the top heim till I get that same angle on front wheel. 
 

Does this change a lot on the a-arm/tierod geometry? My Top heim was screwed all the way in with the originals, how far can I safely unscrew the heim to take up the angle difference?
Being shorter and welded all the way up the shaft seems to be a strong/stronger set up. 
 

On the same note. If I was to use these “Tatum” spindles the lower heim joint with the misalignment spacers is 1.75” and so is the spindle or so (it doesn’t fit). Should I sand down the spacers to fit nice or go with a shorter misalignment spaces (not sure how the lengths work on them) then add washers to take up the spacers?

Thanks  for all help and input 

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

Your "geometry" will be way different.  Threading the rod end out more isn't going to make up the difference.  The relation to the distance of the upper and lower arm attachment points at the inner point and outer dictate whether it will work well or be shitty (or even collapse).  Your spindle end pivot distance(between rod end centers) needs to be greater than the inner pivot center.

 

[Jammer75]

Your "geometry" will be way different.  Threading the rod end out more isn't going to make up the difference.  The relation to the distance of the upper and lower arm attachment points at the inner point and outer dictate whether it will work well or be shitty (or even collapse).  Your spindle end pivot distance(between rod end centers) needs to be greater than the inner pivot center.

Ok  so my inner upper and lower measurement is 8” so, using the “Tatum” spindles that measure 7.5” would mess up the camber through the range…? 

So I should go with these (pictures) as I can’t find any thing similar to what I have?

And if so are the $600/pair kartek ones any stronger than the $300/pair apple tree auto ones..??

https://www.kartek.com/parts/kartek-off-road-driver-side-tig-welded-heavy-duty-a-arm-combo-link-buggy-or-sand-rail-spindle.html

https://www.appletreeauto.com/a-arm-spindles-combo-bearing-left-and-right/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAmeKQBhDvARIsAHJ7mF6nXHgpFB9RwHLButth2CNZpNw7M9mE3ZRJuwiQNqg8jP1POpGgGDQaAgcVEALw_wcB

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

It could mess up the camber enough that the upper arm and spindle pivot would fold onto the lower when drooped enough.

I'm no suspension wizard, but you do not want your inner pivot distance GREATER than the outer.  I also wouldn't get hung up on the painted ones being """Tatum""" and them being better...

Spindle wise...Without having them in hand, the difference in the Kartek and Appletree spindles might just be the weld process.  TIG vs MIG.  The Appletree ones are probably stronger than your front suspension parts, and will allow you to add front brakes. 

 

[Jammer75]

It could mess up the camber enough that the upper arm and spindle pivot would fold onto the lower when drooped enough.

I'm no suspension wizard, but you do not want your inner pivot distance less than the outer.  I also wouldn't get hung up on the painted ones being """Tatum""" and them being better...

Spindle wise...Without having them in hand, the difference in the Kartek and Appletree spindles might just be the weld process.  TIG vs MIG.  The Appletree ones are probably stronger than your front suspension parts, and will allow you to add front brakes. 

Thanks. I will order the apple tree ones.  Also happier to go this way as it seems to be a more common set up. 
 

Gonna remove the shock and install the “Tatum” spindle though to cycle it through the motion and see how much it articulates. 
 

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

Thanks. I will order the apple tree ones.  Also happier to go this way as it seems to be a more common set up. 
 

Gonna remove the shock and install the “Tatum” spindle though to cycle it through the motion and see how much it articulates. 
 

I didn't get my last post in order.  You want your outer pivot distance to be GREATER than your inner.  You having an 8" inner, and the silver spindles being under 7" is bad...

 

[Jammer75]

I didn't get my last post in order.  You want your outer pivot distance to be GREATER than your inner.  You having an 8" inner, and the silver spindles being under 7" is bad...

I understood.  Thanks and now I understand. 
 

although come to think of it. On the inner measurement it is exactly 8” center bolt to center and on the spindle (“Tatum”lol) side middle of upper to middle of lower heim is 9.25” so the outer pivot would be greater than the inner just not as much as the originals (at 10.75”)

thoughts?

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

My Solidworks license is up...  :thirsty1:

 

[Kevin]

i used this to learn and see what changes i made in dimensions would do wit my car..  https://www.racingaspirations.com/apps/suspension-geometry-calculator/

 

[Jammer75]

i used this to learn and see what changes i made in dimensions would do wit my car..  https://www.racingaspirations.com/apps/suspension-geometry-calculator/

That's Rad. Thanks

 

[Jammer75]

Got the new (style) spindles on. The only thing was, I had to remove the tie rod jam nuts to get my toe set correctly.  Gonna weld on an extension to the other (spare-gray) spindles to match the height of the originals so I will have still have spares.  Gonna try out the new spindles this weekend.

 

[Kraut_n_Rice]

With no jam nut you will likely rip the threads out.  The threaded surfaces are not tight to each other.  Hand tight will be loose quickly.  There will be movement and they "bounce" back and forth between thread faces.  In a very short time it pull out as the threads will be gone.  Cut both ends back and use jam nuts

 

[Jammer75]

With no jam nut you will likely rip the threads out.  The threaded surfaces are not tight to each other.  Hand tight will be loose quickly.  There will be movement and they "bounce" back and forth between thread faces.  In a very short time it pull out as the threads will be gone.  Cut both ends back and use jam nuts

I did secure them temporarily. Everything worked great and thanks for the tip was gonna thin out the jam nut but I like taking a little off each end of the tie rod better.